DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Should the front office continue to get a pass?

Hell no! Inexperience is showing.

I had been holding onto the belief that they need a longer period of time. It used to be 5 full years. Then 4. Then 3. Then 2.

Now I want them gone. They CAN'T get our roster right. I don't want them making any more decisions for this franchise. ESPECIALLY at the QB position.

I honestly hope Hue & the coaches are retained and the new FO gives them a shot. But what are the odds of that happening?

I believe "T he Plan" is on track for the most part, but minus the expected few wins. It may be that Hue has lost faith in The Plan and is completely frustrated in trying to eke out the odd win. I have liked Hue as a Head Coach (perhaps not so much some of his play calling) and hope that the seeming dysfunction between him and the FO is a distortion of facts. Stay the course, Jimmy...

Sorry Vers, you bring in a FO, you also bring in a new coach.

Ray Farmer Bio - Prior to his position with the Browns, he was director of pro personnel for the Kansas City Chiefs from 2006 to 2012 and a scout for the Atlanta Falcons from 2002 to 2006.[4] Before working in the NFL, he was the academic coordinator for football at Duke University in 2001, and worked in TV and radio from 1998-2000.[1]

So 13 years in the NFL, various scouting and admin positions, and the HOTTEST GM candidate at the time does not qualify.

Look man, I am not trying to give credit to ray farmer, as I think he was the worst hire we had - but hindsight is 20/20, at the time he was the best hire we made.

I had hoped that the addition of a football guy to the front office to handle player acquisition was all that was needed. But it looks like our front office as currently constructed cannot do the job and need replacing. I just really hope that can be done without disrupting our coaching staff. The thought of changing offensive and defensive systems again is just too much. We need continuity on the field to improve.

Not sure where to put this ... not like its not obvious ... this just confirms what we all ready knew ...

Brian Hoyer - QB - Free Agent

Free agent QB Brian Hoyer is visiting the Patriots on Wednesday.

Hoyer, of course, began his career in New England as a Tom Brady backup. New England traded No. 2 QB Jimmy Garoppolo to the 49ers on Monday, costing Hoyer his job. Hoyer was actually originally part of the trade coming back to the Patriots, but the money was an issue. He's fully expected to sign with the Patriots on Wednesday and slide in as Brady's rest-of-season backup.

Related: Patriots

Think about this. We all get together with 200,000 or so of our closest friends, we come up with $10,000/ea and we buy the team from Jimmy for $2B. Who's in?

And a huge factor to why NE did the deal with SF, IMO.

Call his manger and tell him we'll triple the Patriots offer just to PO BB.

You act like just because we have an opening, those candidates want to come here. If he made them an offer, and they refuse, is that not going all in?

and Ray farmers resume looks just like that. . . .

Up to the point where they failed on being even in the discussion to get Jimmy G I was in agreement .... this changes things for me.

McCarron - I don't know what happened. I find it hard to believe the FO is as completely incompetent as portrayed by some. They have executed multiple trades and no the process - I have to believe something else is at play. I think we will find out eventually.

reports are that sashi assistant emailed the bengals....maybe sashi let his assistant handle it, and he bungled it. If that's the case, that's sashis fault and ineptness for not handling it himself. JMO

J/C

I completely agree with this article. It shows exactly how inept we are.

To say this has been quite a couple of days for the Cleveland Browns is like saying the 1906 earthquake shook up San Francisco.

In stunning fashion, the Browns first watched as the New England Patriots traded Jimmy Garoppolo to the San Francisco 49ers for an offer the Browns easily could -- and should -- have topped.

The next day, the Browns agreed to a trade with the Cincinnati Bengals for backup AJ McCarron that had them sending second- and third-round picks to the Bengals. Except the trade was not submitted on time. So the deal was not approved.

Which means the Browns now have traded picks that could have been Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson, did not make a trade for Garoppolo and then did make a trade for McCarron only to negate the deal by screwing up the paperwork.

To which I ask a question I've asked countless times before: Does this happen with other teams?



The Browns nearly gave up two prized picks for AJ McCarron -- a deal that fell through because of paperwork issues -- and didn't seem to have a clue that Jimmy Garoppolo was on the market. Christopher Hanewinckel/USA TODAY Sports

In no particular order I offer:
▪
The paperwork drama obscures that the Browns' search for a quarterback led them to give up two draft picks for McCarron. In the discussions of quarterback play and potential, McCarron is considered a nice player but not someone with the potential of a Wentz, Jared Goff or Garoppolo. Though he had a nice stretch at the end of 2015, he's not shown the talent of a Watson. The last time McCarron played was '15, and he averaged 7.2 yards per attempt. Cody Kessler averaged 7.1 for the Browns last season. A team devoid of quality play at the most important position on the team turned to ... McCarron?

