Cleveland Browns head coach Hue Jackson is on thin ice and it is time that owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam set some new ground rules.
The Cleveland Browns were quiet as the NFL’s trade deadline came and went on Tuesday afternoon.
But, oh my, the noise surrounding the team was deafening and we can all thank head coach Hue Jackson for that.
It started late Monday night after the news broke that the San Francisco 49ers had given up a second-round draft pick for New England Patriots quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo. Soon after, NFL Network’s Michael Silver sent out a Tweet that Jackson wanted Garoppolo but of course the front office wouldn’t go along with him.
A series of Tweets from Denver radio host Benjamin Allbright followed, detailing a series of emails reportedly from unnamed members of the coaching staff claiming that the front office shuts down at 5 p.m. (And since this is 1957 and not 2017, even if true there is no way to reach anyone once they leave team headquarters.)
Then came the boondoggle that was the attempt to trade for Cincinnati Bengals quarterback A.J. McCarron. Somehow the Browns avoided parting with a pair of draft picks through sheer luck (or a couple of Ivy League guys being smarter than everyone else in the room) for a quarterback that can’t beat out Andy Dalton.
That was followed by a Pro Football Talk report of Dee Haslam going “nuclear” on the front office staff for not being willing to sabotage the team to appease Jackson, the alleged “quarterback whisperer.”
It is now two days later and it is still so very exhausting.
When you start to unpack everything, however, you see how ridiculous the hysteria over the front office is and start to realize that the problem lies squarely at the feet of Jackson.
It was Jackson, after all, who came to town in early 2016 with the stated goal of fixing Cleveland’s ongoing quarterback crisis. But since his hiring, Jackson:
agreed with the assessment that Carson Wentz was not worth being drafted
thought that Robert Griffin III was worth being signed
didn’t believe that Deshaun Watson was worth being drafted
believed that DeShone Kizer was ready to start Week 1 of the season
thought that Kizer played “lights out” during a 31-7 loss to the Cincinnati Bengals
took eight weeks – and three separate benchings of Kizer – to realize that having your rookie quarterback throw the ball 30-plus times a game is not a good idea
has posted a record of 1-23
has continued to talk about how no one can be expected to win with a roster as allegedly void of talent as the Browns
Somehow, despite everything, Jackson has some people convinced that he is not to be blamed for anything, which may be the greatest trick he has pulled off with the Browns. We’ve been watching this team for 40 years now and we can’t remember a head coach ever being as Teflon-coated as Jackson.
But after the events of this week, it is clear that the time has come for the Haslams to take action.
The first step is to sit Jackson down and make it clear that the leaks to his friends in the media stop immediately. If Jackson is working he needs to spend less time on Operation Cover Your Behind and more time on fixing what ails the offense.
That ties into the second step: Jackson is done as offensive coordinator immediately. Assistant coach Al Saunders, who has experience as an offensive coordinator with the Kansas City Chiefs, Oakland Raiders, Baltimore Ravens, St. Louis Rams and Washington Redskins, can take over for the rest of the season.
There is simply no reason to keep Jackson in the role of offensive coordinator when you look at the offensive numbers from the season’s first eight games:
Thirty-first in the league in points at 14.9 per game.
Twenty-sixth in the league in yards at 301.2 per game.
Thirty-second in third-down conversion at 29 percent.
Fourth highest in penalties with 63.
Thirty-second in turnover margin at minus-12.
Thirty-second in quarterback rating at 56.1
The wacky formations, the odd play calling, the indecisiveness over the quarterback position, the strange decision making during games could all be excused a bit if the offense looked like it had a plan or was making some progress, but that has not been the case so far.
Finally, while Jackson can have a part to play when it comes to drafting a quarterback next spring, it needs to be a very minor one based off everything we’ve seen so far from his tenure in Cleveland.
And if Jackson doesn’t want to go along? Well, if there is one thing that Haslam knows it is how to fire a coach. Haslam should be thinking long and hard about doing that anyway given everything that has gone on since hiring Jackson.
