DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer

Well.. If this franchise lasts long enough, we will have passed on or been out maneuvered for every starting QB in the league except the latest rookie or retread we trot out there.. But.. we will have tons of picks to keep trying

Passing on Wentz was such a colossal f up.

Wentz wasn't good enough for the Browns but was good enough for the Eagles. He's progressing really well and leads his team to victories.

That wasn't going to get it done in Cleveland.

You need to watch more Eagles games.

Wentz is not the reason that team is good. They have a dominating defense and weapons in offense.

Browns have given Kizer one guy *Duke* who they barely use and a bunch of young guys who are fringe NFL talent.

Also, Kizer is nearly 3 years younger than Wentz. I would put my chips on Kizer personally.

I watch a lot of football. As much as I can. I've watched Wentz a ton.

To me he passes the eye test. Just needs game experience. Has all the tools and the mentality/leadership.

I think it was a huge mistake passing on him.

IIRC, we didn't pass on Wentz.

I went to the game. Had great seat and got a terrific view. Here are some of my observations about kizer today.

1, there were a fair number of different plays were all the receivers were covered. All were one on one. Kizer didn't challenge any if those.

2, there were a fair number of open receivers that kizer missed.

3, there were several plays were there was an open receiver, kizer clearly saw them, but wouldn't pull the trigger right away. He would look at them and wait. Then the coverage caught up.

4, when he steps and fires the ball he is sharp and right on target. Seems like when he tries to use touch, he aims the ball and loses accuracy.

Thanks jester. Good comments.

Kize has a long way to go, but he does have some potential.

Kizer still isn't panicked in the pocket. He's not hugely inaccurate, but has a few moments, especially when he doesn't set his feet.

He just doesn't trust what he sees yet. It hasn't clicked. Since he is the starter, they don't have the time to work on it on the side at a slower pace for him in practice. They have to prepare for the next game and he has to run the first team drills.

Windows open and close a lot quicker than he is used to and players that aren't covering the guy that he is looking to also can close in a lot quicker than they did in college.

I noticed something when we had that the thread about Hue being a QB Whisperer and several of us were breaking down Kizer's game tapes.

I noted that Kize really struggled w/his mechanics when throwing to the left. His front foot opened up way too far and he lost accuracy. Check out the chart. What did he have to the left? 6 completions of the 22?

Gotta work on that.

I don't think we should bench him. That would be dumb. However, I do wish we would have let him sit for awhile and continued to work on his mechanics and learn the nuances of the position.

Dude never even had a snap count at ND! That freaking blows my mind!

I don't totally disagree.. but I would take a Julio Jones or an AJ Green over a RB any day... By position group, Crow and Duke are much better RB tandem than any combo of our WRs we've got.

Agreed. There are many things the team should trying to achieve this season. At the top of that list is to develop Kizer and see if he can become "the man". Hue Jackson, the head coach of the Cleveland Browns, thinks that the best way for Kizer to develop is for him to play every week. It would be dumb to overreact and change the plan after week three. That's what this team has being doing since 1999 and it has never worked.

I actually completely agree with you here.

Good post! So do you think he is waiting to see them open, waiting too long to throw?

Seems like he lobs his touch stuff; can throw hard. Explain the wait to me if you saw the reason(s).

.

Example of waiting to throw :
Kizer rolling out to the right, there's a receiver on the hash heading for the sideline. I see him because that is right where kizer is looking. The defender was chasing him, a good 3 yards behind him. Easy throw for a 5 yard gain. I'm waiting but no football. I change my focus back to kizer, he is still looking at him. No defender pressuring him. The receiver has to slow so that he doesn't run out of bounds sobthe defender catches up. There's another receiver trailing. Kizer then decedes to try to throw the ball to him. Because of positioning iand the roll out, it has to be a cross body throw and ends ups going incomplete.

I had a perfect view if this play. I had 30 yard line seats row 4 and we snapped from around the 30 and kizer was rolling to my side of the field

I grew up playing baseball. I was a pitcher and pitched in college. When I would just rev back and throw my accuracy was spot on. However, there comes a time when instead of just throwing, you try to place the ball where you want it to go. Invariably that throw misses the target. It seems like that is what kizer is doing on many throws. Then you'll see him try to hit a tiny window. He doesn't think about it and just fires in a fastball. Bam, it hits the perfect spot.

Does that explain the second part of your post?

I don't have any idea on why he was slow to pull the trigger.

