DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus NFL players seeking month dedicated to social activism

U have no clue what i think .... well .... unless u been reading what i think in PF ... but thats irrelivent at this point ...

Last time I'm asking ... if u don't want to answer it ... I'll go respond to your initial response IN KIND ...

We gonna be civil and talk or we going back to the Wild West days .... let me know ... if u don't answer .... ill go respond in kind ...

Let me know ... and u will with or w/o a response, no response and you'll have to flex on me ... *LMAO* ...

STUPID LONG WINDED ME can't even shorten a sentance ... DAMM IT ... *L* ...

i thought we were replying to each other civil. unless you want to fight.

That Dove ad was straight up offensive and I dont know how they could ever think that was a good idea.

Kinda like the NFL players thinking kneeling for the Anthem would bring attention to their cause but it backfired and they were taken for unpatriotic fools.

No desire to go back to the old days ... if u chose that option i would have not responded ... i dont wanna be that guy anymore ... its not me ... that was way out of character for me ...

I wasn't sure how to take your first response ... I could have taken it a lot of ways and just wanted clarification before i replied ...

we're good so don't worry about it.

discussions with you have been pleasant lately and it's good cause i value your input.

Roger Goodell sends letter to NFL teams, wants players to stand during anthem

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20980...national-anthem

The NFL has developed a plan to "move past" its ongoing debate about player protests during the national anthem and could enact it next week, commissioner Roger Goodell wrote Tuesday in a letter to all 32 teams.

Goodell made it clear in the letter, obtained by ESPN's Adam Schefter, that he wants players to stand during the anthem. He did not provide specifics on how he intends to ensure it, but he wrote that it would "include such elements as an in-season platform to promote the work of our players on these core issues."

The issue will be discussed, and likely acted upon, during the NFL's regularly-scheduled fall meetings on Oct. 17-18.

The NFL has developed a plan to "move past" its ongoing debate about player protests during the national anthem and could enact it next week, commissioner Roger Goodell wrote Tuesday in a letter to all 32 teams.

Goodell made it clear in the letter, obtained by ESPN's Adam Schefter, that he wants players to stand during the anthem. He did not provide specifics on how he intends to ensure it, but he wrote that it would "include such elements as an in-season platform to promote the work of our players on these core issues."

The issue will be discussed, and likely acted upon, during the NFL's regularly-scheduled fall meetings on Oct. 17-18.

President Donald Trump has called on NFL owners since last month to fire players who do not stand for the anthem, saying their protest "disrespects the flag" and the country. The issue intensified last weekend, when Vice President Mike Pence walked out of the 49ers-Colts game because more than 20 players from the 49ers kneeled during the anthem.

Players involved in the protest, which began in 2016 with 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick, have said they are protesting police brutality and racism -- not the flag itself. But many NFL owners have grown concerned about the appearance of unpatriotic acts and, on Sunday, Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said he would bench any player who kneeled.

Trump says U.S. should change tax law to punish NFL

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20978787/president-donald-trump-says-us-change-tax-law-punish-nfl

WASHINGTON -- President Donald Trump is suggesting the United States change its tax laws to punish organizations like the NFL if members are "disrespecting" the national anthem or flag.

A growing number of NFL players have chosen to kneel or sit during the playing of the anthem this season as a way to protest social injustice.

Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump

Why is the NFL getting massive tax breaks while at the same time disrespecting our Anthem, Flag and Country? Change tax law!
6:13 AM - Oct 10, 2017

34,450 34,450 Replies
26,698 26,698 Retweets
111,371

During a conference call with reporters Tuesday, NFL spokesman Joe Lockhart said, "As most of you know, the NFL gave up its tax exempt status in 2015. The idea that we receive a tax break is not true."

So it's unlikely that Trump's proposal, tweeted in the early hours Tuesday, would change anything.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell sent a memo to league owners in 2015 explaining that the tax-exempt status, which the league had since 1942, was a "distraction" as media and fans often confused the league office with the entire business of the league.

There was a secondary benefit for league executives -- they no longer are obligated to publicly disclose their salaries. The league office in New York was required to disclose its filings because it was classified as a non-profit organization, which it no longer is.

