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You don't always need to "outcoach" the other coach to win. I would think there are way more good-enough coaching jobs being done. I think . . .
I'm not thinking fire the front office NOW, but I think they should be on a shorter leash than Hue. I feel like a more traditional GM style could be re-slotted in there if needed. They have picked some crappy skill-positions but there's definitely a very solid foundation in place.
In the end I HOPE both Hue and the FO get a full 5 years. Hell, and for infinity and beyond . . .
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I moved (sons) my computer from 1st floor to upper level due expected Tidal flooding from Jose...Speakers did not come up with it. So I always listen to pressers from Browns site but have not been able to...ergo my question. Which leads to the question: When an organization and a team continually punts success a year ahead, when can the team actually win? The question was put to Jackson on Monday: In the context of a continual emphasis on youth, the release of certain veterans and the constant emphasis on future drafts which punts success ahead -- can the Browns win now?"I think this team can," Jackson said. "I think we got to do some things better and work a little bit harder in doing some of the detail things right. I think that question you just asked, I think that's something you have to talk to (Vice President) Sashi (Brown) about, and the executive team." http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brown...ng-term-rebuildthis guy give the context of it pretty good.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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The question was put to Jackson on Monday: In the context of a continual emphasis on youth, the release of certain veterans and the constant emphasis on future drafts which punts success ahead -- can the Browns win now?
That color is darn near impossile to read.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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The question was put to Jackson on Monday: In the context of a continual emphasis on youth, the release of certain veterans and the constant emphasis on future drafts which punts success ahead -- can the Browns win now?
That color is darn near impossile to read.
why i used it. eotab half blind hehehe
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Legend
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Sat real close to me screen... 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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It is at least shady writing and intentionally misleads at least some readers. But it is the sensationalized kind of crappy opinion that if you are offensive or controversial, you are interesting. I think it is kind of smarmy at best.
Boils down to the story you want to write without reporting facts. Like if USA Today runs opinion editorials on sports page and treats it like sports coverage. I resent paying for news that gets packaged to suit someone's opinion (read bias) instead of factual reporting. Too prevalent. Baseless opinions are easier by far; pretend that they trump facts and specifics. Much of ESPN is counting on it, and more folks are less content with the talking head content and artificial controversy. What year does all this pay off?
RIP, Jim
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Sashi and Depodesa need to GO and we KEEP Hue Jackson.
the talent level on this team isn't even close...and thats 100% on Brown and Depodsta, they make the picks... Isn't close to what exactly? And how do you know who "it's on?" And for everyone who keeps mentioning how far behind in talent, just how far behind are we? Where are we lacking the talent that says this should be a winless or 1-15 team? What exactly are we missing? What players at what positions do we need that would make us so much better? If anything I'm more concerned with the coaching than the front office. These close games that are lost are only 1 or 2 poor coaching decisions away from being a victory. I'm not saying fire anyone, and I'll echo what Hue says, everyone needs to get better. I am going to preface my comments by saying that I don't think anyone should be fired, but I think your line of thinking is way off. We are lacking talent. Some of it is due to inexperience and some of them are just bad. We are weak in the following areas: QB: Raw, inexperienced, inaccurate, slow reads. WR: Poor route runners, bad hands, no game breakers, no one is dependable. TE: Inexperienced. RT: Poor lateral movement. FS: Not a true one on the roster. CB: Terrible unit. This isn't Hue's fault. I am also not sure how people keep missing that the owner and even some members of the FO have talked about how they tore things down and that it is a multiyear plan. Expecting the team to win this year is dumb.
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I can Debate you on many accounts there. But won't...lol  It never ends up well.
QBs...agree right now weak until the game slows down a bit for Kizer.."IF"
WRs...partially agree
TE...sorry don't agree at all I think its been a surprising strength of the O.
RT...can't separate it Shon has been OK...OL unit pretty solid.
The rest I'll leave alone.
jmho as always.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Would love to see the Browns trade for Beckham. I know that has close to 0% chance of happening. But if I could dream I would try to hold onto to both number ones next year, but I would give all three 2nd rounders for Beckham.
