DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Repeal and Replace IV

So you don't have the option of buying any type of health insurance you want because of the ACA?

And then there's that pesky auto insurance they make you buy.

I don't have the option of not buying ACA or some type of insurance. Can anyone explain why 9 million are on ACA yet 20 million will loose insurance?

Very good point Pitt, however that can be explained.

You see, me, you, or anyone else driving an automobile presents a physical and harmful risk to someone else. Thus the reason that can be mandated. If someone does not buy insurance, it is not causing physical harm to anyone else but yourself. That's the difference.

Because of the expansion in medicaid. Many people below the poverty level now qualify for medicaid. I'm not sure where your outrage is over auto insurance.

You need to understand that in life, Financial success is judged on how much wealth you have created and not on how many Goats you own.

So you are a parent that wants to be able to have ability to opt out of buying Healthcare Insurance for his family and self, as you say if you don't want it and not pay the penalty tax. And if you chose to opt out and not pay the penalty tax that would be irresponsible IMO.



No they can't. They can charge you a penalty tax each year if you don't get the minimum HCI. But they can't force you to purchase anything.

What AHC state exchange is your plan in? I have great contacts at United Health Care. I can help you if you have questions.

I am not outraged over auto insurance, I think either you misread or I didn't type clearly(which can happen on a message board).

I am saying that because of the risk factor of causing bodily harm to others, that mandating auto insurance is allowed. Notice how you are only mandated to have liability on a vehicle by the government?

Not buying health insurance causes no physical harm to anyone - thus should not be mandated.

Huh? I assume you meant that for someone else, right?

12 million signed up in 2016 13 mil signed up in 2017 alone. Not sure how many in 2015 but you see the numbers grow year by year.

We are talking about health insurance as a whole, yet you want to use one particular case to make your point, doesn't work that way. Nice try tho, keep up the faux outrage.

You see in this country we have rights, and the right to be irresponsible is everyones right. Who is to say what is and what isn't responsible, godly Spiral I take it. All hail ...whats the last part of that again?

By fining you for not purchasing something is forcing you buy it yes. So if they passed a law that said you either have to pay a fine or purchase Trump rally tickets, you would be ok with that?

I have private insurance that I and my company pay for. Not that its your business.

so there are a lot of people that would choose not to have it and the left uses those people to claim they are "losing" when in fact they are choosing.

Whatever, millions of Americans will lose health care coverage, and many will die if you guys get what you want. People like you will dance with joy in the streets over the calamity of others.

Oh yeah what state AHC exchange did you say you were on again?

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No answer? You're probably not on a AHC plan. No surprise. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people can complain so much about things that have very little effect on their lives, and could care less how it could adversely effect the lives of millions of other American's.

Oh if needed, I would take advice from some people on this board. But not some braggart who is trying to impress people on a message board. Those type of people are usually FOS.

Actually they're very similar. When an uninsured driver gets into a traffic accident, the insured drivers insurance company picks up most of the cost. Those costs are directly passed on to insured drivers. So while you are correct about physical harm, the financial part is the same for both.

I mean if you get into an auto accident, you better have healthcare, right?

Yes, they would be choosing to be uninsured and pass their healthcare costs onto those who are insured. Just like uninsured drivers would do if their insurance wasn't mandated.

Not if you have auto insurance There's an option for that

So you're not cool with uninsured drivers passing costs onto you, but your fine with sick people doing it. I got it.

Sounds just like the rationale folks use to denigrate welfare recipients as 'freeloaders' and 'takers.'

Well they tend to pick and choose as to when it suits their desires.

Just like the confederate statues. The right always rails for states rights and the rights of local government. They're doing it right now when it comes to healthcare. But those confederate statues are being removed by local elected officials.

They're being removed by politicians that were elected by their voters. Yet somehow suddenly that's a bad thing. So this entire, "state and local governments rights" thing is a a pick and choose when you support it and when you don't.

That's another point, however do you know that is what the MAJORITY of those voters in those cities and states want - was there a vote to remove them or was it a small few protesting and they simply are removing them to placate the louder side? You assume because an official removed it that's what the voters wanted. Well they were not an issue at the election time, so maybe that official wouldn't be in power if that was their intent. That's a thought you cannot quantify or prove - either way actually - unless there is a vote and it is tallied.

And talking about picking and choosing - its ok for the left to pick and choose but when the right does it its hypocritical IE, the left wants government control, but is for the right choose abortion. See, theres an issue both sides are hypocritical on

Nope, just the ones that use it to free load and take See you can differentiate the two.

J/C

Just heard that Sen McCain denounced the new, newer, newest Trumpcare bill. Dashing the hopes of the republicans who just want a victory at any cost.

Yep, looks like it is over again.

Well at least you still have Obamacare.

30mil+ American's and counting can rest a bit easier. I buy insurance through my work for now.

300 million Americans still sweat it out.

Are those the same numbers that said ACA was going to lower the cost of healthcare altogether? Was it the same department that said IRAQ had WMDs.

Don't we have to pass it before we know whats in it?

On a personal level I'm against abortion. In case you missed it, that's for the SCOTUS to decide. And right now the deck is stacked in favor of overturning abortion.

That's why you can't put people in tight little boxes. There are moderate Republicans and right wing Republicans. The same goes for Democrats. When we try to say they are all the same is when we lose sight of reality.

Yet there are parts of the right who claim to be superior. You know, party of family values, the religious right, the moral majority. When people make such claims and label themselves this way, it sets them up for people to expect more from them than others.

