DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What can the front office do to help?

QUIT

i said it elsewhere, but I think the best hope is that we get a talent evaluator to help the FO for the draft/FA ... and an OC/associate HC to help with the offense

In terms of this season, I don't see anything helping this run away train

This comes from my perspective of if I was the owner, but I would like to think it is applicable to Haslam, too.

As you mention, it's too late in the season to make additions, but I naturally consider that secondary at the moment. What's done is done.

What can be accomplished at this stage is showing Haslam that there is still something worth keeping this all together. I would love for the front office and coaching staff to meet and have a comprehensive discussion. What went wrong, what went right. What has been learned, both positive and negative. What issues each individual/group has with the other individual/group and how they can collectively move forward with a more collaborative effort that can make both siders happier and more confident in the product that can be delivered. Show Haslam that there is a plan, and the plan can work. From scouting, to drafting, to signings, re-signings and trades. A comprehensive understanding of how this organization can be more cohesive and efficient between departments.

Ultimately, both the coaches and front office deserve blame for the issues both on and off the field. I cringe when I read discussion that each side is possibly trying to blame each other. Neither side is blameless, and I don't think the issues are insurmountable. They're human and they're a relatively young group who are learning and growing together. There has been positives, and they need to figure out how to maximise the chances of positive results.

As an owner, I would acknowledge that these issues started with me. I gave the go-ahead to organize a complete rebuild of the roster without completely understanding just how difficult it would be to rebuild the team to a point of competitiveness. It shouldn't be surprising that it will take three drafts to deliver results but now I would need to know that we will indeed see results in year three. If they were able to show me that they have a plan all sides feel confident in delivering those results, I could feel confident they can deliver.

I would hope Haslam is no different, and I would also hope our coaching staff and front office are willing to show their humility and accept mistakes, show their desire to improve by developing a plan for unity and advancement, and highlighting that Haslam is not in a "nothing to lose" situation.

-Continue to let the coaches develop players
- Talk to the coaches, specifically the HC, and DC, about the type of players they like/want.
- Keep the good players we have. Don't let them walk.

Talk the Thief into selling the team ....

Hey mac just a question how good do you think we will be with Gordon and Coleman both playing?

my god if they both were playing.

imagine if we would've kept pryor....sigh.

With are second first round pick would you draft another 1 st round receiver?

i would actually draft a MLB with 1b, and would draft a WR with 2a.

I think we have the DL, so Sashi should draft the MIKE and have our front 7 set. schobert is not the answer.

that would give us our QB on the offense with lamar jackson, and our "QB" on defense, whoever that will be with our first two picks.

Let hue start picking the players.

How about Hue picks the players and we get Manning for the offensive coordinator.

For one they can put their arrogance to the side and stop.acting like
They are the smartest men in the room .
Sashi is nothing more than what Fred Nance was to the Cavs
Yet he thinks hes this great evaluator of talent
Sashi couldnt judge talent at potato sack race
Unfortunately the season is a lost cause now
Really nothing to be gained other looking at a few guys on the fence
and to see which players are still giving 100% which is far and few between now
Let's face it when you are 0-8 and no playoffs to be
Guys are already checking out
Let's face some players are already looking at 2018
2017 is about staying healthy the last 8 games
The front office cannot get out of its own way

Pick a QB in this draft. Or get Cousins (even though I don't want him that much given how much he'll be wanting) and solidify the QB position.

They damn near can miss on almost all other picks if they pick a QB that can ball and win for this franchise.

Stop being idiots, too.

Lol.

Start by bringing in some Veteran FAs. It's year 3 and it's time.

Many aren't seeing this through all of the fiasco going on, but we've lost 4 games by a total of 12 points. That's a play here or a play there away from being potentially 4-4.

Missed FGs, red zone turnovers, critical time penalties are killing us.

Start by zoning in on the 2 weakest units on this team.

Secondary (It's WHY Williams has our Safeties playing so damn deep)
WR

We zoned in on Jefferson and Bouye this year. DO IT AGAIN. CB and FS.

Diam. What are your thoughts on this? This is TWICE now that we've gone after Mccarron. He's considered a VET. I'm betting we do it again. Kizer is still adjusting to the speed of the game. Would Mccarron be that Veteran leader to work with Kizer? I'm torn on this one, but Darnold doesn't appear to be coming out and Rosen appears to be a Head case with that "Privileged One" tude.

I don't think Cousins is interested in signing here either.