Because if this week proved one thing above everything else it is that the time has come for the Browns to silence the “quarterback whisperer.”
" TRUST ME ON KESSLER"
Exciting football will be back in Cleveland this fall!
I think we can all agree that money ball analytics is not working for acquiring top talent in the NFL. Maybe when trading for established players when there's more than a couple to chose from. But free agency, draft day trades, and deadline trades, it's just not viable to work that way. The coaches and scouts must be allowed to evaluate the talent and risks and then the FO has to listen them and evaluate finances and finalize the deals. From what I'm seeing and hearing it's not working that way and it's not working.
Time to throw Moneyball out the window and get back to the more typical NFL template of drafting BPA and getting players to fill the holes in FA. Or we can just continue with the Sashi and Moneyball plan..... to be bad.
I don't think all agree on "that."
I love some of the young players we've drafted and brought in... Corey Coleman, Ogbah, Shon Coleman, Derrick Kindred, Delvalve, Schobert, Louis, Drango, Vitale, Reynolds, Boddy-Calhoun, Garrett, Peppers, Njoku, Ogunjobi, Brantley, Gonzalez, Dayes, Burgess, Treggs...
What should we have done differently in the draft?
Not sure if Haslam has the ability to look in the mirror and say "this is on me".
I don't know Haslam. Have no idea what he is like. Some coming from the kind of money he came from may find it problematic to self assess.
However, you can not run from the results.
Sashi Brown presented a plan to Haslam. Haslam bought into that plan. The Plan was to gut the team of veterans. Trade down in the draft to acquire more picks. Create as much cap space as possible. Acquire as much draft capital as possible and build the roster through the draft and have the money in place to acquire key young veterans in free agency. Sounds like a plan given the state of the roster.
The devil is in the details. In order for the plan to work the key component is the ability to evaluate talent and work the plan.
So far Sashi Brown has passed on Wentz, Dak and Watson in the draft. The picks gained and the players selected have yet to have an impact.
The Garoppolo fiasco. Hue his staff and the front office agreed that Garoppolo was a guy they wanted. They made inquires. The Patriots held out till it was clear they could not sign him and Brady played on.
The 49ers moved in on the opportunity. They had Hoyer who of course played there as a back-up. It made sense for the Pat's to get Hoyer and get something for Garoppolo.
Sashi's approach to the Pat's was: we like Garoppolo call us when you are ready. Belichick had made a trade with the Browns before. It was reported that he didn't like the way Sashi negotiated. That it was all about "winning the trade". He made the deal with the 49ers.
First off when you are the pursuer you can't play games. State your intentions. Make it known that you will not be out bid. Then you do not wait for the call. You are in pursuit. You have to be persistent and relentless. You can not allow someone to out maneuver you. You have to make it happen. Where there is a will; there is a way to get it done.
So now Sashi has made it clear that he is not a GM. There is a place for analytics. But it does not replace the ability to ID talent and make deals. At this point he has alienated his coaching staff and disrespected the owner.
I don't see how Haslam allows him to remain in power of the most important decisions the team can make "selecting the players".
Sort of a fair question and one worth asking ... but laced with some comments or measurables that I see as loaded or unfair.
1. What's the payback period for tearing down the roster and starting afresh? judging a 3 or 4 year plan after 1.5 years is short sighted.
2. Was the plan also to get the QB in year 3? We don't know. We also don't know what Hue has asked for or not asked for ... Hue was the only HC who went to Wentz's pro-day ... he obviusly didn't come back impressed enough to make a push for him. . . . there was no rhetoric at ANY time that Hue liked or wanted Wentz . . . does that factor into Haslam's evaluation of the the FO?