Then when they suddenly compare themselves on equal footing with people they claim to be better than, it kind of takes the wind out of their sails.

I agree, however like my point was to just show that both sides do it. So to try and label one side of doing it and not the other, is where my post was coming from.

I really don't want to get into abortion issue, as that's an entirely separate thread that will need about 50 different pages to reach no decisive conclusion.

Here's the latest:

McCain to oppose Graham-Cassidy, likely sinking Obamacare repeal
'I cannot in good conscience vote for the Graham-Cassidy proposal,' he says.
By SEUNG MIN KIM, BURGESS EVERETT and JENNIFER HABERKORN 09/22/2017 01:57 PM EDT Updated 09/22/2017 02:34 PM EDT

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) announced Friday that he would oppose the latest Obamacare repeal measure, dealing a major blow to the legislation’s prospects of getting 50 votes on the Senate floor next week.

“I cannot in good conscience vote for the Graham-Cassidy proposal. I believe we could do better working together, Republicans and Democrats, and have not yet really tried," McCain said in a statement.

The legislation, drafted by GOP Sens. Bill Cassidy of Louisiana and South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham — McCain’s closest friend in the Senate — is the Senate GOP’s last best chance at passing a bill dismantling the Affordable Care Act before a Sept. 30 deadline. But conservative Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky has already announced his opposition to the Graham-Cassidy bill — shredding the plan to reporters, in op-eds and through Twitter. And moderate Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, who is already viewed as a hard "no" on the measure, said at an event in her home state Friday that she is "leaning against" Graham-Cassidy , according to the Portland Press-Herald.

Senate Republicans, who hold a 52-seat majority in the chamber, can only lose two votes and still pass the repeal measure. GOP Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska has also remained a key holdout on Graham-Cassidy, which is uniformly opposed by Senate Democrats.

Aides to Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has said he intends to hold a vote on Graham-Cassidy next week in the Senate. His office did not immediately respond to questions about whether he will hold the vote next week despite McCain’s opposition.

The Senate Finance Committee, for now, has not changed plans to hold a hearing on the Graham-Cassidy bill on Monday.

In a lengthy statement Friday, McCain reiterated concerns about the process in which the legislation was drafted that he laid out in July when he voted against another Obamacare repeal plan.

McCain said he could not support the bill "without knowing how much it will cost, how it will effect insurance premiums, and how many people will be helped or hurt by it. Without a full CBO score, which won’t be available by the end of the month, we won’t have reliable answers to any of those questions.”

“I take no pleasure in announcing my opposition. Far from it,” he continued. “The bill’s authors are my dear friends, and I think the world of them. I know they are acting consistently with their beliefs and sense of what is best for the country. So am I.”

Senate Republicans failed on their last Obamacare repeal attempt in July when McCain, Murkowski and Collins teamed up to tank the so-called "skinny repeal" plan.

But unlike then, it’s not clear whether McConnell could even open debate on the bill this time. More than a half-dozen senators were not committal or non-responsive to inquiries Friday about how they would vote for the motion to proceed to the House-passed repeal bill.

However, even though Paul opposes the Graham-Cassidy proposal, he is undecided on the procedural vote, an aide said. Paul wants to vote again on fully repealing Obamacare with no replacement. Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) is also undecided on both the procedural vote and the Graham-Cassidy product.

Republicans had been scrambling to make good on their seven-year campaign pledge to repeal Obamacare by Sept. 30, when their fast-track legislative authority to pass a bill with only a simple majority votes will expire. After the end of the month, repeal legislation would need 60 votes.

The GOP wants to use the procedure, called reconciliation, next year to pass tax reform. But the Obamacare failure could spur some in the party to try to revisit repeal.

In the latest repeal effort, Republicans have tried desperately to win over Murkowski in particular.

The Graham-Cassidy bill allowed Alaska and a handful of other states with low population density to potentially opt out of the law’s significant cuts to Medicaid until 2026. It’s unclear whether that provision would have been enough to address Murkowski’s concern that Alaskans would have less access to health care under the bill.

Politico

Rand Paul has been bashing it endlessly on Twitter.

Looks like he wins.

McCain once again saving the GOP from themselves.

And saved Obamacare for all!

McCain seems to only vote NO because Trumps name is attached. He never disagreed with the bill, just the "process" - which is code for "you said bad things about me, ill show you"

Regardless of which side of the fence you fall on the issue - that is no way to govern. He should be doing voting what his constituents put him in office for - not ticky tack things like that. I would think you would even agree on that statement - as it should apply to both parties.

I see it a little differently. This is the exact same process that got us into the Obamacare mess (this time around, it's probably even more rushed and haphazard). Why would we repeat it?

Im not talking about this particular instance, im speaking in general. ANYONE republican or democrat, that votes on a bill or issue based only on the fact he doesn't like the person supporting it, needs removed.

All the democrats, I mean socialists want "Medicare for all".

Wait until that happens (could be 2020), then America will understand why socialism does not work. Never has, never will.

The Obamacare drama is just that, drama. Political gamesmanship by McCain (the political coward).

Lol, my fellow liberals, check this one out.

I agree with you that someone who does that, shouldn't. I just don't see that in McCains actions. These healthcare repeal-replace bills have been hastily assembled, not fully understood and scored, and attempted to be pushed through with a simple majority (which will go away soon). People (correctly) fumed when Pelosi said we had to vote for ACA in order to read it. I don't see enough of a difference between that disaster and this one.