Like I have been saying, you have a good cause.

The NFL kneeling thing has worked against you because it was seen in a way you did not intend. Your message got lost as fans saw it as destroying one of the great American escapes, NFL Football, for everyone else, by making it political instead of fun. Fans were already upset by the softening of the NFL with rule changes on hits etc.
That is where your message got crushed by the anger of the fans.

The cause isn't over, you just need to find a new way of presenting it. Everyone is already aware of it but too ticked off to join in. At least everyone is aware and that is a big step.

Before i reply ... so u understand where I'm coming from ...

I blame Goodall and the owners for this ... 100% ... its their business, its there job to protect it ...



I don't like regs at all ... and I'd never support one that suppresses free speech ... best example i can give ....

Burning the american flag is way worse than crapping on it like these guys are doing in my eyes ... watching the american flag burn makes my skin crawl ... i hate it ... i would defend there right to make my skin crawl and burn the flag every day of the week if I had too ... I'd want to beat their ass when they did it but I'd defend there right to do it all day long ...

To me... free speech is free speech ..... free speech doesn't have any qualifiers based on my views and opinions ....

i don't look at this as a "free speech issue" ... and legally it isn't a free speech issue ...

at the end of the day, these guys are at work ... u don't have free speech rights at work .... a deli worker can't tell the customers that there choice of subs sucks and ask them how they can eat that crap .... they'd get fired in a heartbeat .... you'd lose customers .... and its a BUSINESS ...

I understand that u can't compare the skill set of a sub maker and an nfl player ... the example is only to show that theres no free speech in the work place ... so please don't go there ...

regardless of their intent one of the affects of their actions was to pee off a certain SIGNIFICANT % of the population .... those folks are showing their displeasure in many many ways and its going to affect the bottom line in a SIGNIFICANT FASHION ...

Thats why this is not a free speech issue to me ... these guys are at work ... they can't just do what they want .... theres workplace rules to follow and rule #1 is usually .... DON'T PEE OFF THE PAYING CUSTOMERS ....

Thats why this is not a free speech issue for me ....

Please let me know if you agree with the above and if you don't, why not?



I'll be curious to see how far were apart after I'm done explaining my views ... pretty sure there'll be a lot more common ground than u think now ...



I NEVER WANT TO SUPRESS VOICES .... EVER ... u learn when u listen, not when u talk ... u know, the whole two ears one mouth thing ... *L*

This was discussed in game day or PF 2 - 4 weeks ago ... here's basically what i said ...

- 1st and foremost if you want to raise awareness .. go for it ... but when theres so many other ways to do it why are u doing it in a manner that is peeing off a significant portion of the population ....

Is the goal to pee people off or to get people talking about racial injustice? ...

If the goal is to get people talking .. well they achieved that .... problem is LOOK WHAT THE COUNTRIES TALKING ABOUT ... sure, they've started dialogue ... but not the dialogue they wanted ...

The country needs to be unified now ... not further divided .... so why not protest by having everyone lock arms in unity over the racial injustices in the country ... i know when i saw them doing that a few weeks ago instead of their actions making me sick they made me feel good ...

There's a million other ways to do it ... a million ... raise your fists ... lock arms .... stay in the locker room ... let the victims of social injustice be part of the pre-game anthem ceremony somehow ...

BOTTOM LINE: do it in a way that fosters discussion about the issue instead of about the form of protest you chose ...

I'd also love to see some of the focus on some of the good that has actually come from this ... there has been some good .... just like almost everything else in life ... its not all bad ...

Like in c-town the team is working with the police to help create better relations ... there holding events with police and minority groups ... some of the players getting involved ... a pic of Crow with a few cops and a few inner Cory kids would go a lot further for me than him kneeling during the anthem ...

theres so much more to this ... the layers are endless ... this post is all ready to long ... one last thing then I'll end

Actually, I'll come later and reply to the rest ...

Diam, 40, and others...
The message is ‘lost’ as you say because you all changed the discussion toward the damn flag and the anthem. You changed the message. Not the players. They still have the same message.
But I guess you don’t see that. Never will either.