I'm ok rolling with Kizer (He's still so damn young) and Mccarron (He really seems to want to be here with Hue).

If we can get Gordon to stay on track with Coleman and a high pick (Sutton/Ridley) this changes EVERYTHING offensively.

Attack the Secondary in FA and again in our 1st 5 picks.

Attack WR with a bonafide 1st round stud.

Address MLB in the 2nd round. RB if need be and this changes EVERYTHING.

I been trying to tell people as far as whats on the field its not near as bad as it seems .... NOT EVEN CLOSE ... I even said if Harvard has to exit the building .. i’d BE GRATEFUL TO THEM as they are going to leave us with more TALENT (and its all young to boot) and HIGH draft picks and a ton of cap space ... we’ll be in WAY BETTER SHAPE than ever before ....

a few things though ... after this week .. I think the thief has to clean house .. no way can these guys work together .... NO WAY ... i could care less what the lollipop gang thinks ... but thats not your question ...

I’m not a fan of McCarron .. WITH THAT SAID ... and I think a 2nd and a 3rd is too much for him ... but we have the assets to do it AND he knows the OFFENSE and doesn’t commit TO’s .. I said whats below a few days ago .. most are still so frustrated and peed their not capable of rational thought or listening ..

We need to bring in a vet that will give us a shot to win some games .. and we have enough talent on our front 7 on D that a qb that doesn’t turn the ball over and we can win a few games ... witch is HUGE FOR THIS TEAM ... i was talking about next year BUT McCaronn makes more sense than i initially thought for RIGHT NOW ....

Then u draft the QB U love in this draft if there is one ... we have the #1 pick and theirs no MG type player coming out in this draft .... i don’t care if its Baker Mayfield and hes projected to go at 12 by the league gm’s ... GO GET HIM .. no trade backs .. even if u trade back to #3 ... if someone jumps you to get him at #2 ... SHAME ON U ... and i’m Not pimping Mayfield ... he was just the example i used ...

So next year the qb room would look like this ..

McCarron - vet that gives us a shot to win ... knows the O ... especially important next year as we’ll have 1 - 3 new WR’s in and hopefully that includes Josh ... but he will still be a rook/2nd year guy as far as being in this O ,.. hes the rare rook/2nd year guy COMBO ... *L* ..

He can also help mentor Kizer and the new guy ... i have not given up on Kizer YET ... I think his accuracy issues can be solved in the off season if he can break old mechanical habits over the off season .. not sure if he will ever be able to proccess info quick enough to be good ... but i sure as all hell would like to find out ... he has the arm talent and atheletic ability to be special if he ever “figures” it out ...

It would be McCarron (or another vet ..) ... Kizer and the rookie high draft pick ...

After thinking about it for a few days ... and i’m going to get flamed for this .. i’m used to it .. *L* ... i’m not so sure I’m happy the trade didn’t go through ... we were going to pay WAY TO MUCH FOR HIM based on actual talent and what the 9ers gave up for JG ...

BUT for this team in THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION ... the chance to win a few games the 2nd half of this season, sit Kizer NOW and too hopefully get him resigned and have the “vet” QB in the room next year ..

It very well may have been worth it .. i’m Still not sure on that one ... i’m warming to the idea and its certainly not near as moronic as i initially thought it was when u look at THIS PARTICUALR TEAM TODAY and the SITUATION ...

If ownership sided with Hue Jackson this week, it wasn't out of confidence in the Browns head coach -- Bud Shaw's Sports Spin

Updated Nov 4, 5:23 PM; Posted Nov 4, 4:57 PM
link
CLEVELAND, Ohio - Is this bye week a good time for the annual reminder of Browns chief strategist Paul DePodesta's answer to Jimmy Haslam back in their courting days when asked what he wanted from ownership?

"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun," DePodesta said, relaying the exchange. "There are going to be parts of the roller coaster that are going to be scary, that are going to be uncomfortable.

"But hopefully at the end of the ride when we get off, you're going to want to say, let's do that again.' But I think that's how we always got through it, was having that shared vision from the beginning and giving you the conviction to actually go through with it."

Well, now. What if it's never been fun except for one lonely Christmas Eve?

What if it's only been uncomfortable?

What if the front office and the alleged QB guru head coach don't agree on what a franchise quarterback looks like?

What if they haven't shown they can be trusted to deliver one in next year's draft?

That's how you get the lack of conviction we saw from ownership this week. I'm not referring to the reports that Dee Haslam went "nuclear" on the front office after the NFL declined the trade for quarterback AJ McCarron.