3. Sure we passed on Wentz and he looks like a stud. It's too early to judge what Watson will be so it's redundant to say "we passed on Watson" .... every team passed on Dak at least twice and many passed on him 3 times. You don't measure a teams ability to judge talent because they passed on a 3rd round 'fluke' .... I know some will argue that because we took Kessler before Dak or any other stuff - none of it matters. No-one in any NFL front office thought Dak was going to be as good as he has been - if anyone had, they would have taken him sooner in the draft. Period.
4. "The picks gained and the players selected have yet to have an impact." - I disagree. Given that the draft is a lottery in the first place - and that research shows that even the "good drafting" teams only draft marginally better than the average ones ... what are you expecting from 3rd and 4th and 5th round picks? I'd say guys like Ogbah, , Kindred, Schobert and Shon Coleman are all actually making an impact as starters. Nassib is in the rotation - Louis is starting but that's really though injury and horrible play by our FA acquisition. Corey Coleman has been injured - but he was a consensus top 3 WR in that draft, and PFF had him rated #1. He's flashed impact playmaking ability when he's been healthy. Garret has impact player written all over him.
Don't take it (like some would want to try to) that I think the FO is without fault or shouldn't be scrutinized ... they aren't perfect. But in any evaluation - you have to keep it as real as you can. . .
Take the Garoppolo situation - I think the FO was derelict in their efforts to keep in touch with new england. I read Hue expressed interest in JG so we should have been keeping regular contact with NE just in case - it's simply doing your due diligence. I don't think the Browns had any chance of getting him - but that doesn't mean they are without fault in the situation and shouldn't be scrutinized. You mentioned a report that NE doesn't like trading with Sashi because the Browns are hard to trade with and have to win negotiations ? - I've heard a lot of speculation on that without any verification or sources... so I don't personally believe it. It makes no sense..... The theory goes that Bill knows he could have got more from the Browns - but didn't want to trade with us because the Browns always have to win the trade .... so he got less than what he would have got from the Browns because .... well there is no because, that makes no sense. He took less than he would have got by dealing with a team that likes to win trades.... so that means they dealt with a team that negotiates even harder than the Browns. It doesn't stack up .... Now factor Hoyer into the equation and now things start to makes sense for why they traded with 49ers. jmo.
It's been a tough week. I'm certainly more concerned about the FO than at any other time prior to the JG and McCarron trades fiascoes .... but I am hoping the FO stays and Hue. Give it the third year. See what it looks like when we actually give a plan time to work ... there is some genuine signs on game days (defense) that we are actually getting closer. Our run D is good. Genuinely good. We need a safety (or Peppers to have the light bulb go on) and a CB (and a healthy MG) and the D is going to be very good. Offense ... we need a QB. (* and WR's obviously!) Let's see if we have one in Kizer - and I have serious doubts - or if we can't land one in free agency - or draft one. . . . then lets re-evaluate.
You think Brown will all of a sudden be able to judge talent? We have one of the most incompetent FOs in the NFL and I don't see it getting better.
Hue and others wanted him. How much is that worth?
You say the Browns offer was consistent. Well if you want the guy and you are in competition with others do get him doesn't that mean you have to adjust the offer?
The point is simple. If you value the player then you outbid the competition.
If you feel Sashi is right that the offer stays as is then apparently you agree that a second rounder is all you would offer.
What should we have done differently in the draft?
2016 Taken the BPA...Wentz.
And go against the wishes of the guy you JUST hired to make the QB evaluations? The same guy who went to a private workout in a snow storm with virtually no other teams in attendance and came home raving about RG3? Ridiculous.
One slight problem trying to place all the blame on the Bungles ..
League rule states EACH TEAM must submit it ... same team can’t submit for both teams ..
It doesn’t make u stupid ... it makes u uninformed ...
No, not uninformed as I never said it was the correct way to do it. I do recall a snippet out there saying that the teams are supposed to submit separate paperwork.
Sashi also said that it's the way they've done other deals. So far I haven't seen anything to refute that they have indeed done it that way previously. Short of the League or other teams we've made deals with coming out and refuting that claim, I think we have to take his claim at face value.
