DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 2007 Heisman Trophy winner Troy Smith quarterback Ohio State University

There are a lot of guys I'd rather seen in a Browns uniform. I will say none of them are a QB. They all play O-line or D-line. If Smith was there on the second day then yes I would jump all over the pick. On day 1 we have several greater needs. If we take Troy in the first then we will be picking top 5 next year too. I don't know about the rest of you but I would like to know what it feels like to pick around 32.

The only thing I would dislike more than drafting Troy Smith, is trading up to do it.... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Just like all the idiots who FRRRREEEEEAAAAAKKKKEEEDD out when the Browns DARED drafting Wimbly instead of Ngata.

I read so many negative posts on that day I hoped this guy did good just to show those people that they know NOTHING. I think he has done so this far.

How about those who thought Gallery would answer all our problems? How's he doing out in Oakland?

My favorite was when people got pissed that we traded up in the 2nd to get a "Linebacker who was too small to play MLB in the NFL" and "May have been a good college player, but wouldn't translate here." (D'qwell Jackson)

I bet they all forget their stupid posts. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Point is this: You don't know, the "homers" don't know, none of us really know who is or isn't going to be good.

Troy Smith is a good player period. Will he make the Browns better? I have no idea.

Will Joe Thomas be the next Tony Boselli or the next Robert Gallery? I have no idea.

Neither do you.

While I have somewhat changed my postion on drafting Troy smith, being that I was totally against drafting him at all.

Now I say let Phil decide, that's why we pay him.

But I agree, trading up for him! No

Well I guess that pretty much renders that whole "Draft Forum" useless then..... <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Neither do you.

But here's what I do know.

How many starting NFL QB's are 6' or shorter?

How many "star" NFL QB's are 6' or under?

From the best I can tell?

ONE! Drew Brees.

So that's one out of thirty two. What size is the prototypical NFL QB? Does Troy have the physical attributes to fit this mold?

What I do is look at the facts and play the odds. Not ignore the odds,ignore the facts and wish to take a huge gamble that simply doesn't add up. That's what I kbow.

Can I say it's impossible to beat those odds? Nope,I sure can't. But would you bet on it with 31/1 odds? I doubt many NFL talent evaluaters will either.

<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Good stat, I think I needed to see that.

No, there will always be a need to come and belittle people because they like player X for whatever reason.

A place where you can rattle off statistics, comparisons, and percentages,(made available to you through web sites) as if you were a GM yourself.

A place where if you are wrong on your evaluation of a player, no one is calling for your job.

Sing it with me now.....

Where everybody knows your name.
And they're always glad you came.
You want to be where you can see,
the troubles are all the same.
You want to be where everybody know's Your Name! <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I dont think it would be any more of a stretch than expecting Charlie Frye or Derek Anderson to be our QB of the future. And as far as sure things go, there arent such a thing in the NFL. period. I mean look at what happened to Bentley, Winslow, Baxter, & Edwards inside of 18 months.

I know we need lineman but if we start next season with Frye or Anderson at QB than there is something seriously wrong with this organziation

I've said it before, I'll say it again, I'll say it 200 times before the draft.

BIG PLAYERS MAKE BIG PLAYS IN BIG GAMES. That's the best way to tell if someone will succeed or not. How they handle adversity and pressure. Forget all these measurements of arm strength and height. Look at the demeanor of the player and his calmness under pressure.

Smith looks like a leader, he has the "Vince Vibe" and look how Young is doing in Tennesee. I GUARANTEE they will win a Superbowl with him.

I'll take a guy who walks with his head held high and thrives in the spotlight of a big game, over a guy who sulks when he walks, has an "aw shucks" look to him and throws gamecosting INT's in the endzone in big games...

With all the talk of what LeBron meant to the Cavaliers, IMO, Smith would mean that to the Browns. A guy who has that magic to thrive when it counts.

That is a little over the top, I would say.

We heard you say it all of those times before, we just dont care.

Are you going to ask for an apology if we dont draft Troy?

That's all I'm doing BPG.

I mean the Heisman is a very great achievement! He's a very talented athlete! Great college QB! I'd love to have him here!

But if you look at Heisman winners over the past 15 years as I posted earlier,that being the best college player by winning the Heisman gives you less than a 50/50 shot at ever being successfull in the NFL.

Then you look at the attributes of the typical NFL QB and compare it to Troy,and those odds go down even further for him to be successfull in the NFL at "QB". Nobody can say for "sure" one way or the other.

But IMO- when you're using a first round draft choice,you look at the odds and the measurables to make an informed decision based on how their size and talent will transfer to the NFL. I mean that's a pretty reasonable thing to do.

You want to give yourself the very best odds of success with that first round pick. You'll be using those measurables. And people "outside the box" may very well considered later,but in round 1? You want to give yourself the most likely scenario for success. And I think it's pretty easy to see that Troy has more questions than anwers when looking at other portotypical NFL QB's that are playing now.