*Yet the Browns were willing to give up two of their prized draft picks to get him. The need for a quarterback has been no secret for months. If the Browns wanted McCarron this badly, why in the heck did they wait until the last day and last minutes to complete any deal?

▪
Was this deal and ensuing confusion a reaction to not getting Garoppolo? Did the Browns overreact on one deal because they were caught off guard on another? These sure seem like fair questions.

▪
As for the paperwork, something stinks in Peoria. And Lakewood. And Cleveland Heights. And Berea. Sashi Brown is a former legal counsel. He handled paperwork and contracts and had to be aware of all league requirements. This is a Harvard-educated front office, for crying out loud. To have any kind of chaos on this trade, any kind of botched submission simply stinks in a skunk-ish kind of way. If the deal is completed at 3:55 p.m. and you like the deal, you do everything you have to do to make sure everything is submitted on time. That the Browns didn't is one more embarrassment on a pile of embarrassments that is starting to look like Mount Vesuvius.

▪
The Bengals told cleveland.com that they submitted their paperwork, that they never received anything signed from the Browns and that the Browns didn't submit their paperwork. The website also reported that the Bengals copied the Browns on their submissions. Judge for yourself who dropped the paperwork.

▪
There seems to be a feeling that the Browns simply did not want to complete the deal because they didn't want to give up their draft picks. The Browns will have to answer this at some point -- you hope they will answer it at some point -- but filing paperwork is not complex. Teams have the paperwork. If a deal is close, you're prepared. Once it's agreed to, you submit it.

▪
This also makes a pretty clear statement about DeShone Kizer. The Browns were willing to part with golden draft picks for a backup not considered elite. The logic would be that McCarron knows coach Hue Jackson's offense and could step in right away and maybe win a couple of games to erase some of the stench of losing. That would put Kizer on the sidelines. The Browns may feel that Kizer has a brilliant future in Cleveland, but clearly his accuracy and turnovers had become too much, at least for the short term.

▪
As for Garoppolo: If the Browns weren't aware he was back on the market, they failed. It's their job to know these things, and to act on them. There are a lot of theories out there about why Patriots coach Bill Belichick sent him to San Francisco -- among them that he could get a backup he knew and liked in Brian Hoyer once he traded his own backup -- but the bottom line is this: It's the Browns' job to be aware what is happening. If they were in the least interested in Garoppolo, they had to be aware.

▪
The claim that Belichick would not trade Garoppolo to the Browns because he was mad they fired him holds water like a colander. Belichick is driven by winning. To think he'd have turned down the lower of the Browns' two first-round picks and perhaps a fourth-round pick (a fair price) for Garoppolo because he was mad at the Browns ... that's just ludicrous. He'd have taken the best offer. And clearly the 49ers were his best offer, because the Browns didn't know or didn't try to make their best offer.

▪
Kyle Shanahan has admitted that prior to the 2014 draft, when he was the Browns' offensive coordinator, he favored Derek Carr and Garoppolo. Others in the front office also favored Carr. Former Browns GM Ray Farmer was said to have favored Teddy Bridgewater. The Browns took Johnny Manziel, then wasted two years and sabotaged their own season that started 7-4 in trying to see if he could play. They have now wasted two more years trying to find the guy who will take his place.



What you need to know in the NFL


• Statistics
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There is no apparent solution on the immediate horizon, either, which means another year or perhaps two will be spent spinning through the slog that has become the Cleveland Browns.

Meanwhile, Wentz and Watson are the talk of the league, and Garoppolo is in San Francisco.

The Browns' solution: McCarron. Until he wasn't.

Link

the point is you are saying they have never hired anyone with experience, when we have. Banner/Lombardi had experience.

then you say we never hired anyone who came up through the nfl, when we had. Ray Farmer did.

Now you are saying Farmer wasn't ready - hindsight. at the time he had multiple offers and was the hottest GM prospect in the league. Haslem got him to sign here.

Haslam has made bad decision and wrong decision each hire, I do not dispute that, what I am saying is your analysis of those hires is wrong.