So what does that mean? It means that while there is a way you are supposed to do it, there's been another way business has been done and the League still found it acceptable.
Presuming my train of thought is still correct as we move forward, this isn't to say that Sashi still isn't without blame or criticism. If this is/was a common practice for us, there could/should have been more due diligence on our part to see if the Bengals operate the same way or are more 'by the book'.
But other than that, even if he didn't like the trade deal, he still put it together and sent it out with 5 minutes to spare in a manner they've done business before.
I also think someone (even Sashi's Asst) should have been on the phone with somebody on the other end when they sent the email to at least get a voice verification that they had received their email.
I think that this at least ought to be enough to put to bed the claims of insubordination and foot dragging to purposefully sabotage the deal.
Since alternative theories are the flavor of the day.. what are the odds that the Browns actually acted in good faith, but the Bengals purposefully screwed the pooch hoping to make the Browns look bad enough to trigger Jimmy in to cleaning house, making Hue available to take over for Lewis?
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Hue and others wanted him. How much is that worth?
You say the Browns offer was consistent. Well if you want the guy and you are in competition with others do get him doesn't that mean you have to adjust the offer?
The point is simple. If you value the player then you outbid the competition.
If you feel Sashi is right that the offer stays as is then apparently you agree that a second rounder is all you would offer.
Sorry but I disagree.
Hoyer was the tipping point. I don't understand why that continually gets ignored when this trade is discussed.
Hue and others wanted him. How much is that worth?
You say the Browns offer was consistent. Well if you want the guy and you are in competition with others do get him doesn't that mean you have to adjust the offer?
The point is simple. If you value the player then you outbid the competition.
If you feel Sashi is right that the offer stays as is then apparently you agree that a second rounder is all you would offer.
Sorry but I disagree.
Hoyer was the tipping point. I don't understand why that continually gets ignored when this trade is discussed.
Hoyer is why BB easily pulled the trigger for the trade. He's not into bull##!t...
Exciting football will be back in Cleveland this fall!
Hue and others wanted him. How much is that worth?
You say the Browns offer was consistent. Well if you want the guy and you are in competition with others do get him doesn't that mean you have to adjust the offer?
The point is simple. If you value the player then you outbid the competition.
If you feel Sashi is right that the offer stays as is then apparently you agree that a second rounder is all you would offer.
Sorry but I disagree.
What is the Brown's equivalent to Hoyer that they could have offered? I think the point you guys are missing is that BB needed more than just a Pick. He also needed to get a legit back up/ possible bridge QB. Hoyer is that guy and I think he is what made a deal with them more appealing.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Hue and others wanted him. How much is that worth?
You say the Browns offer was consistent. Well if you want the guy and you are in competition with others do get him doesn't that mean you have to adjust the offer?
The point is simple. If you value the player then you outbid the competition.
If you feel Sashi is right that the offer stays as is then apparently you agree that a second rounder is all you would offer.
Sorry but I disagree.
Hoyer was the tipping point. I don't understand why that continually gets ignored when this trade is discussed.
I agree. I believe offering a 2nd and 3rd like was reported for McCarron wouldn't get the job done. That doesn't help them now. They would have needed someone to back-up Brady. The only team in the NFL that could oblige is San Francisco. I believe Chris Mortensen said via twitter not to blame the Browns FO, the Patriots weren't going to deal with them. Perhaps that's why.
- they sent it to the trading partner before they sent it to the league ...
They did it that way this time ...
I’m not sure why they would send it to the trade partner first ... maybe to make sure their both submitting the same thing ... i dunno ... that could be it ...
So OK .. thats their standard business practice ... got it ...
Do they not have clocks in the building or on their cell phones ... they were obviously up against the deadline ... OBVIOUSLY ...
Weather they sent it to Cinci or not .. that doesn’t CHANGE THE LEAGUE RULE on trade deadlines ...
At some point BEFORE 4:00 PM maybe, just maybe ... they ought to have something over to the league ...