I mean the kid is so talented he could play WR if he doesn't pan out as QB. Maybe even RB. But that's an experiment. When you combine his size,you must also consider just how great their D is. Look at how good his OL is. Look at the fact he had a running game to accompany him and take some of the heat off of him.

While he is a great talent,he had the "best team around him" than any other NCAA QB in college too. that must account for something.

My question to everyone is this........................................

How would you react if Savage passes on Troy to draft Brady Quinn? Quinn has the size and measurables of a prototypical NFL QB. And despite having a far lesser team around him,had great success at his position. So how would you all respond if we draft Quinn with Troy still on the board?

Possibly, so why throw in a 3rd qb with big question marks?

Point taken, but as Pit pointed out, there are ways to minimize your risk and play the odds.... and drafting a 5'11" (on a good day) qb early in the draft is NOT minimizing your risk... If we were in a real good spot on both lines and in the secondary and picking in the low 20s, I might be willing to give him a shot... but right now, there are too many other players on the board that will be able to help us right now at positions where we desperately need help to take a flyer on an undersized QB.

I disagree.

I agree, and in respose to your question. I would respond promptly.... YIPPEEEEE!!!!!!


LOL

I would be ticked that we took a QB at all, but I would rest a little easier feeling like we at least took the right one.

You're right,if Troy is there in round three,he might be worth a shot.

Charlie Ward made big plays in big games. He was a strong armed, athletic, scrambling QB and at 6'2'' didn't think he could cut it in pro football (opting to go to the NBA). What's the difference between Charlie Ward and Troy Smith? Ward was 22-2 as a starter. He played primarily in the shotgun, spread formation......completed nearly 70% of his passes, led his team to a national title. Won the Hesiman, Maxwell, Sullivan and Sporting News player of the year. I know Ward had another option but if he thought he would be a superstar in the NFL, he would have made a lot more money being a franchise QB then being a bench player/role player in the NBA.

Not saying Smith won't succeed at the pro level but the odds are against him. I just can't believe some people want to spend a top 10 pick on him. He's not even a top 20 senior prospect (acccording to draft experts) and regardless of how good many of you might think he will be, guys that analize the draft for a living just don't seem to be in agreement with you. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong at this point but most of the guys that are really clammoring for Smith are diehard Buckeye fans. I'd consider him in the second but probably wouldn't even think about him in the 1st (unless we could somehow trade down and aquire 2 1st round picks) and even then, I would rather take an OT and OG that can step in and start.

The "Vince Vibe"????

YOUNG, VINCE QB 6-4 233 R

Surely you jest?

No agenda there. LOL.

Note: I do not want Troy Smith. No QB in the first round.

If they have a team around them.

Your right DC, I was just messin. We do need a QB down the road, but not until we have either.

1. Buillt a solid O-line for our franchise QB

or

2. Have hit rock bottom.


I hope it's 1.

IMO, it'd be like passing on LeBron James to draft Carmelo Anthony. Take that for what it's worth.

Jules,you and DC share my sentiment. I don't want any QB in round 1.

But IF our FO chooses one despite our wishes,I'd prefer one who actually has the talent AND "measurables" that make the odds of success optimum,not a huge gamble on an undersized QB.

JMHO

OMG. LMAO!!! Dude, you may be 19 but you would never know it from your posts. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

I agree with both of you on that. Ewww, something about that doesn't feel right. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Actually I do have an agenda and it doesn't involve a QB in this years draft at all.. unless Quinn is available in the 4th round... <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> But the choice posted was Smith or Quinn... given that choice, I'd take Quinn... even though I'm not all that sold on him either....

My choice would be to draft OL/DL in every round this year, give Frye and Anderson a chance to win the starting job next year and see what happens... if it becomes clear next year that neither of them are the answer, then go with Matt Ryan out of Boston College in the '08 draft... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Ok, thats the second Troy/LeBron reference.

Give me a break please. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

Homerism, at it's finest.

Awww, you've been watching the africam again. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't get the LeBron James comparisons.

If Smith was 6'5'' (see Vince Young) and still had the same skills, maybe the comparison might be valid but he's not. He's a 6'0'' QB in a league that has ONE 6'0'' starter out of 32 players.

LeBron James is a physcial specimen. It's not like he was a 6'2'' 175 LB SG, he's a 6'8'' 260 LB manchild. LeBron isn't undersized at his position so comparing drafting Brady Quinn ahead of Smith like drafting LeBron (6'8'') over Melo (6'7'') doesn't really hold any weight.....especially when considering Melo is a prototypical SG/SF as well.

Also, you're acting like Melo is chopped liver......he's a phenominal young player. Not sure if you knew he's averaging 30+ pts, 5 rebounds and 4 assists this season.......not exactly second rate. But I'm sure you probably took that in to consideration....... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LOL, you aren't SERIOUSLY comparing LeBron to Troy Smith, are you? OMG... <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Now, on to you saying it "100 times".....here's a few for you to chew on:

Doug Flutie made big plays in big games.