No, not true.

The first time we saw Kap kneel during the Anthem, that is when the message was lost as most of us thought the Dink was disrespecting America.

Nobody had to tell us he was wrong.
Nobody had to twist anything.
It was as plain as the nose on our faces.
Disrespect.

this is where we disagree.

i have acknowledged before that nfl owners can set whatever policy they see fit. they are a business. i've understood that since day one.

but my issue is that people on the OUTSIDE are forcing businesses to make regulation to REDUCE nfl players right to speech that said business ALLOWED.

obviously the owners care about their bottom line, but ethically it still doesn't make it right. it is absolutely a suppression by people, which sucks because there are people who want this to happen and don't even watch football on a regular basis.

and that sucks because as a minority, i'm seeing guys who look like you ticked off at us way more than the neo nazi's and pro confederate flag people.

you understand that, right? and then the reasoning to suppress us doesn't even make sense.

disrespect the military?

Diam, do you know your history? do you know how black vets have been treated historically in this country? did you know that the same vets y'all claim to care about, we had veterans of color being LYNCHED after WW1.

Where was the respect for those black WW2 vets? oh yea, people who looked like YOU decided they were good enough to die for this country, but not good enough to go to school with your children.

where was the "respect" for the military then? where was the "Respect" for the military when those guys came home from Nam and got called baby killers? where was the "respect" while we have homeless soldiers on the streets, vets struggling to receive proper medical treatment, and so many with mental problems?

where was the "Respect" for the military when half the country believed in that Jade Helm BS? it went from "respect" to "omg these jack booted thugs are trying to take us over" in an INSTANT.

^^^^^^ all that lets me know that this crap about disrespecting vet is exactly that: crap.

I'm a vet, and I don't feel disrespected whatsoever.

but guess what Diam? the same people who make that claim and say their patriots have disrespected my service all the time.

two people already questioned my service and whether i actually cared about america.

but that's not disrespectful? who do you think I see as being more disrespectful?

the military is once again being used as a talking point by people who couldn't give twp craps on a day to day basis.

the flag means jack crap. a flag can mean whatever anybody wants it to mean. Go ask the Nazi's about having pride in the Swastika, then go look up the history of that symbol around the world prior to the 1930's. Hell, you ALREADY have a taste of flags meaning different things just by the crap we deal with with regards to the confederate flag.

that flag represents slavery and white supremacy. yet to people who look like YOU, that flag means heritage and culture.

culture of what, Diam?

you guys claim that nfl players are disrespecting the flag, but NOT ONE PERSON on this board said a damn thing about this during charlottesville:



not one person on this board who trashes the nfl players said a damn thing about this when it was happening.

how disrespectful is that, Diam? that these guys will combine that nasty treacherous symbolism to the american flag?

but where was your outrage about that?

oh, that's right bro. you and others say something along the lines of "well, i don't agree with what they are doing, but they have a right to do it".

^^^^^^^^ the most common argument from that entire situation.

so here i am, a minority, as well as other minorities around the country, have to understand THAT point of view and respect their rights to do it, yet the nfl players who are kneeling for the flag, using the SAME rights, are NOT getting the same support from you.

*****THERE WAS NO RULE**** about protesting the anthem in the NFL.

which means the players were well within their RIGHTS to do so. but now people who look like YOU want to suppress what is a predominately black protest by having those businesses ban protest.

yet the people who look like YOU won't ban the FREAKING KLAN from protesting as well? won't ban nazi's from protesting as well? those people KILLED other fellow americans, but that's ok, right? we fought a war against the Nazi's, how in god's name are they allowed to do ANYTHING here on american soil?

but you'll protect their rights before you protect ours. that says a lot, guys.

have you EVER tried to look at it from our perspective? i've said all of this in the most respectful way possible.

and sorry bro but i've been over this false narrative about bringing up these issues in a different format.

we've done peaceful protest, we have million man marches, we have local marches and such all the time.

and it doesn't get news coverage, and guys like you don't pay attention to it.

but you pay attention THIS way. so mission accomplished.

