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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I disagree with no trading out....I'd like tp trade up as much as possible.


I don't have a problem with UP .. just not back.

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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
Try to have him keep the coaching staff at least another year.


will not help one bit.. I dont know if people realise the damage the FO did to this team.. they made it into a real expansion team. unbelievable people on this board wanted that.


The FO initially had a plan which at the beginning everyone seemingly bought into. With the losses pilling up, some people have been faultering from staying the course. With the doubt and the pressure from outside sources (media, etc....), this has lead to knee-jerk reactions or pandering in the McCarron case. I believe 'The Plan' is solid, leading ultimately to long term success if only all people can stay in their lane and ride it out. If you're not on board and not committed, it is time to seek alternate employment.


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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I disagree with no trading out....I'd like tp trade up as much as possible.
.

Peen: I totally agree with your comment. Simply give me 4 or 5 quality picks instead of 27 gazillion newbies and we can make this work as envisioned...


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Quote:
I believe 'The Plan' is solid


absurd. they made us into a expansion team. didnt keep our best.. it was absurd.. the only good that came was Myles Garrett. ask who has jj watt how many wins that worth lol


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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
I believe 'The Plan' is solid


absurd. they made us into a expansion team. didnt keep our best.. it was absurd.. the only good that came was Myles Garrett. ask who has jj watt how many wins that worth lol


Step 1 of the plan - strip it down to a base from which to rebuild...


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Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
I believe 'The Plan' is solid


absurd. they made us into a expansion team. didnt keep our best.. it was absurd.. the only good that came was Myles Garrett. ask who has jj watt how many wins that worth lol


Step 1 of the plan - strip it down to a base from which to rebuild...


lmao. reason no one does it.. never survive the losing... if your dumb enough to think letting good players walk improves your team i just dont know what to say...


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we're 1-23, on track to be 0-16 this year, thats not a course i want to stay on.


It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
I believe 'The Plan' is solid


absurd. they made us into a expansion team. didnt keep our best.. it was absurd.. the only good that came was Myles Garrett. ask who has jj watt how many wins that worth lol


Step 1 of the plan - strip it down to a base from which to rebuild...


lmao. reason no one does it.. never survive the losing... if your dumb enough to think letting good players walk improves your team i just dont know what to say...


Not 'dumb', simply deaf to obtuse statements that lead nowhere...


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Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
I believe 'The Plan' is solid


absurd. they made us into a expansion team. didnt keep our best.. it was absurd.. the only good that came was Myles Garrett. ask who has jj watt how many wins that worth lol


Step 1 of the plan - strip it down to a base from which to rebuild...


lmao. reason no one does it.. never survive the losing... if your dumb enough to think letting good players walk improves your team i just dont know what to say...


Not 'dumb', simply deaf to obtuse statements that lead nowhere...


nothing said on this board leads anywhere lol


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Originally Posted By: Squires
we're 1-23, on track to be 0-16 this year, thats not a course i want to stay on.


Nothing wrong with 'The Plan"; the execution has left a little something to be desired as all are apparently not on the same page at this time...


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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
I believe 'The Plan' is solid


absurd. they made us into a expansion team. didnt keep our best.. it was absurd.. the only good that came was Myles Garrett. ask who has jj watt how many wins that worth lol


Step 1 of the plan - strip it down to a base from which to rebuild...


lmao. reason no one does it.. never survive the losing... if your dumb enough to think letting good players walk improves your team i just dont know what to say...


Not 'dumb', simply deaf to obtuse statements that lead nowhere...


nothing said on this board leads anywhere lol


A valid point...


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Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: Squires
we're 1-23, on track to be 0-16 this year, thats not a course i want to stay on.


Nothing wrong with 'The Plan"; the execution has left a little something to be desired as all are apparently not on the same page at this time...


yea there is something wrong with the plan. they reset us to a expanion team and are not making up for it in drafted talent... not to hard to understand is it?


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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: Squires
we're 1-23, on track to be 0-16 this year, thats not a course i want to stay on.


Nothing wrong with 'The Plan"; the execution has left a little something to be desired as all are apparently not on the same page at this time...


yea there is something wrong with the plan. they reset us to a expanion team and are not making up for it in drafted talent... not to hard to understand is it?


Overall, we have drafted very good. It is up to the coaching staff to apply potential to the field...


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Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: Squires
we're 1-23, on track to be 0-16 this year, thats not a course i want to stay on.