Did they think cause they sent it to Cinci it GOT THEM AN EXTENSION on the trade deadline??? ..
All your doing is shifting what they were INCOMPETENT ABOUT ... it doesn’t change the FACT they were INCOMPETENT ...
I think the fallacy here is assuming Garoppolo will be a savior.
Nothing is guaranteed. I think if Garoppolo was a guaranteed prospect that teams would be offering a lot more than a 2nd rd pick for him? I mean teams mortgage their future picks just to trade up to draft Wentz or Goff, so why not for Garoppolo? What's the difference?
Wow, I stated a blatantly obvious truth, that noone on this board knows what happened, because they weren't there, and I get dismissed because I don't put much weight in tweets that have "Rumor" in the title.
People here make me laugh.
Nope, don't have an alternate rumor to counter whatever is out there. Nope, don't have an alternate theory either. Don't really care enough to get that wrapped up in it.
These FO vs Hue threads have reached a new height of absurdity. My favorites are "stay the course" but "fire Hue."
Several of us saw it coming back in April and early summer - we knew and accepted we would still be bad this season. Really bad. I have personally been predicting a Top 5 pick in the next Draft since the last Draft, and I never expected more than three wins this year.... and you, Vers, even called all of this before preseason with "folks know we're bad, but will still get upset and call for heads when the losing becomes real" (words are mine, but covering what you said).
Yes, losing sucks folks, but if you didn't see this coming, you simply refused to acknowledge where this team is right now.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I think the fallacy here is assuming Garoppolo will be a savior.
Smartest comment I've heard here.
IMO. He has accuracy issues. He throws behind the receivers. He can hold onto the ball too long. He doesn't continue progressions when pressured. Doesn't keep his eyes on receivers when pressured. Has problems hitting the mid to deep sideline passes. He has poor escape ability. Just to name a few.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
I'll take Sashi over Hue. I've spent a couple of days thinking about this stuff and I can't help but think that Hue is the issue.
We all agreed the team looked better on paper at the beginning of the season. Kudos to Sashi.
We didn't like the loss of Pryor but we understand that it's a business decision with TWO sides. Sashi is representing The Browns well in negotiations, IMHO.
Not getting AJ? Bullet dodged. Not getting JG? Did we even have the chance?
Teams like the Jets are getting it done with less talent. Hue is not. Time management, team preparation, play calling, getting the most out of the players... That's all on Hue.
So in my opinion only one of these two is doing their job and that is Sashi. I have no bias against either man. I don't care if it all gets blown up either. But if we are going to keep one over the other then my vote is Sashi.
Teams like the Jets are getting it done with less talent.
Gotta disagree with you Dawg.
Teams like the Jets have veteran QB's. Sashi released 2 veteran QB's this year. One to the Jets. Not Hues fault he doesn't have a veteran game manager to put on the field.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Teams like the Jets are getting it done with less talent.
Gotta disagree with you Dawg.
Teams like the Jets have veteran QB's. Sashi released 2 veteran QB's this year. One to the Jets. Not Hues fault he doesn't have a veteran game manager to put on the field.
DO you honestly think Sashi released a QB that Hue was even remotely considering giving the reins to, or making 'the guy'. No way that Hue wasn't involved in deciding which QBs made the roster. His plan just backfired so now it's Sashi's fault.
Despite the clamoring for all about a rift...makes for a good column and all journalists feel its their right to kick the Browns while they are down.
But I honestly think in regards to QB they the 4H club (Harvard, Harvard, Harvard & Hue) sit and openly discuss about it and there are no Real big one sided decisions that were made.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Teams like the Jets are getting it done with less talent.
Gotta disagree with you Dawg.
Teams like the Jets have veteran QB's. Sashi released 2 veteran QB's this year. One to the Jets. Not Hues fault he doesn't have a veteran game manager to put on the field.
DO you honestly think Sashi released a QB that Hue was even remotely considering giving the reigns to, or making 'the guy'. No way that Hue wasn't involved in deciding which QBs made the roster. His plan just backfired so now it's Sashi's fault.