I bet the Giants would be tempted with the right deal.
Him and Carr should be Browns anyway.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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My response was predicated on the other poster blaming coaching rather than the talent.
The rebuild is not done yet. We blew things up. People who were okay w/the complete blowup of the roster probably should be patient.
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People will react each game to losses and wins.
I mean even myself gets very PO'd after a loss. If you love the team that will happen and when we win everyone gets elated.
I don't think criticism rightly so or wrong on Hue and the FO actually means they are stating that they want them GONE...I mean there are a few and most are guys I don't remember reading that much, that do state that. But just like you criticize and have to start out by saying that you do not think the FO or Coaching staff should be replaced...then you go and criticize.
It does not mean those who don't start out their post that way means their criticism is only subject to firings.
I enjoy when you state your opinion and back it with football.
You lose me and others when you make it personal with posters.
Especially the Racist thing that is very personal.
Enjoy the game today as we hopefully will experience our first win.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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it's always wait until next year or even worse, next decade, with this franchise. It doesn't take the elite NFL franchises years to rebuild so why the Browns?
It all comes down to ownership that is willing to do what it takes to win. The Browns have an owner that is taking the money ball approach in trying to build a winning team. It's not working.
Any real NFL talent they have is let go because they don't want to pay to keep them. So what if they find real talent in the draft with their high picks if they are not willing to pay to keep that talent or stars they already have. That's just spinning your wheels and going no where.
At least Cleveland has the Cavs and Indians.
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It is hard to blast this front office for blowing drafts. Garrett hasn't played yet, the other two first rounders are promising. I will not fault them for taking Kizer. From 2016, Coleman keeps getting hurt, so we don't know if he is any good. Ogbeh, Nassib, Schobert - those guys aren't terrible picks.
They are going to have trouble keeping or signing free agents as long as we keep losing and have all this turmoil. But no one should have expected it to turn around this year. We came into the season with no answer at QB, for pete's sake.
I don't love these guys - Sashi or Hue. But we have to give them time.
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Sashi and Depodesa need to GO and we KEEP Hue Jackson.
the talent level on this team isn't even close...and thats 100% on Brown and Depodsta, they make the picks... Isn't close to what exactly? And how do you know who "it's on?" And for everyone who keeps mentioning how far behind in talent, just how far behind are we? Where are we lacking the talent that says this should be a winless or 1-15 team? What exactly are we missing? What players at what positions do we need that would make us so much better? If anything I'm more concerned with the coaching than the front office. These close games that are lost are only 1 or 2 poor coaching decisions away from being a victory. I'm not saying fire anyone, and I'll echo what Hue says, everyone needs to get better. I am going to preface my comments by saying that I don't think anyone should be fired, but I think your line of thinking is way off. We are lacking talent. Some of it is due to inexperience and some of them are just bad. We are weak in the following areas: QB: Raw, inexperienced, inaccurate, slow reads. WR: Poor route runners, bad hands, no game breakers, no one is dependable. TE: Inexperienced. RT: Poor lateral movement. FS: Not a true one on the roster. CB: Terrible unit. This isn't Hue's fault. I am also not sure how people keep missing that the owner and even some members of the FO have talked about how they tore things down and that it is a multiyear plan. Expecting the team to win this year is dumb. I don't exactly agree with some of your assessments, but I'm going to give your post a  due to the fact that you bring up a point that I don't many people who have made the blanket statement of "we don't have talent" are considering. I think there is a significant distinction under the umbrella of "no talent" between players that are just outright bad (see Erving) and players that are still developing (see guys like Calhoun). So I think it's wholly possible to say this team lacks talent, and still believe the FO is on the right track.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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My response was predicated on the other poster blaming coaching rather than the talent.
The rebuild is not done yet. We blew things up. People who were okay w/the complete blowup of the roster probably should be patient. Vers: I haven't read this particular thread, but I've followed you expressing this viewpoint that it ain't , we shouldn't blame Hue, in various posts recently. I respect your point of view. But when all of the losses look the same, at some point you have to look at the coach. How much time until you think the coach has to answer for losses?