Nothing wrong with 'The Plan"; the execution has left a little something to be desired as all are apparently not on the same page at this time...


yea there is something wrong with the plan. they reset us to a expanion team and are not making up for it in drafted talent... not to hard to understand is it?


Overall, we have drafted very good. It is up to the coaching staff to apply potential to the field...


lmao... ok. its all the coahing lol


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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: Squires
we're 1-23, on track to be 0-16 this year, thats not a course i want to stay on.


Nothing wrong with 'The Plan"; the execution has left a little something to be desired as all are apparently not on the same page at this time...


yea there is something wrong with the plan. they reset us to a expanion team and are not making up for it in drafted talent... not to hard to understand is it?


Overall, we have drafted very good. It is up to the coaching staff to apply potential to the field...


lmao... ok. its all the coahing lol


Not what I inplied...and you know it!


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Still no press conference?


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Quote:
It is up to the coaching staff to apply potential to the field...


lmao... ok. its all the coahing lol


Not what I inplied...and you know it!


noooooo... why would i think that???????????


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I wonder how much this might have to do with Peyton Manning said to be in Cleveland a week or so ago...

The date of the story...Oct 31, 2017

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/10/31...t-j-browns-next



Haslams no longer control Flying Pilot J; Browns next?

By thaaak on Oct 31, 2017, 9:05am EDT

The Haslams' lost control of their 60 year family business, Pilot Flying J.

Since the FBI and IRS raid on Pilot's headquarters on tax day, April 15, 2013, Pilot's sales have plummeted $12.5 billion, a nose dive of 40 per cent.

These facts were omitted from press releases earlier this month when Berkshire Hathaway bought majority control of Pilot Flying J. The Haslams are left with 20 per cent ownership.

Pilots' sales figures are from the Forbes' rankings of largest private companies. Forbes is a global media company specializing in business news for a hundred years.

According to Forbes, Pilot Flying J had revenues of $32.1 billion in 2013 and $19.6 billion in 2017.

In the Forbes' ranking of largest family businesses, Pilot lost their top ten ranking. They dropped to 15th this year. In 2013, they were ranked seventh.

The family business admitted on July 11, 2013, to stealing $56 million from customers, cooking the books, and using verbal, rather than oral contracts to make theft easy.

Earlier this month, gross sales of $20 billion were reported in a press release dated October 5th by Berkshire Hathaway. This company is owned by Warren Buffett, one of the wealthiest men in the world according to Forbes.

For Cleveland Browns' fans, things get worse. The team remains winless, the front office refused to deal for New England QB Jimmy Garoppolo, and the Haslams, Dee and Jimmy, still own the team.


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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Want to bet? I bet that Sashi has no problem finding employment.

And how is he a snake in the grass? In this whole fiasco, he seems to be the only one who was actually thinking. Hue and Jimmy were in panic mode. Dee was screaming at people.

A few days ago many were saying that nobody should get fired....what a few days brings...lol



lmao.. him and his buddy cut the legs out from farmer going behind there back.. then he got his buddy fired to have the privlage to turn us into a expansionn team...



People pretending they know what is going on or simply making stuff up. Shocking.


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Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
Try to have him keep the coaching staff at least another year.


will not help one bit.. I dont know if people realise the damage the FO did to this team.. they made it into a real expansion team. unbelievable people on this board wanted that.


The FO initially had a plan which at the beginning everyone seemingly bought into. With the losses pilling up, some people have been faultering from staying the course. With the doubt and the pressure from outside sources (media, etc....), this has lead to knee-jerk reactions or pandering in the McCarron case. I believe 'The Plan' is solid, leading ultimately to long term success if only all people can stay in their lane and ride it out. If you're not on board and not committed, it is time to seek alternate employment.


While I agree with the sentiment from a team perspective, if you’re not with us you’re against us, but who really is the us in this scenario and what of the fans? As far as my fandom is concerned, I wasn’t aware regression was part of ‘The Plan’.

Wasn’t ‘The Plan’ supposed to be showing some dividends this season? We all suffered through last season as part of this rebuild but two lost seasons I didn’t think were in the mix. Also not in ‘The Plan” is the front office and coaching staff imploding into this gawd awful public relations nightmare of ineptitude they’ve created. Their failure to even address this situation is only furthering their ineptitude.

So I’m just one small voice in a chorus and not being someone who buys tickets, pays for parking, buys concessions and all that goes with being a local fan, I’m curious what the season ticket holders feel about this mess? Are you getting your monies worth? Is the team providing you with what your expectation was of ‘The Plan’?