I just can't see a NFL HC totally agreeing to release the only veteran QB he has for backup. It just doesn't make sense IMO. Maybe he did and if so they all should go, not just Hue
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Wow, I stated a blatantly obvious truth, that noone on this board knows what happened, because they weren't there, and I get dismissed because I don't put much weight in tweets that have "Rumor" in the title.
People here make me laugh.
Nope, don't have an alternate rumor to counter whatever is out there. Nope, don't have an alternate theory either. Don't really care enough to get that wrapped up in it.
You aren't being dismissed Ham. I think most people agree with you and don't feel the need to comment. What you said makes sense and most objective people who read the opinions of others and actually reason/think agree with you. You are correct...we simply don't know.
Now...please stop being so logical so we can get back to ridiculous over-the-top accusations and gifs like we regularly get from Vers.
What value do you place on Garoppolo?My placement of value is totally irrelevant in this discussion. I do not have any say in this. I'm not playing GM or anything like that. I'm stating what value we placed in JG and what we placed repeatedly seems to be about right. Hue and others wanted him. How much is that worth? Again we made several offers to BB and at the end he didn't even want us in the equation cause he had a plan. He knew we weren't offering a first rounder. You say the Browns offer was consistent. Well if you want the guy and you are in competition with others do get him doesn't that mean you have to adjust the offer? We actually ended up pretty accurate in our assessed value in him? As the reporter mentioned we want to Win the Deal...I'm not agreeing with HUE/FO but they have an overall plan regarding trades I get it. The point is simple. If you value the player then you outbid the competition.
What part of this discussion don't you get we weren't in this competition for player? We just weren't and it wasn't from our Guys.
If you feel Sashi is right that the offer stays as is then apparently you agree that a second rounder is all you would offer.
Again what I or you want is totally irrelevant. Sorry but I disagree.
Go right ahead but I'm not doing the Fairy tale thing. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Sashi nor Hue. I'm trying to sort out the facts and see what happened. You wish to play some game of GM...go right ahead. You don't disagree with me cause I never stated what I WOULD DO AS GM Cause it is totally irrelevant.
Knock yourself out...
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
One slight problem trying to place all the blame on the Bungles ..
League rule states EACH TEAM must submit it ... same team can’t submit for both teams ..
It doesn’t make u stupid ... it makes u uninformed ...
That's the part he won't address. The Bengals could get the paperwork in on time but Sashi couldn't. Deliberate or inept? It has to be one or the other. He avoids the reality and then claims he won something? lmao
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Are we all rubes who can't get this disconnect? Maybe if you had budgeted oh, ten minutes instead. Too simple. Too complex. What do you see as a fan to whom this would matter?
Another interview for appearances. Hue, this nonsense is possibly how Marvy Marvin in Cincy was made. This is how it starts.
What will the HC change that might pay some benefits? More coaching, less interview. Stop trying to schmooze fans and win one. Punish the guilty.
Last edited by Bard Dawg; 11/07/1705:23 PM.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
The big knock on the Browns is that the front office tries to “win the deal” in every transaction.
Sorry but this guy is a Bozo...not saying the fact presented were wrong but for years these Bozo's think Cleveland deals are there to EMPOWER other teams.
Ummmm yeah I hope they always try to WIN THE DEAL! Is this guy for real saying that is the negative.
And yet we have the Collins trade DONE.
They can say all they want fact is we didn't waver our offer from all those months and that was that. They made the deal with SF and didn't include us cause THEY KNEW WHAT OUR OFFER WAS - we were not going to all of a sudden start including First rounders. So they were tired of us for not OVERPAYING FOR JG...lol Bozo's think we are here to make other teams better not the Browns!
same thing this guy said a year ago.. there is a time to just get the deal done.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
Sorry but this guy is a Bozo...not saying the fact presented were wrong but for years these Bozo's think Cleveland deals are there to EMPOWER other teams.![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)