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There is a saying that every rookie you play will add to a loss.
It’s going to get better, there are just unrealistic expectations that the team will be instantly better given that the roster is probably at least half first and second year players. We will have another influx next year as well.
That was the plan, we need to stick to the plan.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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So the plan was to become the worst team in the NFL and build from there?
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Same Pre snap formation every play of the 4th quarter, most of the 3rd too.
3 wide, or 4 wide.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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The only time they've run it was a draw play , from about the Bengal 10 yard line.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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4th and goal 2 27 to play. from the 3 Browns on offense
pass interference.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Dawg Citizen above: So the plan was to become the worst team in the NFL and build from there? Only if I really did: LOL. You left out a step. The plan was to become the worst team in the NFL, then get worse, then to... Anybody remember what the next step was?
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Dawg Citizen above: So the plan was to become the worst team in the NFL and build from there? Only if I really did: LOL. You left out a step. The plan was to become the worst team in the NFL, then get worse, then to... Anybody remember what the next step was? To show we were really serious about rebuilding
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Yep.
Have another presser explain how we need this to get better. What has improved? The palette of plays and formations is very limited, pretty much the same. What Kizer is doing is acting snake bit. Lots of hurries, hits, sacks, Cleveland hold-ems, short armed, and then throw to the shortest dumbest route on the field. Coach Hue needs to be questioned about what we are doing, because it is the same fails.
Hats off to Hogan. And to our receivers who managed to catch some balls; I understand these were broken plays, but we battled. Let's pretend it is progress. STs stunk it up again.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Dawg Citizen above: So the plan was to become the worst team in the NFL and build from there? Only if I really did: LOL. You left out a step. The plan was to become the worst team in the NFL, then get worse, then to... Anybody remember what the next step was? To show we were really serious about rebuilding 
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Dawg Citizen above: So the plan was to become the worst team in the NFL and build from there? Only if I really did: LOL. You left out a step. The plan was to become the worst team in the NFL, then get worse, then to... Anybody remember what the next step was? To show we were really serious about rebuilding Like only we can
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Dawg Citizen above: So the plan was to become the worst team in the NFL and build from there? Only if I really did: LOL. You left out a step. The plan was to become the worst team in the NFL, then get worse, then to... Anybody remember what the next step was? To show we were really serious about rebuilding LOL
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Dawg Citizen above: So the plan was to become the worst team in the NFL and build from there? Only if I really did: LOL. You left out a step. The plan was to become the worst team in the NFL, then get worse, then to... Anybody remember what the next step was? LOL
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It now seems like the plan is to become the 1st 1-15 team to finish 0-16 the following year. 
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My response was predicated on the other poster blaming coaching rather than the talent.
