I appreciate the alternate approach of the author, and I can see some rationale in what he is saying...but the bottom line is that Sashi Brown's "rationality" has lost us a bunch of talent, which is the primary reason we are 1-23. We are markedly worse.
The other fact to consider is that he is an attorney who has had no experience as a talent evaluator, or deciding which personnel should/shouldn't be a part of a team before last year. In that same vein, maybe Peen and I should run the personnel side of the Browns.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
Take your pick as to reasons Belichick did not want to sent JG to the Browns...lack of trust in Browns FO, still holding grudge for firing, doing what is JG's best interest...
...what the name "The Cleveland Browns" represents, has become so TOXIC, that some teams would rather NOT deal with our front office and the last place players want to be traded to is the Browns.
I think something very interesting that doesn't get a mention was Jason La Canfora suggesting Josh McDaniels (Patriots OC) will be Haslam's target for HC and Nick Caserio (Patriots DPP) will be Haslam's target for GM.
If that's true, can we blame Belichick for not wanting Garappolo to be a Cleveland Brown? If that trade could very potentially cause his long-time OC and most trusted FO asset to move out on their own, to a team in the AFC, that alone would undoubtedly influence a trade.
Instead, Bill sent Jimmy Garappolo to an NFC team who have their coach and GM locked in to fresh 6 year contracts with the promise they'll play out those contracts.
The talk about "Did the Browns even know/inquire" is something I find odd. Let's pretend the Browns front office had no idea Garappolo was on the trade block. 100% ignorant. Okay, so why didn't the Patriots call and explicitly say it? They knew the Browns were willing to offer more than a 2nd just months ago.
If I was a GM trading away my back-up QB, I'd want every single QB needy team to be involved with the discussion. You don't need to be an economist to know that greater demand equals greater cost. It seems totally unreasonable that the Patriots would accept a 2nd from the 49ers but wouldn't approach the Browns, whom they know were already prepared to offer more.
I don't believe for a second that Belichick just didn't want Garappolo in Cleveland because we're a bad team. That's nonsense. He traded them to a bad team that's more empty than we are in a tougher division - and what talent they do have is damn near over the hill.
The idea he was trying to prevent a situation in which Caserio and McDaniels could be attracted to a situation with 1. A lot of picks and, 2. A quarterback they felt comfortable building around is not unrealistic, in my opinion.
I don't believe for a second that Belichick just didn't want Garappolo in Cleveland because we're a bad team. That's nonsense. He traded them to a bad team that's more empty than we are in a tougher division - and what talent they do have is damn near over the hill.
As of now, that does appear to be the case..BB didn't want JG to be a member of the Browns experiment and knew that Shannahan and Lynch would be a better opportunity for JG.
Quote:
The idea he was trying to prevent a situation in which Caserio and McDaniels could be attracted to a situation with 1. A lot of picks and, 2. A quarterback they felt comfortable building around is not unrealistic, in my opinion.
BDU.,..actually, I have posted about Caserio and McDaniels...several times.
... Josh McDaniels (Patriots OC) will be Haslam's target for HC and Nick Caserio (Patriots DPP) will be Haslam's target for GM.
As much as I may like that scenario, I don't see that happening. IMO, BB retires when Brady retires (in a year or two) with Josh McD taking over as Head Coach. The succession is in place with only Brady's replacement to be established...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
So, Mac - are you agreeing that there was no way that JG was going to be traded here? Essentially that he was unavailable to us...
unless the offer was one you just couldn't refuse.
And the key to the trade was Brian Hoyer. A component that we couldn't match...
so you think BB gave up at least a 3rd round pick for hoyer?
Draft picks are on paper. They can't play backup...
BB at the point of the trade had only Brady. He can't trade JG without bringing in a QB. With SF having a QB who already knows the Patriot system, making the deal so Hoyer gets cut just makes sense for everyone.
... Josh McDaniels (Patriots OC) will be Haslam's target for HC and Nick Caserio (Patriots DPP) will be Haslam's target for GM.
As much as I may like that scenario, I don't see that happening. IMO, BB retires when Brady retires (in a year or two) with Josh McD taking over as Head Coach. The succession is in place with only Brady's replacement to be established...