Ken Dorsey made big plays in big games.

Danny Weurffel made big plays in big games.

Charlie Ward made big plays in big games.

Eric Crouch made big plays in big games.

Akili Smith made big plays in big games.

Ryan Leaf made big plays in big games.

Want me to keep going? Big plays in big games in college doesn't mean you'll make them in the NFL. That's like saying you made big plays in high school so you're going to be a stud in college. Doesn't work that way.

Based on your LeBron/Troy comparison, do you think that the present Oakland Raiders squad, with the addition of Troy Smith, is a playoff team?

I'm sure the Texans would love to go back and pick Vince Young....

I don't care how big of a homer I am.. I want Troy! Use all the other picks for the trenches, but get him here. He's from the area, plays with heart, steps up in big games, has the physical tools other than the knock on his height. He'll be great in this league. Really the similarities between him and Drew Brees are there, accept he has speed.

You can knock measureables all you want but the guy WINS games and has the talent. The stars are alligned perfectly, don't miss out on this.

That being said... I hope he is there in round 2. That would be the perfect round, but I don't know if he lasts or drops down draft charts because of measureables that people talk about. We'll just have to see with time.

I agree he is a winner, I agree he is a good player, and I also agree there are REAl similarities between him and Brees. I agree you are a homer. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> jk

In round two?

We take him, but he will be long gone.

Agreed! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Two, Drew Brees and Michael Vick.



Drew Brees, and even though he is having an off year...I would still say Vick.



I would say 6 -4 to 6-5. But look at this list of 6-2 and under....

McNair 6 2

Lossman 6 2

Gerrard 6 2

Charlie Batch 6 2

Michael Vick 6 0

Delhome 6 2

Grossman 6 1

Romo 6 2

Kitna 6 2

Brees 6 0

McNabb 6 2

Gradkowski 6 1

Brunell 6 1




Size is not the only thing that matters. (save the puns)

Arm Strength. Troy smith has consistantly hit receivers deep downfield in stride

Short Pass. Troy has consistantly hit the underneath routs even when his receiver was covered.

Blitz recognigion. Troy did an outstanding job of avoiding sacks and moving the ball against college football's top defense (Michigan) this season. Both when they blitzed and when they did not. He did that throughout most of his 3 seasons starting for OSU.

Pocket Awareness. Troy has shown the ability to stand in and deliver a pass in the face of trouble. Troy did not scramble as much this season as he did in years past.

Escapeability. Troy has shown the ability to escape a rush while still looking down field for open receivers.

Mobility. When necessary, troy has shown the speed and agility of a running back in the open field to gain extra yardage.

Leadership. Troy is the uncontested leader of his team.

Clutch performance. 3rd and long was never a fear to an OSU fan this season. I look at the thrid and 16 against Michigan and how he stood in the pocket and converted a 20 plus pass for the first down to answer Michigan's opening TD. He did many things like that throughout his 3 starting years at OSU.


In the NFL facts and odds can change every 5 to 10 years. This is a copycat league. If New Orleans goes to the NFC Championship with a 6ft QB, you can bet other teams will take a chance. Atlanta already has.

Taking Smith in the first round wouldn't be half the reach as say Chaun Thompson in the second would it? And Chaun Thompson has the "prototypical size" for his position.



If all you are going on is his size then perhaps you should reconsider. If all myself and other OSU fans are going on is the fact that he played for OSU then perhaps we should reconsider.

I have never said I want him in the 1st round, I would perfer one of the Tackles or the Guard from texas. But if they do pick him, I will welcome the kid with open arms. And watch as person after person shoots him down like they did Wimbley. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Would you have felt the same way if LeBron was 5'11"?

Most Mock drafts have him going to the Ravens and if he doesnt go there he is in the 2nd round. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Some people actually have JaMarcus Russell being drafted higher than Troy Smith.

Size:
J Russell- 6'6 260lbs
T.Smith- "6'1" <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> 215lbs

QB Rating:
J. Russell- 168.10
T. Smith- 167.87

Yards:
J. Russell- 2797
T.Smith- 2507

Completion %:
J. Russell 68.5
T.Smith- 67.0

Touchdowns:
J.Russell- 26
T.Smith- 30

Couple comments and these are just my opinion....


Ohio state players & fans, better not be taking Flordia to lightly, as I remember, in 2002 a Miami Hurricane team talk about a OSU team that was talented, but couldnt hang a whole game with them.....and we know that out come... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Buckeyes set out to win the National Championship as a team, they played to get this chance, they didnt play for Troy just to win the hiesman...The season isnt over, nor is the hard work....it's scarey to think about the possible let down or to start believeing thier unbeatable.....


Love Troy, but if we draft Troy and pass on our two biggest glaring weakness i'll be upset, because not even Troy will be able to complate passes on his back.....