The rebuild is not done yet. We blew things up. People who were okay w/the complete blowup of the roster probably should be patient. 2015 vs 2017 QB 2015: Josh McCown/Johnny Manziel/Austin Davis 2017: Deshone Kizer/Kevin Hogan/Cody Kessler RB 2015: Crowell/Johnson 2017: Crowell/Johnson WR 2015: Travis Benjamin/Taylor Gabriel/Brian Hartline/Andrew Hawkins 2017: Corey Coleman/Kenny Britt/Ricardo Louis/Rashard Higgins TE 2015: Gary Barnidge/Jim Dray 2017: David Njoku/Seth Devalve/Randy Telfer OL 2015: Thomas/Bitonio/Mack/Greco/Schwartz 2017: Thomas/Bitonio/Tretter/Zeitler/Coleman Defense DL 2015: Bryant/Shelton/Starks 2017: Garrett/Shelton/Ogbah LB 2015: Dansby/Kruger/Orchard/Robertson 2017: Schobert/Kirksey/Collins/Orchard CB: 2015: Tramon Williams/Haden/Desir/K'waun Williams 2017: Taylor/McCourty/Boddy-Calhoun Saftey: 2015: Whitner/Gipson/Poyer/Campbell 2017: Kindred/Peppers/Campbell Special Teams: K 2015: Coons 2017: Gonzalez P 2015: Lee 2017: Colquitt So.... Have we improved talent from 2015? Is it worse? Or about the same overall? Is the front office doing it's job bringing in better talent? We are definitely younger and less experienced. But is that the same as lacking talent? Who made the call to start Kizer? And hypothetically would we still have the same record with anyone else starting at QB? Does the front office give Hue the players without any collaboration? Does Hue have the opportunity to say I like so-and-so, I don't like so-and-so, or does the front office just draft, sign, or cut players and say here's your team Hue, go win...? Hue said that he was "kicking himself" by not running Crowell more in 2016. I heard all the time how I shouldn't worry, Hue didn't forget how to run an offense overnight, but did he forget what he said about running on offense overnight? (12.5 att/g in 2016 vs 11.5 att/g in 2017) Or did the front office phone down to Hue and tell him to showcase Kizer? Hue did a good job identifying the problems on defense, firing Horton (28.3 pts/gm) and hiring Williams (26.8 pts/gm). I should blame the lack of talent because the front office has a terrible eye for talent and the coaching is fine, yet guys like Barnidge, Bryant, Hartline, Whitner, Kruger, Starks, and Greco can't find jobs in the NFL yet started for a Browns team in 2015. A team that Mike Pettine won 3 games with. Meanwhile Hue Jackson kicks off in overtime, preaches how he needs a quarterback with an accurate arm but starts someone who couldn't hit the broadside of the barn, and gobbles up timeouts like they grow on trees.... but no, our problem isn't coaching, our problem is the lack of talent! Lack of talent! Oh wait, Hue Jackson was 8-8 with Oakland and almost made the playoffs!! How many teams did the Raiders beat that year with a winning record? If you said ONE you are correct! Trivia question for the day: What team holds the record for most penalties in a season? DING DING DING!!! The 2011 Oakland Raiders! Head coach? Hue Jackson!! Oh yes, we have to keep Hue because he's so awesome and our front office are just a bunch dingbats.
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My response was predicated on the other poster blaming coaching rather than the talent.
The rebuild is not done yet. We blew things up. People who were okay w/the complete blowup of the roster probably should be patient. 2015 vs 2017 QB 2015: Josh McCown/Johnny Manziel/Austin Davis 2017: Deshone Kizer/Kevin Hogan/Cody Kessler RB 2015: Crowell/Johnson 2017: Crowell/Johnson WR 2015: Travis Benjamin/Taylor Gabriel/Brian Hartline/Andrew Hawkins 2017: Corey Coleman/Kenny Britt/Ricardo Louis/Rashard Higgins TE 2015: Gary Barnidge/Jim Dray 2017: David Njoku/Seth Devalve/Randy Telfer OL 2015: Thomas/Bitonio/Mack/Greco/Schwartz 2017: Thomas/Bitonio/Tretter/Zeitler/Coleman Defense DL 2015: Bryant/Shelton/Starks 2017: Garrett/Shelton/Ogbah LB 2015: Dansby/Kruger/Orchard/Robertson 2017: Schobert/Kirksey/Collins/Orchard CB: 2015: Tramon Williams/Haden/Desir/K'waun Williams 2017: Taylor/McCourty/Boddy-Calhoun Saftey: 2015: Whitner/Gipson/Poyer/Campbell 2017: Kindred/Peppers/Campbell Special Teams: K 2015: Coons 2017: Gonzalez P 2015: Lee 2017: Colquitt So.... Have we improved talent from 2015? Is it worse? Or about the same overall? Is the front office doing it's job bringing in better talent? We are definitely younger and less experienced. But is that the same as lacking talent? Who made the call to start Kizer? And hypothetically would we still have the same record with anyone else starting at QB? Does the front office give Hue the players without any collaboration? Does Hue have the opportunity to say I like so-and-so, I don't like so-and-so, or does the front office just draft, sign, or