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Quote:
I’m curious what the season ticket holders feel about this mess?




i got a pretty good idea of what they think.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I guess we could have sweetened the deal. But maybe this goes a long way to prove that not every NFL FO thinks a draft pick is worth 16mil.

I mean this FO does and the fans gobbled it down like home made chicken soup. But in the grand scheme of things not everyone thinks a 50/50 shot at getting a player is worth 16mil.


You post as if this cost us something. That 16 mil was simply Haslam's money not ours. It had nothing to do with not being able to utilize it for the team as we had MILLIONS of cap room to work with. The FO didn't put a number on the value they simply made sure the Owner was ok with spending that money. It didn't prevent us for making any move what so ever.

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Quote:
It didn't prevent us for making any move what so ever.


maybe maybe not.. might have stopped us from bringing in a vet QB...


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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
I’m curious what the season ticket holders feel about this mess?




i got a pretty good idea of what they think.


What year is this photo?


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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
I’m curious what the season ticket holders feel about this mess?




i got a pretty good idea of what they think.


What year is this photo?


every year lmao


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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
It didn't prevent us for making any move what so ever.


maybe maybe not.. might have stopped us from bringing in a vet QB...


I don't think for one moment we were seriously involved with BO...I think it was all a ploy to try to get a another draft pick out of him.

He was never in our plans. For two weeks he got the preseason start and in those two weeks the starter got maybe 4 series.

We were show casing him. When it came down for a decision Hue went with Kizer (game 3 where the starters all play a lot).

I mean it could be cause we don't know for sure...but all indications that I see he simply was not in our plans.

The mistake we made I thought was not keeping McCown but who knew??? And that was not a long term move just in the long run would have gotten us more wins and possibly out of the lottery picks???
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Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
I’m curious what the season ticket holders feel about this mess?




i got a pretty good idea of what they think.


What year is this photo?


every year lmao


Sure. Well considering they have the old uni's on, just making sure you're not trying to pawn it off as this year.


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Quote:
It didn't prevent us for making any move what so ever.


Our front and owner might have used some of that 16 mill to sign their own free agents..rather than kicking some of their best to curb.


Imagine that, a front office and owner rewarding their own players, signing them to long term contracts...

...what kind of message would that send to our lockerroom?


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Nah...no bearing at all on us signing our own.
smh


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Quote:
Imagine that, a front office and owner rewarding their own players, signing them to long term contracts...


Like Bitonio, Kirksey, Collins, Taylor?


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Didn't see this, didn't know where else to put it. FWIW.

Cleveland Browns never had chance for Jimmy Garoppolo, Terry's Talkin' -- Terry Pluto

Updated 6:57 AM; Posted Today 6:54 AM

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer terrypluto2003@yahoo.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In columns earlier in the week, I was extremely critical of the Cleveland Browns front office and their failure to trade for quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo.

I also have spent the last few days trying to figure out what happened between the Browns and New England Patriots before Garoppolo was dealt to the San Francisco 49ers for the 2018 second-round pick.

The Browns have been trying to trade for him for months -- dating back to before the draft. He was the quarterback the front office and coaching staff both really liked. It's nice when they agree on a quarterback.

League sources tell me the Browns talked to New England last on Friday, October 28. The Browns were told the Patriots had no interest in dealing Garoppolo. The Browns said to please call them if that changed.

The Browns definitely wanted to bid for Garoppolo. They were not discouraged by word that Garoppolo's agent reportedly said his client didn't want to go to Cleveland. Nor that the Patriots backup quarterback could be a free agent in the summer.

The Browns believed:

1. Garoppolo would become excited in Cleveland because he would finally receive a chance to start.

2. The Browns have oodles of salary cap room and could pay him big money to stay.

3. At the worst, they'd franchise him for 2018 and work on a long-term deal after that.

New England was engaged in talks with San Francisco for Garoppolo. The 49ers gave up a second-round pick. They also cut Brian Hoyer, and the Cleveland native signed with New England to be Tom Brady's backup.

The Patriots never brought the Browns into the talks, even though the Browns had been calling constantly about Garoppolo for a long time.

The Browns couldn't figure it out, because they have made two previous trades with New England. The Browns had multiple picks to offer and were willing to do it. They believed they could have easily offered more than the 49ers.

But the Patriots seemed set on the deal with the 49ers, and that happened on Monday. Perhaps adding Hoyer was the reason the Patriots focused on the 49ers.