You thought he was disrespecting Murika?
Well like many other thoughts you have, you were wrong. He was kneeling to raise awareness of police injustices. Racial injustice.
But you thought....so that overrides reality. Which is par for the course for you.

So instead of doing this maybe it's time to change your strategy to something that works.

That may be the message you got from it but the real world saw the guy as an anti Murica disrespectful Dink.

The message was then lost before it began.

Worst marketing campaign for a cause in Murican History!

nfl players peacefully protesting is catching more heat than klansmen and white nationalist who committed a terrorist attack.

America.

You know at one point, we had citizens dumping ice water on their head and thinking they were doing something?

Ok, a Black Man explained it to me this way...

It is as if he decided to open a restaurant in Harlem where all his staff wore white outfits with white hoods.

The customers got real mad!

He tried to explain to them that the white was meant to show their cleanliness and the hoods prevented hair and such from getting into peoples food.

The customers booed and walked out!

He insisted his message of cleanliness was good for the customers and it didn't hurt to have Blacks being served by what looks like Klan. He refused to change, he forced it on his customers until they came to their senses!

The customers rioted and his restaurant burned to the ground.

Bad Marketing idea, ticked off the customers who pay for everything. Boondoggle!

Sorry about that ...

I see it just fine ... understanding why they chose a form of protest that was going to pee 1/2 the country off .... thats my problem ... i don't understand ...

I'd also say between BLM, Antifa, the confederate statue debacle, the white supremacist the racial injustice conversation NEVER DIES!!! There's always something going on to bring it to the front and center ....

Just curious ... is it ok for me to think that their form of protest is crapping on my flag and all that served for it? ... if its OK for me to think that, then can i express my beliefs that their crapping on my flag? ...

That's ok by me. Except one little thing there bro. The flag is not yours. It represents every American citizen equally. Or it's supposed to. Hence the protest when it doesn't.

this is what is often lost in the argument when debating how people should treat symbols.. we are all entitled to feel differently about them based on our own beliefs and experiences... because they are symbols...

This is one of the better posts this forum has ever seen.

The flags not mine, it represents everyone .... u sitting down? ... WE AGREE ....

The flag represents everyone and thats cool as hell ... it also means DIFFERENT THINGS to everyone ... i think thats pretty cool also ....

Please see my comments (and question) in the Roger 180 thread.

So you agree they are doing something wrong...wouldn't you want to get people on your side if you want them to support you? Not tick them off?

Quoted for truth.

Or all the Black on Black crime.

Separate issue, used as a convenient "change the subject" dodge.

YOUR issue is being dealt with as well. Lack of press does not equal lack of effort.

klansmen and white nationalist YOUR issue is being dealt with as well. Lack of press does not equal lack of effort.
Separate issue, used as a convenient "change the subject" dodge.

If you resolve the Black on Black crime you will by default reduce the Police on Black issues,,,why would it be a different issue?

You know why.....

Read through my posts.

You will not find me talking about those disgusting creatures. I'll thank you in advance to NOT put words in my mouth. Your failed misdirection play compromises your credibility.

To add, white nationalist are all our problems. It needs to be shouted down from everyone.

I can't do it.

It won't work if I try. Folks will just take the adversarial stance, and that will be that.

You've already seen evidence of it in other conversations here. I tell of events from my actual life, and get maybe one or two people willing to listen. At least 4 times as many line up to take shots at my post, as if it was a debate point instead of historical (or biographical) fact.

After awhile, it becomes obvious that "some people you just can't reach"... so I just don't bother.

I tell my life events to bring some backstory to my views, because nobody responds well to lectures. But when folks want to argue instead of converse, it shows me that I won't be getting through. At least not today.

Thanks for all our good talks over the years.
You should know how much I appreciate it.
An evening of talk and brews would be quite welcomed by me.

Stop crying and show us a post from anyone who supports white supremes or KKK or Nazis. Just one will do.

I can find posts where people support BLM and ANTIFA.

They refuse to see if you cut down on Black on Black crime you cut down on the amount of contact with police and Blacks. You lessen the contact you lessen the odds of problems.

There is a lot people won't see in order to help themselves.