cut players and say here's your team Hue, go win...? Hue said that he was "kicking himself" by not running Crowell more in 2016. I heard all the time how I shouldn't worry, Hue didn't forget how to run an offense overnight, but did he forget what he said about running on offense overnight? (12.5 att/g in 2016 vs 11.5 att/g in 2017) Or did the front office phone down to Hue and tell him to showcase Kizer? Hue did a good job identifying the problems on defense, firing Horton (28.3 pts/gm) and hiring Williams (26.8 pts/gm). I should blame the lack of talent because the front office has a terrible eye for talent and the coaching is fine, yet guys like Barnidge, Bryant, Hartline, Whitner, Kruger, Starks, and Greco can't find jobs in the NFL yet started for a Browns team in 2015. A team that Mike Pettine won 3 games with. Meanwhile Hue Jackson kicks off in overtime, preaches how he needs a quarterback with an accurate arm but starts someone who couldn't hit the broadside of the barn, and gobbles up timeouts like they grow on trees.... but no, our problem isn't coaching, our problem is the lack of talent! Lack of talent! Oh wait, Hue Jackson was 8-8 with Oakland and almost made the playoffs!! How many teams did the Raiders beat that year with a winning record? If you said ONE you are correct! Trivia question for the day: What team holds the record for most penalties in a season? DING DING DING!!! The 2011 Oakland Raiders! Head coach? Hue Jackson!! Oh yes, we have to keep Hue because he's so awesome and our front office are just a bunch dingbats. I'm so glad that someone else sees the same thing I do. Good post!!!
Exciting football will be back in Cleveland this fall!
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I don't know if Hue is the guy or not but if you fire him who are you going to get to come here knowing that they only get 2 years and we are just starting a major rebuilding processes? If I were a head coaching candidate I don't think I would want to get involved with the Cleveland Browns.
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I don't know if Hue is the guy or not but if you fire him who are you going to get to come here knowing that they only get 2 years and we are just starting a major rebuilding processes? If I were a head coaching candidate I don't think I would want to get involved with the Cleveland Browns. Todd Downing of the Rams would start winning you games immediately. We have the draft to find a QB, then you build from there. Go Browns!
Exciting football will be back in Cleveland this fall!
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The HC doesn't draft players, the FO does. We've passed on several QB prospects ranked much higher than Kizer. Changing HC's won't change what the FO does.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The HC doesn't draft players, the FO does. We've passed on several QB prospects ranked much higher than Kizer. Changing HC's won't change what the FO does. You have to give the head coach the power to call the shots like Bill Belichick!
Exciting football will be back in Cleveland this fall!
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My response was predicated on the other poster blaming coaching rather than the talent.
The rebuild is not done yet. We blew things up. People who were okay w/the complete blowup of the roster probably should be patient. 2015 vs 2017 QB 2015: Josh McCown/Johnny Manziel/Austin Davis 2017: Deshone Kizer/Kevin Hogan/Cody Kessler sadly, I guess we are technically better at qb.RB 2015: Crowell/Johnson 2017: Crowell/Johnson washWR 2015: Travis Benjamin/Taylor Gabriel/Brian Hartline/Andrew Hawkins 2017: Corey Coleman/Kenny Britt/Ricardo Louis/Rashard Higgins there is no excuse for the WR position. We lacked talent then, and we lack talent now. Gabriel and Benjamin have the luxury of having a pretty good QB to throw to them though, so that has to play into consideration.TE 2015: Gary Barnidge/Jim Dray 2017: David Njoku/Seth Devalve/Randy Telfer Barnidge was a 1 year wonder, Devalve looks like he is going to be a good/great #2 option at TE, and we still need to see what we have with Njoku. I like this year TE better.OL 2015: Thomas/Bitonio/Mack/Greco/Schwartz 2017: Thomas/Bitonio/Tretter/Zeitler/Coleman Mack is better than Tretter, Zeitler better than Greco, Schwartz better than coleman. I would say this is a wash, but Coleman is very young, and may get better.Defense DL 2015: Bryant/Shelton/Starks 2017: Garrett/Shelton/Ogbah Easily better this year.LB 2015: Dansby/Kruger/Orchard/Robertson 2017: Schobert/Kirksey/Collins/Orchard again, vastly improved nowCB: 2015: Tramon Williams/Haden/Desir/K'waun Williams 2017: Taylor/McCourty/Boddy-Calhoun ugghhh