Regardless, the Browns were stunned when they heard the news.

That led to a very gloomy Monday night in Berea, and it set up their quest for A.J. McCarron.

ABOUT A.J. McCARRON

It seems the Browns and Bengals were both not quite sure if they wanted to make this trade at least until the final hour before Tuesday's 4 p.m. deadline.

The Browns talked to the Bengals that morning. Cincinnati wanted a second- and third-round pick for their backup quarterback. The Browns thought that was extremely high.

McCarron has not thrown a pass in a regular season game since 2015. Like nearly every NFL team, the Browns didn't rate McCarron on the same level as Garoppolo.

The appeal was McCarron knew coach Hue Jackson's system. Also, McCarron could bring some stability by not throwing interceptions.

In 2015, McCarron played in eight games, including one in the postseason. He completed 101-of-161 passes with seven TDs and three interceptions. They liked the 63 percent completion mark with limited interceptions.

Bengals owner Mike Brown set the price at a second- and third-round pick. The Browns have three second-rounders in 2018, and were negotiating about which one.

Bottom line was the two teams started on this trade very late. They haggled over too many things that didn't mean much. Then it became a paper-trail story of "He said ... he said."

The deadline passed and no deal ... for any quarterback.

I was strongly in favor of some type of Garoppolo deal. I was underwhelmed by the idea of McCarron.

By my count, the Browns made something like 17 different trades, many more complicated than this one.

The best guess is both teams share some of the blame for failing to move quickly on a last-day deal. But because the Browns are the Browns, they are destined to be the organization that is labeled inept after the deal fell apart.

WHAT WENT RIGHT

I was looking at the Browns scores and suddenly realized something: The 0-8 team has lost four games by three points.

That's right, half of the Browns losses have been by a field goal.

Granted, that happens to bad teams. They lose close games. But if they split the four games, they are 2-6. Less gloom-and-doom, less pressure on everyone in Berea.

Here are a few thoughts:

1. The Browns defense was a mess in the 31-28 loss to Indianapolis, although the three DeShone Kizer interceptions didn't help. That game was not as close as the score indicated.

2. But in the other three losses, the Browns defense allowed a grand total of four touchdowns. That's right, four TDs allowed in those three games.

3. In those losses to Pittsburgh, the Jets and Tennessee, the Browns defense gave up 14, 17 and 12 points, respectively. The Steelers scored 21 points, but seven came when they recovered a blocked punt in the end zone.

4. In other words, the defense turned in three game-winning performances. When a team is 0-8, everything looks bad. But the defense is better. Gregg Williams has made a difference. When Myles Garrett is healthy, the defense can be dynamic.

5. The run defense has improved from 31st last season to No. 5 this season. Emanuel Ogbah, Danny Shelton, Larry Ogunjobi, Jamie Meder, Trevon Coley and the linebackers have been very strong against the run.

6. This is not to make a claim of the Browns having a great defense, but it has a chance to be pretty good in the near future.

WHAT WENT WRONG

One word: TURNOVERS!

When the Browns made the decision to go with rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer, they never dreamed he'd be throwing interceptions at a record-setting pace.

The Browns record for interceptions in a season is 27 in 1979. Brian Sipe threw 26 of those.

At the midpoint, the Browns have 17 interceptions -- 11 by Kizer.

We are witnessing the worst quarterback play in the history of the franchise.

Not all of it is on the quarterbacks. The front office failed to supply receivers. Free agent Kenny Britt has been a disaster. Corey Coleman (2016 first-rounder) showed some ability but can't stay healthy. Other draft picks have floundered.

Perhaps Josh Gordon will help, assuming he stays out of trouble. He will be eligible for the final five games of the season if he continues on his current path.

After a slow start, the offensive line has come together with free agents JC Tretter and Kevin Zeitler fitting in.

A year ago, the Browns allowed 66 sacks. This season, they are at 23 ... and eight were in the opening day game.

The run blocking could be better. The coaching staff also could be committed more to the run.

None of this is meant as an in-depth analysis of the draft picks, etc. Hue Jackson also has had some bizarre moments in terms of in-game decisions.

But the biggest cloud over the season leading to zero wins has been the quarterback play. The Browns could not even find a way to have mediocre performances from the quarterback in most games, and that's very discouraging.

Link

I can't help but think that if everyone would hold their water, get the QB situation sorted out, add some playmakers, this regime could turn things around. Kizer in his second year should be better. Take Barkley with the first pick, Josh Allen wth the second 1st, add a receiver, a corner, and safety, get Gordon and Coleman healthy, tweak some areas and add depth through free agency, it's a much different team. I wish they could keep it together and get it right.


