DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer Round 3 ..

I know. I'm just a bit surprised you are joining in.

I think everyone here knows I am pro Hogan and still am...I think he should be our starter.

but Hue doing Kizer trial by fire.

Lord help us. but if we are going to do it that way then don't look back.

give this kid the year. I strongly believe that we are going to draft the top QB this coming draft no matter how bad or good Kizer is.


I know Hogan had the one bad game but Kizer has had eight and Kessler did Kizer no favors this last game...my god.

I think in 2 or 3 years years we will be on top of our division and the rest will be on the decline.

so sayeth me

No, no, no. Hue bashing was so last week. Now it's bashing Hue bashers.



On a more serious note, pretty sure their was one play book from the beginning.

It was big enough for all of them. Some might have said too big.

Report: DeShone Kizer 'lit into' WR Ricardo Louis
Cleveland's young quarterback demanding more from his pass catchers.

Josh Edwards - 16 hours ago
0
https://scout.com/nfl/browns/Bolt/Cleveland-Browns-DeShone-Kizer-lit-into-Ricardo-Louis-110416462

Cleveland Browns quarterback DeShone Kizer reportedly 'lit into' wide receiver Ricardo Louis 'for giving up on that play' after Sunday's 38-24 loss to the Detroit Lions.

The Browns offense ended the game with an interception in the back of the end zone. Louis was the targeted wide receiver on the play. It is unclear if the wide receiver did not finish his route or Kizer was upset that he did not make an attempt to dislodge the ball from Lions cornerback Darius Slay. It ended a Cleveland scoring opportunity and any chance at a comeback.

Kizer had his best game of the season having completed 21-of-37 passes for 232 yards, a touchdown and an interception. He also had 57 rushing yards and an interception.

Louis had two receptions for 15 yards on six targets.

It is not a good time for wide receivers to start showing a lack of effort because Cleveland has options coming soon. Wide receiver Corey Coleman is eligible to return this week against the Jacksonville Jaguars. Wide receiver Josh Gordon is able to return Dec. 3 against the Los Angeles Chargers. The addition of two wide receivers likely means that the Browns will part ways with two wide receivers currently on the roster. In addition to Louis, the team has Kenny Britt, Kasen Williams, Sammie Coates, Bryce Treggs and Rashard Higgins.

Good for Kizer. Kid has leadership skills and holding people accountable is part of that. He doesn't need to do it publicaly, but it needs to happen. Props to him.

I agree and after watching and then re-watching him in last weeks game I have a new found hope that he can be the guy. It's still far too early to tell but I hope by the end of the season we will be saying let's build around him in the draft.

J/C

Deshone Kizer is up for rookie of the week on NFL.com.

Go show our guy some support!

You know what, no matter the bad play on offense... if the defense makes a good play - I've seen Kizer rushing the field to celebrate. Special teams too. He definitely has leadership skills. Just needs to learn the game and distribute the ball.

I kind of agree with what you are saying, but you are missing an important point.

There are a few basic things that a QB needs to do before you put him on the field. Being able to make his reads is one of those things. Carson Wentz, to my surprise could do that week one. Kizer could not. A few of us saw that in the preseason and thought it was a mistake to start him right away. If we would have started someone else and let him work on making his reads instead of the gameplan each week, he'd be farther along right now. It's just my opinion, but I did say that this would happen in preseason. His mechanics got a bit worse during the season as well because he was falling back to bad habits. So he's a little better now at making his reads, but a little worse at his mechanics than he was week one.

I still think he has enough tools to turn into a good QB. I also think you'll see massive improvement in the off-season if he works hard at it. I am just thankful that he hasn't been seriously hurt so far as long as he has been holding on to the ball.

j\c
I still don't care how that KISER played he never should've been drafted in the first place place let alone starting in the NFL and its all on the buffoons in the FO including Haslam even tho I Hue aint that great but its not on him

Dawg I agree we should draft the top QB with our #1 pick. If DK pans out then it is a bonus. You could end up with 2 starting QB's where you can trade one away for picks and other players. It would be much like the Pats situation with Jimmy G. except we should hold out for more. It is some speculation on my part but it can come to fruition down the road.