this is tough. I would say we were better in 15 because of haden, but man was Tramon bad. But so is Taylor. I think BBC needs to startSaftey: 2015: Whitner/Gipson/Poyer/Campbell 2017: Kindred/Peppers/Campbell Gipson was playing pretty good here, I was said to see him leave, he's been solid but nothing outstanding. Peppers has been a letdown up to date, but how much of that is the fact they are playing him 40 yards of the ball. I hold my judgement on him so far. Whitner was here for a check, he was washed up. I think think this is a wash, but huge upside with peppersSpecial Teams: K 2015: Coons 2017: Gonzalez Gonzalez looks to be the real deal. Better know.P 2015: Lee 2017: Colquitt Andy Lee was better, but Colquitt has been a nice surprise.So.... Have we improved talent from 2015? Is it worse? Or about the same overall? I think we have more talent overall. and much more youth which will allow us to get better and buildIs the front office doing it's job bringing in better talent? short answer, yes and no. They have made some moves that have been on paper pretty interesting and some head scratching moves as well. If haden wasn't worth 11 million, how is Britt worth 8? Haden was worth much closer to 11 than Britt is to 8We are definitely younger and less experienced. But is that the same as lacking talent? We went from a lot of aging players who retired when we let them go, to young and inexperienced. At positions like WR, we are lacking talent.Who made the call to start Kizer? And hypothetically would we still have the same record with anyone else starting at QB? All depth chart moves are on the HC. Plain and simple.Does the front office give Hue the players without any collaboration? Does Hue have the opportunity to say I like so-and-so, I don't like so-and-so, or does the front office just draft, sign, or cut players and say here's your team Hue, go win...? I think a lot of the moves (like haden) are from strictly the FO. Which is not a way to run a franchise. These guys to me seem to think they are smarter than everyone else, and tend to try to be too fancy.Hue said that he was "kicking himself" by not running Crowell more in 2016. I heard all the time how I shouldn't worry, Hue didn't forget how to run an offense overnight, but did he forget what he said about running on offense overnight? (12.5 att/g in 2016 vs 11.5 att/g in 2017) Or did the front office phone down to Hue and tell him to showcase Kizer? No excuse for not running the ball, other than the fact that we cant. Duke should be starting, and Crow or Dayes the backup. My thoughts are Dayes should be the backup. I never liked Crow, doesn't have vision at all.Hue did a good job identifying the problems on defense, firing Horton (28.3 pts/gm) and hiring Williams (26.8 pts/gm). Williams is a head scratcher, he is highly regarded in the league, and usually has an aggressive D. But for some reason, we are not being aggressive when we were all preseason.I should blame the lack of talent because the front office has a terrible eye for talent and the coaching is fine, yet guys like Barnidge, Bryant, Hartline, Whitner, Kruger, Starks, and Greco can't find jobs in the NFL yet started for a Browns team in 2015. A team that Mike Pettine won 3 games with. Meanwhile Hue Jackson kicks off in overtime, preaches how he needs a quarterback with an accurate arm but starts someone who couldn't hit the broadside of the barn, and gobbles up timeouts like they grow on trees.... but no, our problem isn't coaching, our problem is the lack of talent! Lack of talent! Hue needs an offensive coordinator, if he refuses, its on the FO to tell him he needs to hire one. Plain and simple.Oh wait, Hue Jackson was 8-8 with Oakland and almost made the playoffs!! How many teams did the Raiders beat that year with a winning record? If you said ONE you are correct! Trivia question for the day: What team holds the record for most penalties in a season? DING DING DING!!! The 2011 Oakland Raiders! Head coach? Hue Jackson!! Complain all you want, but we are not going to get top level talent (coaching or players) to come here. and Jackson has high regard in the league. What coach wants to come to a team that fires the HC every 2 years?? We got hue, its time we start giving him more talent to work with. Coaching is overrated - TALENT is not. Oh yes, we have to keep Hue because he's so awesome and our front office are just a bunch dingbats. No, we have to keep hue because you cannot turn a team around from absolutely nothing to playoff contender in a 2 years. Especially when we cut half the team. Is hue the best coach there is, nope. Is he the best coach we could get, probably. Are we going to be better off firing him, absolutely not.