Both Nick Caserio and McDaniel would have to wait at least 2 more seasons. Both are qualified NOW and with both being from Ohio and being linked to each other since college, maybe they have the desire to move on now, rather than 2 or 3 yrs from now.
... Josh McDaniels (Patriots OC) will be Haslam's target for HC and Nick Caserio (Patriots DPP) will be Haslam's target for GM.
As much as I may like that scenario, I don't see that happening. IMO, BB retires when Brady retires (in a year or two) with Josh McD taking over as Head Coach. The succession is in place with only Brady's replacement to be established...
Both Nick Caserio and McDaniel would have to wait at least 2 more seasons. Both are qualified NOW and with both being from Ohio and being linked to each other since college, maybe they have the desire to move on now, rather than 2 or 3 yrs from now.
Possible, mac. IIRC, McD had a head coach opportunity a few years ago, and decided to stay in NE.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
I just don't see the incompetence all are claiming here.
I don't like the fact that Hue and Sashi were not on the same page on this. Not at all.
Was it a power struggle...we have seen that before. Can they still mend the rift and work together.
Meaning NOBODY GETS FIRED.
I don't think it was a good deal - I get it Hue wants to win more than lose the last 8 games. But it was a lot to give up for a guy who would not be a franchise QB and just get us some wins in Hue's system.
I wish there was another way they could have worked this out and settle it. Which in the past it seemed like they have.
At the Browns site they don't even mention this as if its gone and past. Is that the quiet before the Storm? I hope not.
I don't like the deal.
I would love for us to start winning more than losing this 2nd half even if it costs us the first overall pick.
year 3 is a big year. Barclay and Mayfield in the first round then 3 more picks in the 2nd for a OT and Defense.
Lets finish this rebuild. With all intact.
As I have stated I can see one addition. Payton on top.
Nobody gets fired. I still like the direction.
Lets mend this.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
So, Mac - are you agreeing that there was no way that JG was going to be traded here? Essentially that he was unavailable to us...
unless the offer was one you just couldn't refuse.
And the key to the trade was Brian Hoyer. A component that we couldn't match...
so you think BB gave up at least a 3rd round pick for hoyer?
Draft picks are on paper. They can't play backup...
BB at the point of the trade had only Brady. He can't trade JG without bringing in a QB. With SF having a QB who already knows the Patriot system, making the deal so Hoyer gets cut just makes sense for everyone.
That was my point...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Just a question, anyone know how long it usually takes for a trade to get done from agreement in principle to actually hammering out the language and being finalized? 1 hour? 30 minutes? 15 minutes? 6 minutes?
I don't think it was a case of insubordination. I think Haslam caved to Hue's desperate desire for a QB (or grasping for any straw) at the last second despite the bad price and misalignment with the plan, but there just wasn't enough time to get it done. They tried to rush the paperwork through, even sending a final version of the contract through to Cincinnati to forward to the league office rather than spending time they didn't have to send stuff back and forth to make the language match.
Losing sucks. Do it long enough and people get desperate. Desperation rarely ends well.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
so you think BB gave up at least a 3rd round pick for hoyer?
Draft picks are on paper. They can't play backup...
BB at the point of the trade had only Brady. He can't trade JG without bringing in a QB. With SF having a QB who already knows the Patriot system, making the deal so Hoyer gets cut just makes sense for everyone.
That was my point...
or having delt with this FO before they knew there wasnt enough time to get a deal done?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight" is a good name for them.
Twain's "History of a Campaign That Failed" offers some insights.
There is a reason some approaches to Football are non-traditional: They didn't work. An exception would be that 'forward pass' thing. Just because you can do it, that doesn't mean you should try it. In a weird Catch-22, we don't gare embrace this status quo the Harvards and Haslams (H & H? Old enough for green stamps reference?) have put us in. They built us a corner that we painted ourselves into. Something has to change. Or things. It just astounds me with the picks and drafts how we manage to maintain our lousiness.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
so you think BB gave up at least a 3rd round pick for hoyer?
Draft picks are on paper. They can't play backup...