J/C

Kyle Kelly, a reporter for Browns Wire, tweeted that the Browns had a 10.8% drop rate against the Lions. Speaks volumes of the lack of quality we have.

Kizer earned the highest PFF grade of all players at 87.5, which also made PFF's weekly NFL standout players - One of the cited reasons was he completed 2/7 passes over 20 yards but was also credited with two drops, so his adjusted completion percentage deep was 57.1%. Even cooler, that also excluded the 37 yarder that was taken off the board due to the holding call on Devalve - which would actually jump it to 62%.

Some nice strides from him. That was the point of throwing him in to the fire. See if he can learn. He undoubtedly has.

Next week he's taking on the best defense in the NFL. They lead the league in fewest yards against, lowest passer rating against, most sacks, 3rd most interceptions and fewest touchdowns.

After impressing against the Vikings and Lions, both of whom have impressive defences, another strong outing could really solidify his place.

I think that Kizer is developing, but is being held back by the team around him. Right now we are playing both backup Tackles, a bunch of inexperienced TEs, and a WR group who should be 3rd and 4th options. I admit to being wrong about Britt, who performed with little to no talent at QB with his prior employers, but who seems to be uninterested in playing here.

Despite this mess, Kizer does seem to be getting better, and he does seem to be figuring things out as he goes along. He's far from perfect, but he is improving. I just wish I knew if he could develop to the point of being a reliable starter, or not ..... or whether we need to draft a QB high in next year's draft.

The first issue is unrelated to the second. We need to take a QB high win the draft regardless of Kizer's future. The QB room is awful and we need to do everything we can to improve it.

My instinct is to take another quarterback. Until we know for certain that it isn't an issue, we cannot be confident in intrusting the position to a single player.

However, reality isn't that simple.

Taking a rookie immediately means that camp is going to be divided. Reps will be split rather than one quarterback learning with his starters. There are hardly enough practice reps for one players to develop sufficient chemistry, much less two quarterbacks. That isn't a step in the right direction of continuity and preparedness, it's just again putting us behind teams who don't have a quarterback competition in place.

And that only intensifies when the game starts. No matter who wins, a single mistake and you'll see fans and media begging for the other guy to come in. It places the unnecessary burden of having to look over your shoulder at the other guy. Fans won't be content with the named starter. Heck, Kizer had a career game and the topic of conversation that followed was lamenting the loss of Brock Osweiler - who Denver fans are currently wishing was dead.

I love the idea of taking someone, making him the guy, giving him time and building around him. Not a perpetual back-and-forth through camp and the season. That's the least desirable situation, not the best. People like to reference Brady/Garappolo, but Brady was an unquestioned veteran starter with complete support from the organization. It didn't create controversy or detract from the necessary repetition that Brady, a notorious snap hog, needs to play at the level he plays at.

If Kizer flops over the next seven games, it's the right way to go, but I'd be seeking to avoid it unless it was absolutely nessecary.

I say we offer the sun, moon, and stars to Cousins, trade for Garroppolo (if the 49ers get Cousins), and draft a QB with each of our first round picks. Maybe one in the 2nd too.

At least Kizer didn't take a knee...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THwfQlNGPiU

Depending on how the final seven games go, you might be right.

It will certainly be a difficult decision for the organization at the end of the season unless Kizer can force their hand. Even with his improved play in recent weeks, he still needs to take strides before the end of the season.

Frustrating, undoubtedly. I can point out a lot of incredible quarterbacks who struggled greatly as rookies. Jared Goff was absolutely awful last year but now he's having an incredible year in which he's amongst the best in the NFL.

There is part of me that knows sixteen games just isn't enough to make an accurate assessment of a quarterback - particularly one like Kizer who is extremely young but undoubtedly showing some signs of improvement.