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 518
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2017
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My response was predicated on the other poster blaming coaching rather than the talent.
The rebuild is not done yet. We blew things up. People who were okay w/the complete blowup of the roster probably should be patient. 2015 vs 2017 QB 2015: Josh McCown/Johnny Manziel/Austin Davis 2017: Deshone Kizer/Kevin Hogan/Cody Kessler sadly, I guess we are technically better at qb.RB 2015: Crowell/Johnson 2017: Crowell/Johnson washWR 2015: Travis Benjamin/Taylor Gabriel/Brian Hartline/Andrew Hawkins 2017: Corey Coleman/Kenny Britt/Ricardo Louis/Rashard Higgins there is no excuse for the WR position. We lacked talent then, and we lack talent now. Gabriel and Benjamin have the luxury of having a pretty good QB to throw to them though, so that has to play into consideration.TE 2015: Gary Barnidge/Jim Dray 2017: David Njoku/Seth Devalve/Randy Telfer Barnidge was a 1 year wonder, Devalve looks like he is going to be a good/great #2 option at TE, and we still need to see what we have with Njoku. I like this year TE better.OL 2015: Thomas/Bitonio/Mack/Greco/Schwartz 2017: Thomas/Bitonio/Tretter/Zeitler/Coleman Mack is better than Tretter, Zeitler better than Greco, Schwartz better than coleman. I would say this is a wash, but Coleman is very young, and may get better.Defense DL 2015: Bryant/Shelton/Starks 2017: Garrett/Shelton/Ogbah Easily better this year.LB 2015: Dansby/Kruger/Orchard/Robertson 2017: Schobert/Kirksey/Collins/Orchard again, vastly improved nowCB: 2015: Tramon Williams/Haden/Desir/K'waun Williams 2017: Taylor/McCourty/Boddy-Calhoun ugghhh this is tough. I would say we were better in 15 because of haden, but man was Tramon bad. But so is Taylor. I think BBC needs to startSaftey: 2015: Whitner/Gipson/Poyer/Campbell 2017: Kindred/Peppers/Campbell Gipson was playing pretty good here, I was said to see him leave, he's been solid but nothing outstanding. Peppers has been a letdown up to date, but how much of that is the fact they are playing him 40 yards of the ball. I hold my judgement on him so far. Whitner was here for a check, he was washed up. I think think this is a wash, but huge upside with peppersSpecial Teams: K 2015: Coons 2017: Gonzalez Gonzalez looks to be the real deal. Better know.P 2015: Lee 2017: Colquitt Andy Lee was better, but Colquitt has been a nice surprise.So.... Have we improved talent from 2015? Is it worse? Or about the same overall? I think we have more talent overall. and much more youth which will allow us to get better and buildIs the front office doing it's job bringing in better talent? short answer, yes and no. They have made some moves that have been on paper pretty interesting and some head scratching moves as well. If haden wasn't worth 11 million, how is Britt worth 8? Haden was worth much closer to 11 than Britt is to 8We are definitely younger and less experienced. But is that the same as lacking talent? We went from a lot of aging players who retired when we let them go, to young and inexperienced. At positions like WR, we are lacking talent.Who made the call to start Kizer? And hypothetically would we still have the same record with anyone else starting at QB? All depth chart moves are on the HC. Plain and simple.Does the front office give Hue the players without any collaboration? Does Hue have the opportunity to say I like so-and-so, I don't like so-and-so, or does the front office just draft, sign, or cut players and say here's your team Hue, go win...? I think a lot of the moves (like haden) are from strictly the FO. Which is not a way to run a franchise. These guys to me seem to think they are smarter than everyone else, and tend to try to be too fancy.Hue said that he was "kicking himself" by not running Crowell more in 2016. I heard all the time how I shouldn't worry, Hue didn't forget how to run an offense overnight, but did he forget what he said about running on offense overnight? (12.5 att/g in 2016 vs 11.5 att/g in 2017) Or did the front office phone down to Hue and tell him to showcase Kizer? No