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Originally Posted By: Tulsa
Originally Posted By: bbrowns32
Originally Posted By: pblack18707
Quote:
Try to have him keep the coaching staff at least another year.


will not help one bit.. I dont know if people realise the damage the FO did to this team.. they made it into a real expansion team. unbelievable people on this board wanted that.


The FO initially had a plan which at the beginning everyone seemingly bought into. With the losses pilling up, some people have been faultering from staying the course. With the doubt and the pressure from outside sources (media, etc....), this has lead to knee-jerk reactions or pandering in the McCarron case. I believe 'The Plan' is solid, leading ultimately to long term success if only all people can stay in their lane and ride it out. If you're not on board and not committed, it is time to seek alternate employment.


While I agree with the sentiment from a team perspective, if you’re not with us you’re against us, but who really is the us in this scenario and what of the fans? As far as my fandom is concerned, I wasn’t aware regression was part of ‘The Plan’.

Wasn’t ‘The Plan’ supposed to be showing some dividends this season? We all suffered through last season as part of this rebuild but two lost seasons I didn’t think were in the mix. Also not in ‘The Plan” is the front office and coaching staff imploding into this gawd awful public relations nightmare of ineptitude they’ve created. Their failure to even address this situation is only furthering their ineptitude.

So I’m just one small voice in a chorus and not being someone who buys tickets, pays for parking, buys concessions and all that goes with being a local fan, I’m curious what the season ticket holders feel about this mess? Are you getting your monies worth? Is the team providing you with what your expectation was of ‘The Plan’?


I will assume that subsequent to this post, that you have read Pluto's article...


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I did and we’re still 0 - 8 without a viable qb and only a punchers chance of winning a game this season.


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j/c

I've read more excuses for stupidity in this thread than I've seen in a long time. This FO couldn't find water if their asses were on fire and all you hear are excuses for it and how, "Well things turned out okay".

This entire fiasco is hilarious.


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The only ones who believe in this front office are the same ones who buy into every regime from the past 15 years
Nothing new
They will buy anything the Browns are selling

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This FO like it or not has built a solid front seven on defense. Kindred is playing like a top 5 Strong safety and BBC is becoming a stud also. I hated the Peppers pick but its to early. Bottom line they have taken a crappy defense and made them into a defense that can win a lot of games for you.

Now on the offensive side, Hue was the QB whisperer and these QB moves are moves he wanted. Hue wanted RG3 and he got him. Hue wanted Cody and he got him. Kizer was his guy. They tried to trade for AJ McCaron which was stupid because Hue wanted him. I blame the FO for listening to Hue Jackson to often on these QBs.

they have built a respectable OL and have given us 2 potential studs at TE. Hue said he was gonna commit to the run game and when we are running up the gut on teams he abandons it and goes pass happy or everything off tackle. He may be the worst coach we have had at calling run plays. Crow isn't great but damn he is a north south runner that needs reps.

Receiver position they have totally flopped on. its horrible but they aren't the one throwing the ball all over the place especially in red one either instead of pounding it in.

anyway I am a bit more willing to give the FO a pass this year as they aren't the ones calling out the coaching staff in the press. I would be willing to give Hue more time if he would stop sending messages through mike silver and or his daughter like a total coward.

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j/c:

Quote:
League sources tell me the Browns talked to New England last on Friday, Oct. 28. The Browns were told the Patriots had no interest in dealing Garoppolo. The Browns said to please call them if that changed.


From the Terry Pluto article.


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Thank you for posting that article. It brings up a handful of really good points that helps to understand why we're at where we're at (on the field).


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Whether it's accurate or not is debatable, but carry on.


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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Whether it's accurate or not is debatable, but carry on.


File this response under "people are going to believe what they want to believe".

Whether this is accurate isn't even the point. This regime has had 2 years to secure a QB. They haven't. Whether it's Hue or FO, the Browns still don't have a QB. You might be able to even excuse that if there were no opportunities to secure a QB, but they've passed on multiple opportunities

The Browns don't have a QB. That's fireable given the ample opportunities.

However, I actually expect everyone to survive for one more year. I don't trust this FO with another draft, but hopefully the latest embarrassing events and the record will beat two things into Sashi and Depo's thick heads: get a freaking QB AND don't listen to Jackson on who that should be.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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