I know this much - If we do decide to bring in a new quarterback, I'll equally desire him getting more than just a single season to establish himself.

I watched a highlight video today of Kizer's positive plays in the Detroit game - yes I know, one highlight video, one game - and I looked for a couple things vers mentioned in a post where he gave thoughts on DK's game.

To me, he looked decisive on a lot of throws, he showed some touch when necessary and wasn't throwing everything 90 miles an hour, except when he had to. He was also hitting the receiver in the right spot - us old-timers call it 'on the money'.

IMO - it might be wishful thinking and probably is - the game might be slowing down for him. We shall see.

I am cautiously optimistic. I hope he continues to show growth.

He had a nice checkdown pass to Crow I believe, may have been Duke, but it had nice touch for a RB in the flat area to catch.

Hopefully it's true, the game is slowing down. Coleman and Gordon will be nice additions to target too for him. I think a few big chunk passes and Kizer's confidence and rhythm could get hot.

It would be nice...

It certainly would be. These last several games will be telling.

Louis should be cut.

I don't want to watch him take another snap.

Dropped passes are just shy of turnovers in helping the team lose.

Louis and Njoku lead the Browns with 3 dropped passes a piece.

That's it? Honestly, I thought it was more. Huh.

I think he meant per game...

Thanks for the link. Not as bad as I thought.

Another example of why ... STATS ARE FOR ....

Louis has 3 drops in multiple games ... i bet i can find a site that says he has 7 - 10 ...

His hands are HORRIBLE!!!!

I guess I'd like to know what the definition of a "drop" is.

Is it "if the ball hits you in the chest, with no defender within 3 yards of you, and you drop it." Or is it "the ball was extremely catchable and you dropped it."

I agree 100% bud and I could not have said it any better. I think the benchings gave him some time to digest what he had to learn somewhat. ALso from knowing him from ND he is a person who really needed to eat some humble pie. I think it has hit home to him finally and I think he has a real chance now to start growing the way he should.

j/c:

I saw Louis drop three in one game. I think it was the Raven game. He's dropped a bunch more. Njoku has dropped more than three.

I think those stats are bogus.

Not slamming whoever posted them. I just disagree w/the site that posted thos ridiculous totals.

Kinda where I was coming from.

It didn't say how many games played. I think the league leader showed 6 drops. It has to be more than that. Even the best receivers have 6 drops by this point in the season. We are 9 games in at this point. Depending on the number of targets, near a drop a game wouldn't be all that bad.

Again, it all depends on what the definition of "drop" is. But honestly, a drop a game is too many. JMO.

And also, I don't know how they count drops - but the way I count them, there's more than 3 for the season. (for them) I only base that on MY expectations, granted.

Last year's league leader only had 9 drops.


https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?seas...amp;sortOrder=0




And maybe this will help clarify...

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2016/

I wonder if we should stop posting the "dropped passes" stats? Anyone who watches the games knows the numbers are inaccurate.

even the 'targets' numbers are somewhat misunderstood as a target could mean anything... uncatchable balls don't do much for anyone.

If that is true, then we shouldn't listen to people around here talking about drops if the league leader had only 9.

That page didn't even make a lot of sense to me. The leader had 9 drops. The article said if it hit the receivers hands.

Sometimes it hits their hands as they are twisting backwards, or in a full dive. Those should be called drops, but the stats shown obviously don't include those.


I wonder who is scoring the games? In baseball, you have a official scorer. They are employed by MLB. They are paid $170 a game. They try to be as consistent as possible, across the league/baseball.

Does football have this or is the scorer some sportwriter/fan?


To Arch's point, ok, maybe a drop a game is high, but not that high if given enough targets. A top receiver catches 100-120 balls a season. Is 16 drops really a unacceptable amount? Especially if the scoring is as outlined in the article linked.


I don't think so

Just to add.....if a drop in called, why should it count against completion percentage for a QB?? A error doesn't count against a pitchers ERA if that player scores or someone else scores because of the error.


Another example of why baseball is as perfect a game that is possible.