By the way, stop it with how DeShone Kizer could still be the guy with the right people around him. The Browns would be fools to pass on a QB they rate higher at the top of the 2018 draft in hopes Kizer can dramatically improve.

Kizer's been put in a tough spot. True enough. He's also been atrocious.

Put it this way: If Hue Jackson goes for a swim in Lake Erie as he's promised he will if 1-15 or worse comes to fruition, believe me, he wouldn't pick Kizer to throw him a life preserver.

One theory espoused as we learned of the McCarron snafu is that Jackson won the week because, it seems, the Haslams sided with him over the front office.

Sorry. There couldn't possibly have been any winners on this one.

I don't think Haslam's confidence in Jackson grew during a 0-8 bye week. The wayward pursuit of McCarron against all logic was instead Haslam raising his hand out of frustration and wanting the ride to stop for a minute.

His fan base is dwindling. He needs a win or three as much as anyone. Will the fans come back if the Browns win? Sure. But that hope doesn't help in the moment.

Jackson was angry about Jimmy Garoppolo going to San Francisco from New England without a play being made by the front office?

The owner may have great empathy for what Jackson is going through as head coach. But to think he got behind Jackson because he believes in him despite that 1-23 record? That is difficult to imagine.

Jackson is the one who supposedly knows quarterbacks, remember? He may not have final say on personnel. But it's crazy to think Sashi Brown and Andrew Berry don't seek his opinion. What we have to show for all this collaboration and coaching expertise is Carson Wentz chasing league MVP in Philly and Deshaun Watson in Houston now recovering from a freak practice injury.

What we had, briefly, was Robert Griffin III.

What we have to show is consecutive drafts where analytics made a third-round pick out of Cody Kessler and presumably played no part in the selection of Kizer in the second round.

What we have is Josh McCown winning games for the Jets while Kevin Hogan goes from No. 4 to No. 1 to No. 3 in the space of two months.

What we have is a head coach who talks about Kizer playing "lights out" one week, then benches him the next three. And finally this week what we had was an owner with his stomach in his throat taking a stab at trading for a rival's backup even though McCarron doesn't solve the search for a franchise quarterback.

If after all that we still see this week as win for Hue Jackson, it's only because we understandably forgot what winning looks like.

No...he wanted McCarron. He likes Kizer. He didn't want Wentz.

Coaches are usually bad at selecting players as they tend to look at needs rather than pick the best players.

If people are honest, the players we have selected aren't all that bad. We have had hits up and down the draft process. I don't think we have done a bad job of drafting.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/draft.htm

If I had to find a major fault, it isn't the receivers we have drafted, it is possibly not placing enough weight on the position. I don't blame the front O that 2-3 wr selected in round 5 aren't working out. I find falut that maybe we didn't do more in this last draft and look to select someone in maybe round two to give players like Hollywood Higgins a run for their money.

I can understand the logic behind bringing in McCarron - someone Hue knows, who knows the system. My issue with the whole shebang is the timing. If we wanted a vet we should have made a play before the season started. We knew what we had then and if we didn't then that is another can of worms altogether. The JG trade may have lit the touchpaper but the past week seems to me to be a pure reaction to the record and current situation. This is where strong leadership is needed. Like posted above - we aren't a million miles away. Finding a serviceable QB (Kizer develops? McCarron? Rook?) and that will cure a lot of ills. With so many high picks, we can look at CB, S, WR, QB. We can continue to invest in a few free agents, as we did this year.

If Josh Gordon returns, then that again is huge.

I think regardless of who is in charge next year, they will be in a really favourable position to really make a leap. I just don't want to see us discard any of the talent we now have for the sakes of change in schemes.

FO are elitists. How dare ANYONE question their knowledge in ANY subject. Mere football men cannot Possibly posses their capabilities to analyze the situation.
The rift between the two is there. It seems to be the clearest thing we know coming out of this saga.

It's not good and I'm betting it doesn't really improve no matter what drivel we hear out of Berea.

There is no evidence the FO are "elitists. " Not saying they are doing a good job, but making assumptions with no evidence is pointless.

They can start by showing some leadership.

1) Fire Kenny Britt. I don't care if we don't have a single Wr on the roster after he's gone, he needs to be gone. He's a distraction in the locker room, a poor influence with the players, and a terrible message to have on the field. Eat the bullet, admit the mistake, and fire the man.