BB at the point of the trade had only Brady. He can't trade JG without bringing in a QB. With SF having a QB who already knows the Patriot system, making the deal so Hoyer gets cut just makes sense for everyone.
That was my point...
or having delt with this FO before they knew there wasnt enough time to get a deal done?
I doubt that BB ever intended to do a deal with the Browns...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
It's great to speculate on what happened. Everyone trying to read between the lines.
But the answer is right there in front.
SF got Garoppolo for a second rounder then released Hoyer so the Pat's had a backup.
Sashi blew this. We have three second rounders. We could have made this deal. When there is a will to do it; there is a way to get done.
We have Kessler and Hogan. Yes they don't have the experience that Hoyer has in the Belichick system. I get that part.
But we have the draft capital to sweeten the deal. Make an off that can't be refused. If Sashi sees Garoppolo for what he is.
There in lies the problem. He didn't see Wentz for what he is. He has no clue in what to look for in a quarterback.
Now we go into draft season with all these top picks and we are supposed to rely on Sashi Brown to evaluate talent? Please.
The path that Haslam has to realize is really quite simple. Find the best talent evaluator. Peyton is a good place to start. Make him President. Try to have him keep the coaching staff at least another year. Let him build the FO.
Try to have him keep the coaching staff at least another year.
will not help one bit.. I dont know if people realise the damage the FO did to this team.. they made it into a real expansion team. unbelievable people on this board wanted that.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
We all KNOW the Haslems are apt to be stupid, irrational, and emotional...
i must have missed that.. care to explain?
Hi, you must be new to the Cleveland Browns fans base. May I suggest recent readings on how they have handled the franchise since purchasing it a few years back.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I guess we could have sweetened the deal. But maybe this goes a long way to prove that not every NFL FO thinks a draft pick is worth 16mil.
I mean this FO does and the fans gobbled it down like home made chicken soup. But in the grand scheme of things not everyone thinks a 50/50 shot at getting a player is worth 16mil.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
We all KNOW the Haslems are apt to be stupid, irrational, and emotional...
i must have missed that.. care to explain?
Hi, you must be new to the Cleveland Browns fans base. May I suggest recent readings on how they have handled the franchise since purchasing it a few years back.
hmm thats it? so you think we should have kept banner through thick and thin? you sure were not talking that way back then.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
I'm not defending, nor condemning, any specific move(s) and I will not address any attempts at cherry-picking, but the evidence is out there - the Haslams have demonstrated a very clear and concise record of knee-jerk reactions and not following a course during their exceptionally short tenure. Add in a Jerry Jones-like willingness to meddle (Manziel) and the given synopsis is by far the most likely explanation for everything.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Want to bet? I bet that Sashi has no problem finding employment.
And how is he a snake in the grass? In this whole fiasco, he seems to be the only one who was actually thinking. Hue and Jimmy were in panic mode. Dee was screaming at people.
A few days ago many were saying that nobody should get fired....what a few days brings...lol
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Want to bet? I bet that Sashi has no problem finding employment.
And how is he a snake in the grass? In this whole fiasco, he seems to be the only one who was actually thinking. Hue and Jimmy were in panic mode. Dee was screaming at people.
A few days ago many were saying that nobody should get fired....what a few days brings...lol
lmao.. him and his buddy cut the legs out from farmer going behind there back.. then he got his buddy fired to have the privlage to turn us into a expansionn team...
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
At this point its all water under the bridge. Cooler heads need to prevail and work together to see this through. Find out who thought what and why, then make a decision if you can keep them on despite mistakes. We all make them... Let Kizer work his way through the mess and see what we have at the end of the year. Use the 5 top picks we have next year on studs with no trading out. Start with Mayfield and go from there Heck.. take 2 QB's The front office HAS to learn we aren't going anywhere till we get a Franchise QB no matter the cost, and If I'm the owner .. I say you have a little more time.. but I'm not allowing anymore damage to my Billion Dollar investment.
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Heck.. take 2 QB's The front office HAS to learn we aren't going anywhere till we get a Franchise QB no matter the cost, and If I'm the owner .. I say you have a little more time.. but I'm not allowing anymore damage to my Billion Dollar investment.