Willy,
Part of the problem with the Browns Management has been the owner! Haslam is part of the problem. Look at your last quote


That was Haslams crap pick all day!!!. Everybody else wanted someone else except the owner! Now of course, Farmer fell on his sword and took the blame but that was a Haslam pick.

Farmer's biggest problem was that he learned from the Lombardi tree that think WRs are not necessary. But they don't know how to pick and use talent like Belicheck.

Also, do we really think the FO does not know how to use a fax machine?? As many trades/moves as they have made. Even though it makes the Browns look crazy, we lucked out. A HIGH 2 or 3 for McCarron was just a over reaction for missing out on JG.

As far as the current FO, Haslam should bring in a football GM to work with them. Sashi can handle the money/cap space, let Depodesta and the new GM work with Hue.

Here are the emails Benjamin Allbright promised to release regarding the coaching staff, the FO and the Garoppolo situation.

This team is such a mess.....

Benjamin Allbright Verified account
@AllbrightNFL
There's more as I get permission.






Here is the link so you can read the emails....

Tweet

My eyes are bleeding.

Someone, I need a blood transfusion.

I might come up with the money just so I can sit in a room and watch this group try to figure out who is going to lead it and make the decisions... I'll be the one in the back corner.. behind the brick wall... wearing the kevlar vest and helmet.

"Old, washed up"?

Three people come to mind that wrote this. One is GMDawg.

the colossal boondoggle that this week has become may have saved Hue Jackson's reputation to a large degree..

He was lumped in with everybody else when it came to criticism and why we sucked so bad... it appears to me that folks are just starting to feel bad for him as they begin to realize the mountain of incompetence he is standing behind trying to win.

My thought was Bob Wylie. Had a previous stint in Denver where Benjamin Allbright is located. Just a guess.

That was #2. The other was Bob Saunders but I don't think he'd do that.

j/c:


https://twitter.com/_PeteSmith_/status/925775618784092160

I don't care what happens right now, just so they fire Hue!!! If not now, at the end of the season. Don't let the FO make another decision whatsoever!!!!!!

edit: not replying to you specifically

Like I wrote/asked in the other thread: Who hires the head coach and GM, and who holds them responsible?

Sashi Brown is incompetent and doesn't work very hard. I get that. Now who hired the lawyer to be in charge of football personnel, and who lets him go home during the afternoon the day before the trade deadline?

It all starts at the top.

j/c

There is some deafening silence about this whole mess in Berea. The tension must be insane. Is something going to give soon? Anyone?? ANYONE???

we are getting ripped on national TV right now.

my boys saw the first take episode today ripping the browns and started texting me trash talk.

it's really painful to be a fan of such a trash team.

That just shows you how WEAK Haslam is!!.. If you are the owner/leader of the team, either the owner OR FO have to come out and show leadership!!..

They either should fall on their swords/admit their mistakes and/or explain their process. PERIOD!!.. Hiding all this time shows how the leadership is. And please do not send Hue out to face the music!!!.. But I can almost bet Haslam will hide!

And it's extremely quiet in Berea.

It'd be a great time for someone (Manning?) to step in here and be a hero. You know there's a number of guys out there who believe IF GIVEN FULL CONTROL can right this ship.

No way Sashi gets a pass this offseason. They may keep the analytics guys buy continuing the Sashi Brown charade has to end. I don't even care about the he said she said of him not working 8 hour days....if ever there was "smartest guy in the room syndrome" Sashi is the poster boy.

Everyone take a deep breath, and step away from anything that's fragile.

On Sunday, Brock Osweiler will be paid $1 million by the Browns to play a game against the 7-1 Eagles led by Carson Wentz.

Thanks Sashi.

I think paying for Osweiler was a good move. I just don't want Sashi around to botch the pick when it's time to cash it in. Like I care what Jimmy Haslam spends on players when he is sitting on 100m in cap space.

He has a college degree from a prestigious university, and a Harvard degree isn't what it once was. Let's just leave it at that.

A genuinely very smart person could not fail this badly at building a football team, even if that wasn't the person's expertise going in.

Amen brother... somebody has to come out in front of the camera and say, "Look, this is what happened...." and then tell the freaking truth. If somebody screwed up, just admit it...

That is absolutely CLASSIC.

I actually didn't mind 'buying' the second round pick so much. The Texans and Browns were in very different situations at the time and it was a trade that made sense for both sides. It just kind of factors into the whole absurdity of the situation, especially when keeping him on the roster was an option as well.