excuse for not running the ball, other than the fact that we cant. Duke should be starting, and Crow or Dayes the backup. My thoughts are Dayes should be the backup. I never liked Crow, doesn't have vision at all.Hue did a good job identifying the problems on defense, firing Horton (28.3 pts/gm) and hiring Williams (26.8 pts/gm). Williams is a head scratcher, he is highly regarded in the league, and usually has an aggressive D. But for some reason, we are not being aggressive when we were all preseason.I should blame the lack of talent because the front office has a terrible eye for talent and the coaching is fine, yet guys like Barnidge, Bryant, Hartline, Whitner, Kruger, Starks, and Greco can't find jobs in the NFL yet started for a Browns team in 2015. A team that Mike Pettine won 3 games with. Meanwhile Hue Jackson kicks off in overtime, preaches how he needs a quarterback with an accurate arm but starts someone who couldn't hit the broadside of the barn, and gobbles up timeouts like they grow on trees.... but no, our problem isn't coaching, our problem is the lack of talent! Lack of talent! Hue needs an offensive coordinator, if he refuses, its on the FO to tell him he needs to hire one. Plain and simple.Oh wait, Hue Jackson was 8-8 with Oakland and almost made the playoffs!! How many teams did the Raiders beat that year with a winning record? If you said ONE you are correct! Trivia question for the day: What team holds the record for most penalties in a season? DING DING DING!!! The 2011 Oakland Raiders! Head coach? Hue Jackson!! Complain all you want, but we are not going to get top level talent (coaching or players) to come here. and Jackson has high regard in the league. What coach wants to come to a team that fires the HC every 2 years?? We got hue, its time we start giving him more talent to work with. Coaching is overrated - TALENT is not. Oh yes, we have to keep Hue because he's so awesome and our front office are just a bunch dingbats. No, we have to keep hue because you cannot turn a team around from absolutely nothing to playoff contender in a 2 years. Especially when we cut half the team. Is hue the best coach there is, nope. Is he the best coach we could get, probably. Are we going to be better off firing him, absolutely not. We will go nowhere with Hue and you can fight that all you want with all due respect. It ain't gonna happen with Hue!!
Exciting football will be back in Cleveland this fall!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
j/c:
I have to admit that I can't even read most of the posts on here anymore. I start to read them and it is so freaking ridiculous that I have to just skim through and hope I find a good one.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,674
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,674 |
Hue isn't going anywhere. As it should be.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,674
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,674 |
"He played as well as he's played all year,'' said Jackson. "With the exception of missing a couple of re-IDs and protection, he played lights out. He didn't take sacks. He threw the ball away. He didn't have turnovers. So that's improvement. I want everybody to know regardless of what the numbers are for him, the guy played extremely well.''
But I am not seeing this "lights out" playing by kizer yesterday. I saw Hogan again out playing kizer
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,581
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,581 |
As frustrating and aggravating as it is... we should've known what we signed up for.
"rebuild" "taking it down to the studs", etc.
We were still cutting at the end of training camp this year (Greco and Haden).
A rebuild like that isn't an overnight thing, and if we ever want to see the other side of a rebuild, we have to continue to be patient. We haven't been patient, which is one of the reasons we've never gotten out of rebuild mode.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hue Jackson says Browns winning
now is 'something you've got to
talk to the executive team about'
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