DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Sashi at 1:15 11/6

What has to be done to be almost winless in two years. You almost have to work hard at it with a lot of help to be this bad. You also must have placed priority on the wrong stuff, either overvalued it or mis valued it, and then lack judgment about impact players.

This front off ice seems to know the price of everything and the value of nothing. It certainly fails to value much of the good.

Look aye what we are sustaining right now. Apparently we wanted to go agonizingly slowly, torture the fans, and lose well above 90% of our games. Our play sucks. Just putrid.

Somehow it should matter to fans that we be told by him that he takes ownership for this garbage. Sashi, we already pinned it to you. Whether you claim it, own it, or giftwrap it and give it to your mama, it is on you. Get somebody else to do what you can't. For real NFL folks, it isn't tough to do; this is not for you.

Snappy interviews do not matter.

It's not the approach that I have issues with, it's been the execution that has me raising an eyebrow.

After listening to Hue Jackson's press conference today, it seems the line between the FO and Coaching staff has been drawn in the sand. I did not come away feeling there was a united front, at least from the coaching staff's perspective.

The next 8 weeks will be trying.

I would also like to say that I think that at least one of the two groups (front office/coaching staff) will be fired. I don't trust the Haslams at all.

If Sashi and company were not fired after what transpired last week and the rift w/the coaching staff........then that almost certainly means that Jimmy will stick w/a guy who never had the proper qualifications for the job in the first place and I fully expect for Hue Jackson and some other coaches to be sacrificed at the end of the season.

That is the same prediction I had when they announced the damn plan and again this off-season.

I swear.........our owners almost always make the worst choices and listen to the wrong faction of the fan base.

I believe they both (FO & Coaching staff) get canned at the end of the year.

By that I mean, Sashi and Hue, any new regime will decide the fate of the underlings.

What makes you think that Sashi will get canned? Not being snarky at all. Just curious...

True, but winning more than 1 game in 18 months should be perfectly feasible.

He had a plan to make us bad, problem is, he doesn't have a plan to win. Sticking with Sashi means accepting 0 - 1 win seasons as long as he is in charge.

My problem isn't w/the record. I knew it would be bad and tried to tell everyone that so much losing would lead to conflicts and the blame game.

That is the problem. People are blaming the other side [on both sides] and that is not a recipe for success.

Come on. You sound just as bad as those who excuse the FO all of the time and blame Hue for our problems.

Sashi wants to win. He believes in his plan. No one has a plan to be "bad."

Play fair.

1-23 says otherwise.

Again, I don't think you are being fair. You are acting like guys like Memphis, WSU, Devil, 32, cfrs, etc who constantly put all the blame on Hue and give the FO a pass.

Sashi and the other guys who made the plan said that they fully expected to lose a ton of games in the first two years, but they thought that the plan would ensure long-term success.

I think it is unfair to act like they want to lose. In fact, I think that is a preposterous notion. I don't agree w/the plan, but I get the concept. Lose now in order to win later. And they knew the plan would take time.

I just wish people would play fair and be objective.

I was suspended for the last few days [and I fully deserved that suspension because I was acting like an idiot] and I read the board w/out commenting and realized just how biased so many posters are.

Being objective trumps subjective opinions every day of the week and this board would be a much better place if we eliminated some of that subjective crap.

To be objective, someone must have all the facts. Unfortunately, not a one of us has the whole truth. So, subjectivity is the default mode.

When Wentz hoists the NFL MVP and Lombardi trophies, Haslam will want his pound of flesh.

More to your question, I just don't see anyone surviving this, they can all play nice for the camera during the pressers, but this feels like when things went south with Farmer and Pettine all over again, sans text to the sideline. Or the unfathomable amount of other times we have had the chance to watch regime demises since 1999. The lines in the sand appear to be drawn.

We can only imagine all the stuff we are unaware of that has gone down behind the scenes.

I don't think Sashi will be able to continue to sell his vision of collecting draft picks as enough reason to retain him. Haslam sees Wentz, he sees Watson, he sees Dak, he wonders why they couldn't land Garoppolo. There is no concrete evidence to even remotely suggest this thing gets turned around in 2018. The year Haslam stated we can expect to see significant improvement.

As an added bonus, Haslam will see a continued drop in season ticket corporate sales. I don't mean the season ticket holder up in the 500 sections giving up their two seats at $1200. I'm talking about the corporations that season tickets include access to the Draft Room Club and Kardiac Club. Corps that have 4 - 8 seats to entertain clients and cost $20k -$25k per season. This only adds to the pressure already suffocating this organization.

I just think Haslam gets out the powder keg unless something in the second half of the season drastically changes and I don't see that happening at all.

Not sure if you are right or wrong, but I appreciate your answer. Thanks.

It's more for me to consider.

Vers and others,
I know that we are all frustrated with the Browns. But we are all missing the key element. When Sashi/Depodesta sold the Haslams on their idea of a rebuild, it was based on a baseball model...

Think about it, baseball FO will pick/keep a bunch of young talent for years before they start winning. Think about the Astros, most of their talent has been in the system since 2014, they started winning late last year and now! Sashi/Depodesta are trying to build a team based on that model.

Now of course, Hue and coaches are not used to that!! They are trying to win NOW, pick up my needs NOW and we can start winning with Free Agents and certain pickups NOW!!.. But that is not the baseball model!!!. And that came to a head last week.

I hate to say this but no one is getting fired. Hue/Coaches are not getting fired because Haslam was about to sign off on getting Hue a QB for right now!.. Sashi/Depodesta are not getting fired either, but they better pull off alot of stuff in this off season.

