DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The quiet emergence of Shon Coleman

Seems to have mastered holding to snuff drives. Everything else is just details, fine tuning.

Glad he is working with JT. Thought we were done with the farcical Schwartz splat.

Hope he improves more.

So there's 32 starting RT's in the NFL and being rated #29 puts you in the middle of the pack? I guess so if you're including all of the back up RT's in the NFL.

You say #29 puts him in the middle of the pack? And then you question the math of others? Really?

It's all tackles, Pit. Not just right tackles. So yeah, really. And the note was to help realize that, not insult anyone's IQ. Thanks for playing though.

He's rated 29th out of all OTs, which would be 64 total since each team has 2.

People can rate him anywhere they like. But he's not there yet. Now I'm not saying he can't progress. But he's nowhere close to deserving that rating.... yet.

According to you. Let's qualify that correctly. FTR, I'm not commenting on where he is rated, or whether I agree with the rating or not. I'll just say that I'm glad he's improving, and hope he continues to do so. Getting our RT problem solved would be huge.

It would be. It would be fantastic actually. And far be it from me to say he can't do it. He has some limitations to overcome like footwork and lateral movement. Both ingredients that a true RT must possess. But I've seen players do it before. Schwartz for one developed quite nicely.

Maybe I addressed things a little wrong. I'm not saying he can't do it. My point was that saying he's emerging at this point is a little premature.

And getting the RT spot solved is all that matters at this point ...

The FO screwed up and Schwartz is gone ... hes not coming back ... hes irrelivent in our RT problem ...

Lets hope Coleman’s the solution ... this is basically his rookie year ... right now he’s not up to snuff ... hopefully he improves and solves the problem ...

If not, back to the drawing board ... a place we seem to spend way to much time at .. *L* ...

The part I find most encouraging is that he learns and takes coaching well. For example fixing his propensity to bend at the waste and lose leverage. He seems to be improving in that area. Not saying he won't relapse from time to time, but it's a huge deal if he can get that fixed.

What I find intriguing,
If he's so damn good at run blocking,why can't we run the ball?

It would be interesting to chart where the runs have been going. However, we certainly can't put the lack of a run game on the RT. I see a lot of running up the middle, and I also see us abandoning the run when we fall a little behind.

The Browns have a lot of $$$$$$$$$$ tied up in this so so line .. Maybe Hogan can make them look better ??

I'm assuming that's the plan.

Actually from what I've seen, the run is more successful, more often when ran to the left. The right? Not so much.

So is it Coleman, the FA G Zeitler or the FA C Tretter? Maybe it's simply the fact that the three of them haven't played together as a unit on that right side long enough for things to gel?

Then instead of using those rankings, why don't you break down what you've seen from Coleman? You're good enough at evaluating talent to have an opinion rather than using some stat boy.

Tell me just how wrong my opinion is Tab based on your own? Are you saying you actually think he's a leaque average starting RT? I didn't think so.

I admit that I have been concentrating more on Coleman's pass protection than his run blocking ability, but it sure doesn't seem like we've had many holes when we run to the right.

That's what I've seen as well, but PFF! lol

lol. If I may, this is just pure speculation on both your parts. You may be right, but without stats or a chart of the runs to back you up, forgive me if I don't buy into your "I've seen more of this than that" assessments.

That's fine. May I suggest you actually watch the running game to see what is working and what isn't. I don't use all of the stat sites but I'm sure that would be easily available to anyone wishing to dispute my opinion.

The left side is more effective in run blocking than the right side is. It's only obvious if you watch. I don't need anyone to tell me what I can already see.

My point was that one side is doing a better job than the other side right now.

I actually believe that they haven't had the time working together as a unit with only five games under their belt. What I won't do is pretend they're doing a good job when the only stat that really matters, our running stats prove they're not doing a good job.

Stats can be manipulated. What can't be manipulated is that our running game stinks right now. That's a product of the OL.

I've been looking for anything that might bear that out and all I can find is highlight tape. Can't find any stats on it either. And as I said, you may be right, but for all I know it's just wishful thinking or a preconceived notion. I've watched the same games you have, and I couldn't tell you if they're more successful running one way or the other but maybe you're some kind of a savant with a photographic memory.

Also, I would assume the left side is more effective at blocking since it's Thomas and Bitonio -vs- Coleman & Zeitler so it's not like that's some sort of profound revelation. We may be more effective running left, we may not. I would imagine so, but I don't know.

Your original question was, why aren't we running better? My answer that you can't blame the lack of our running game solely on the right tackle still stands. So here's another question. If the blocking is so good running left, why aren't we doing it more and improving our run game dramatically?

You can't run in either direction all of the time.

It's an interesting discussion. Are they stacking the box? Are the holes closing too quickly? Are the RB's timing off? Are they hitting the wrong holes? It is an effect of not sticking with it? All the above? Bottom line, it's frustrating as hell.

It is frustrating and I think it's a combination of some things you have listed.

Runs:

Right Side 39 135 3.5
Left Side 28 102 3.6
Middle 15 69 4.6

It looks like we're somewhat evenly distributed across the board except for run plays called up the middle.

Is there something wrong w/speculating even when I clarified that it was just an observation?

Or, are you just getting upset if someone doesn't agree that Coleman is playing as great as some amateur reporter is saying he is?

wait a minute, pit. Are you seriously suggesting that our running game behind a ten time all pro ttackle and a pro bowl guard on the left is more effective than running behind a new guard to the system and a first year starter at tackle. Seriously??? that is a radical suggestion!!

Why in the world would anyone care enough to manipulate stats about him??

A quick Google search resulted in this interesting factoid: PFF has Mitchell Schwartz rated as the #25 tackle this year.

So, he moved up 4 spots w/out playing a game? Interesting.

Where we have 3 pro bowl caliber blockers and are averaging 4.6 yards. Lol 15 times up the middle? No wonder we suck at running in the shotgun :lmao:

I take it you don't understand what the offensive numbering of the holes and/or the defensive letting of gaps?

But, bash keep bashing Hue w/nonsense because some posters will agree w/you.

Nice job!

What does the offensive linemen's jersey numbers have to do with running?

Hey braniac, you think a shotgun formation might just change the defense's personnel and thus their gap responsibilities? If you could even attempt to critically think while posting instead of just typing gibberish in an attempt to wake up your hands and stop them from tingling.

versatile, I am missing your point here. who moved up four spots without playing a game???

That answers that. Thanks for digging it up, Memphis.

Shocking revelation!
More shocking is how much we left the run and tried to go to Kizer who lost every one. If the talent is legit and he is stinking it up, run. Hue apparently forgot the priority he has reportedly assigned to run the ball. Silly to keep giving the ball to Kizer IMO.

Does this board see this as Hogan won a job he earned? Or do you think it is Kizer got benched for his glaring shortcomings?

I will pull for Hogan.

I think Hogan made himself impossible to ignore for the starting job.