2) Get in a room with the coaching staff and come up with a plan for free agency and the draft. An addition of talent like this plus three or four select free agents and this is an entirely different team:

Round 1 Pick 1: Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State (A)
Round 1 Pick 17 (JAX): Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming (A)
Round 2 Pick 1: Auden Tate, WR, Florida State (A-)
Round 2 Pick 12: Armani Watts, FS, Texas AM (A-)
Round 2 Pick 15 (DEN): Iman Marshall, CB, Southern California (A-)
Round 2 Pick 17 (JAX): Trey Adams, OT, Washington (B+)
Round 2 Pick 32: Orlando Brown, OT, Oklahoma (B+)
Round 3 Pick 1: Parris Campbell, WR, Ohio State (B)
Round 4 Pick 1: Jalyn Holmes, DE, Ohio State (A)
Round 4 Pick 23: Jordan Thomas, CB, Oklahoma (A)
Round 5 Pick 1: Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma (A+)
Round 5 Pick 26: Daniel Carlson, K, Auburn (A+)
Round 6 Pick 1: Kentavius Street, DT, North Carolina State (A+)
Round 7 Pick 1: Steven Parker, SS, Oklahoma (A-)

3) Make a statement. Clear the air about the infighting, the missteps, and tell the truth about what happened with Garropolo and McCarron.

These are three immediate steps the FO could take right now to start putting this team back on the right path. Then the coaching staff and players need to go out and win a couple game. Do these things, and all is forgiven until next year when there is more talent and experience running the team, coaching the team, and playing on the field. We'll be in the third year of the system and we start seeing some consistency. Then we start to see real improvement. JMHO.

Knock it out of the park with the 2018 draft, and have a productive off season with free agent signings.

It was a trade down from fifteen, I traded down twice figuring I could get Allen at 17.

Regardless of the picks, the point is we can infuse the team with difference making talent through free agency and the draft, and probably get the QB situation solved without blowing it all up. There are a lot of potentially good QBs in this draft class. At least three or four, probably more, they could easily come away with two good ones if they wanted to.

The FO & Hue need to get their acts together. They need to reunite, come out and get in front of this entire mess, then get to work fixing it. Hue needs to be a better game day coach and the FO has to hear the coaches when it comes to personnel decisions. It's not rocket science. It's an ego thing, and they're #&*^$!@ the whole thing up, but they have potential, and blowing it up and bringing in two more narcissistic yokels who want to line their pockets or pad their resumes isn't going to help do a thing to turn it around quickly. Again, JMHO.

Yeah, it's tough winning favor through their misfortune, but we'll take it. We have yet to see what kind of actual nose dive they take, if any. I figure we'll pick anywhere from 12-20.

I agree with all of that. It was a big mistake to get rid of McKown, they probably did it due to the BO trade. If that 2nd round pick we got from the Texans doesn't turn into an immediate impact player, it's going to be yet another big black eye for this FO after giving up 16mil and a proven qb vet/mentor, all for a qb that's not even on the team.

j\c

Put Kiser on practice squad or cut him he stinks, breaks the rules {curfew }
admit the huge stupid mistake drafting him.
Put garret on IR and keep him there cause hes useless and a horrible mistake.
Hopefully that will send a message that they mean business .
Fire the FO immediately before they do any more damage.
Start the search for a new FO {hopefully they can get it right....holding my breath tho.

This may be difficult with all the "leaking" going on.

"Wentz is not top 20 quarterback"

"I got RGIII so I don't want Wentz."

Stop doing whatever is screwing us up.

Start doing something different and do it better.

Get some help for the incompetents. We have proven, after blowing through massive drafts, great caps, lousy trades, players we passed on that this FO can't do it. Or won't. Their sole Browns purpose has been to cut veterans and amass draft picks. Trading is horrible; our coach is underserved. Move them out of the draft room and personnel process.

A number of clubs have won lots of games and tons of Super Bowls without analytics worship. It is a tool, and a good one, but like piling up picks, it is not an end unto itself, and if it does not produce wins, it needs fixed or taken to the curb. We missed trash pickup this year IMO.
Go, Browns!

GM, what areas do you want some FA action in? I want one veteran QB who can play & mentor. A CB. A Safety.

Crowell might go.

Sashi Brown is addressing the media today at 1:15.

During the recent calamity in Berea during the Bye, did the Browns forget to bring in a kicker(s) for tryouts or are they going to keep trotting Zane Gonzalez out there?

A decent kicker would fall under the category of helpful.