Think about it!!

Wait, we're like the Astros? I hope McCarron wasn't our Verlander!

You made a comment about the baseball model.

I don't know if that is true or not, but I want to comment on the difference between the baseball model and the NFL model.

Let's say you need a RF in baseball. You draft 4 or more of them. You assign them to different levels in the minor leagues. You don't expect all to develop, but you just hope one develops.

Now, let's say you have need at WR. You draft 4 of them. What do you do w/them if they all don't appear ready. Put 1 on the PS? Keep all four and hope they develop? There isn't a minor league system w/multiple levels.

Thus, I think it's a dumb ass strategy in the NFL and you can't use a baseball strategy in this case because the two professional leagues are so different.

I know.. McCarron was just a unproven pitcher that you HOPE can give you a few innings!!..LMAO

Vers,
I agree, the baseball model can't work in the NFL because you do not have that time nor development league..aka the minors to groom your talent. Plus, the NFL season is too short to actually get your young talent time to learn on the job!

But that is what they sold the Haslams on. Think, anyone else would not do a rebuild like the Browns have. Lose ALL your veteran talent, keep ALL your draft picks(2016), put a young team out there for 2 or 3 seasons. That is a baseball model. And those are the things that Cleveland Media should be questioning Sashi/Depodesta on!!!

Joke ! But not funny in the least .

We don't know if he has a plan to win because we haven't gotten to that point in the process yet.

not to mention baseball is more about individual effort and players basically being on islands.. They either can play their position or not, noone else can help them do their job better, where as the NFL..its more about working as a team and trusting each other that allows you to be good individually. Alot less room for error in football than baseball. So the metrics are completely different and I think we are wasting time with this experiment

1-23. Pretty clear he doesn't. I guess he gets a free pass for another 5 years so we can find out, right? He needs to start showing results from this mess. He needs to start caring about winning.

1-23 because the entire plan was to bad the first couple years. Do you think we are playing the youngest team in the league because the front office thinks it will make us better this year?

Like I said before, our owner promoted Sashi Brown with this plan in mind. We have to trust that their is another step after the tanking.

And unless Haslem didn't tell Hue the plan, Hue knew what he was getting into. If Haslem didn't then shame on him.

Bear down. Stay the course. If the rift between Hue and FO is too much to mend, then maybe decisions need to be made. But if not, stick to the plan, continue to add young talent, and find the QB.

You have GOT to be kidding.

So YOU got suspended again this time for being an idiot (your words, not mine) but the rest of us post unfairly and lack objectivity. Riiiiight. I've been on this board for over 15 years and I have never been suspended...I've never even received a warning.

You have me on ignore but you "know" what I post and what I think...yet others load up the board with subjectivity. How objective can you possibly be if you conclude you "know" what other people think when you have those same people on ignore?

You've recently stated that Hue will get fired because Jimmy will listen to the "wrong" faction of Browns fans. What could be more subjective than that?

Stand in front of a mirror and read your posts before hitting the "Submit" button. The hypocrisy will seep out of the mirror.

Riiiiight. More agenda posting and fake news from Versatile Dog.

I think I said just yesterday both are at fault for things and I'm probably one of a few people that isn't calling for Hue or the FO to be fired. But please, keep the agenda going. I'll warm up some more popcorn.

Just out of curiosity - and with a lot of luck and healthy MG, Coleman and the reemergence of Josh Gordon:

Let's say that Haslam keeps the team in tact till the end of the season and the Browns go on to beat Ravens, Bears and (Packers or the Chargers) ... finish this year 3-16 with a rookie QB who has thrown away at least 2 games with his rookie mistakes.

Does that change anything? I keep seeing "1-23" . and it just made me wonder if winning 3 of 8 would change some opinions of those wanting to fire FO and Hue. . . .

I know I want to keep both for another year .... would I feel differently if at the end of the season we are 0-16 ? . . . I guess I might but there are some other factors to review before knowing for sure.

Right.

I most definitely think winning 3 of our last 8 would change the entire feel around this team. From the players to the fans to Haslam.

One win is mandatory. If we go 0-16 I can't see Haslam not firing somebody. I don't think another 1 win season does much for the team culture

2 wins is a start but I am not sure that is enough. I guess it depends on the wins. 2 of the last 3? Perhaps that leaves a good taste in our mouths to end the season. Baltimore and Pittsburgh? Then definitely. Even if Pittsburgh is resting the majority of their starters.

Excellent point. I'm looking less at W's and more at definable progress and competitiveness throughout the game and at all levels. W's are always nice...but they can be misleading if the progress is lacking. Almost stat-like if you will.

Haven't we lost 4 games by 3 points?

First I think Colemon will only be average at best, and Gordon is a cancer in any team...

Winning some games, will sure help,but its not only winning, is stopping with the stupid mistakes, and showing signs that we are learning.

If players rally around Hue, and get some wins,then hey will show us that they support and believe in him.If they throw the towel, than that shows what kind of support Hue has.

Regarding Sachi, well if Colemon, MG, Peppers and Njoku show a remarkable increase, then he will validate his trade downn strategy.

If they continue to be average or on IR, I guess that seals Sachi's faith, since he will confirm that he cannot identify the elite players on the league.

Drafting and signing good players,anyone can do it.

And some simply ignore the aha moments when they happen.

+1

I think he was beating himself....

We have a plan to develop the team and infuse it with with talent, yet we cannot evaluate players like Watson,Bosa, Hooker, Zeke and Wentz, just to name a few...