Probably because he's lost confidence on his ability to throw into an NFL window. Which is exactly why you should wait to start your rookie NFL QB until you're confident he can handle the speed of the NFL and knows his playbook backwards and forward.

whats worse is when he finally does pull the trigger, it's not accurate. That tells me that he's spending all the time waiting for the throw, then hurrying through his mechanics.. He shouldn't be out there right now..don't care what anyone says. But looks like he is, but if we go 1-15 or worse, do we really think we are rolling with him next year? I don't think the new coach will want to do that

See my prior posts. Draft Sam Darnold and Saquon Barkley in the 2018 draft and we will be fine.

how is he suppose to learn how to handle the speed of the game if he doesn't get to play?

Absolutely. There is no way that Kizer should be benched this year. This year is about evaluating him to see if he can be your future. If he's healthy, play him. Having said that, evaluating him with this receiving unit...Yikes! These WRs are damn near a detriment.

Yeah. The only way to get used to the speed of the NFL game is to face the speed of the NFL game.

Kizer seems to be mentally strong enough to handle the problems and issues at WR and such. You can still evaluate the QB by where he throws the ball, if it goes to the right spot, and so forth, even without great receivers.

If Kizer shows enough to be the guy, then we can draft WR and CB heavy in next year's draft ... and really close up 2 weaknesses on the team.

I was against starting DK this year. I felt he should sit on the bench and learn for the 1st 6-8 games then start him. But since we did start him from game #1 I feel we now have to roll with him to see what we have. I just hope he doesn't get hurt or have his confidence ruined.

You and I are in the same boat.

I'm of the thought process that if his confidence is ruined due to a losing season, i.e., 1-15, 2-14 , 3-13 type season, he was never going to be your QB of the future to begin with.

The QB position requires as much mental fortitude as it does physical skills. A mentally weak QB will never succeed and his confidence /mental make-up should factor in as much a part of the evaluation process as the visible skill set shown on the field.

Carr, Winston, Marirota, Aikman, Peyton Manning, Elway etc... all endured numerous losses in their rookie seasons and were not "ruined."

Another point, a young/rookie QB has to have the full support of the entire organization in order to succeed. He cannot be afraid to make mistakes or be looking over his shoulder when the losses or INTs pile up, imo, of course.

Kizer doesn't strike me as someone that is mentally weak.

I am fine with giving him time ... on the bench till he becomes good enough to start. He is a big reason we are losing games. Granted he is not the ONLY reason but he is one of the BIG ones.

Kizer is 21 years old.

He could play 4 years in the league, and would still be younger than Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, and Jimmy Garopollo are right now.

I saw that too. The announcer said no one was open. I said BS. It was a nice play designed for an easy throw to pick up a few yards and possibly a first down. Poorly executed by Kizer. Another example of him looking for the big play when the correct play is right in front of him. He isn't seeing the "game", he's too worried about the "play". He'll settle down once he realizes he's not doing himself any favors by making his job harder than it needs to be.

Say what you may positive or negative about Kiser. But he is the best we have. He's the best I've seen here for sometime now. It's Better to play and learn then sit and learn IMO. Go Browns

Played another year in college.

"how is he suppose to learn how to handle the speed of the game if he doesn't get to play?"

I am not saying do not let him play. I am saying he clearly is not ready and that a game or two on the sidelines may benefit him. W

"how is he suppose to learn how to handle the speed of the game if he doesn't get to play?"

I am not saying do not let him play. I am saying he clearly is not ready and that a game or two on the sidelines may benefit him. Why does everyone insist that he must start and play all 16 games to be evaluated.

I feel anywhere from 6-8 games can give the FO enough of a gauge to see where he is in his development.

I feel he has 2 glaring holes in his game 1) inaccuracy. He has had time in the pocket and has thrown some horrible passes. seems to me that he overthinks these plays instead of letting it rip.
2) Turnovers. I see a lot of people blaming the defense, which is not out of line. but, they are using our defensive struggles as excuses for poor QB play. There is no room for defensive talk on QB threads.

If any of our running backs were to fumble the ball a 1/4 of the time that Kizer has turned it over, they would be benched or more than likely cut.

These are the 2 biggest issues. There are others that have been discussed at length in this thread.

Kiser has great potential, but he is 21. It is clear that Hue and/ or the FO jumped the gun by naming him the starter. Especially going against our first 2 opponents of the year. Obviously hindsight, but a lot of people said this all preseason. Sit Kizer until week 6 or so. that would still give the FO around 10 games to evaluate the young man.

Anyone that claims to be 100% sold that Hogan can not do a better job must have some magic glasses, because he has not gotten an opportunity to show what he has. What I saw from him was 10 points in 4-5 series and a turnover that could be attributed to poor time management by our coaching staff during a 2 minute offense at the end of the half.