DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jaguars' Tashaun Gipson spares only the fans in bashing the Browns

lol.. who should i blame? he was/is the gm lol. lets blame the water boy lol.

Your telling me that the 4 YEAR CLUSTER F he saw here had less to do with it than Sashi “jerking” him around? ...

Lets recap ...

2012 - he played for the Walrus/Shurmer regime as a rook ..
2013 - he played for the Banner/Chud regime
2014/15 - he played for the Farmer/Pett regime ....

Then in that off season WE CLEANED HOUSE AGAIN ...

In 2014 as a second year guy he was WITNESS to one of the biggest DEBACLES in the history of the NFL ... Shanny could not get out of here fast enough ...

If he would have stood for 16 he would have been playing for his 4th regime in 5 years coming off a 3 win season ....

Sorry bro ... i’ll go ahead and use some common sense on that one regardless of what some articles say ...

I agree 100% that some folks don’t want to give an inch ...

I will say this ... based off what happened with JG and what Shefters saying and based off what happened with Cinci ... Sashi seems to think he’s back in his ivory tower at harvard when “negotiating” trades ... WIN WIN WIN ....

He wants to WIN every trade ... and thats going to make u the last one other NFL teams are going to pick up the phone and call when looking to play ball ...

Some on here stick up for this ASSININE STRATEGY when it comes to trades .... u don’t want to LOSE a trade ... u want to do whats FAIR and BENIFITS both teams .... u don’t try and get every last ounce out of a deal to the detriment of your REPUTATION AROUND THE LEAGUE ....

Simply put ... u want to walk away from the table with both sides thinking they got what they wanted and a good feeling ... u don’t want to walk away with the other side feeling like they were in a fist fight and not wanting to do it again!!!!

A whole friggen year? I don't get what you mean.

Gipson was here for 4 years. He was an undrafted FA rookie who played in 10 games that year. He gradually got more and more playing time throughout the year and Jauron threw quite a bit of praise his way.

In his second year, Gipson was a full-time starter and had 5 interceptions and a whopping 95 tackles.

The next year, he had an incredible 6 picks in 11 games and then went down w/the injury, yet he still made the Pro Bowl.

He played in 13 his final year here even though he was battling injuries. He even played at corner late in the year because our team had no one else left, w/so many guys going on IR in yet another terrible season.

I understand why he is upset w/Sashi and the FO. I'm not asking you to agree, but I don't think my opinion is whacked.

I will take it a step further. Some posters like our FO's tough way of handling contracts and trades. But, the NFL is a people business and it's not good business to alienate the people you have to deal with. Our owner has a company that has made headlines for ripping off their customers and Sashi is a finance attorney. So, while they [and some of their fans] might gloat about tough negotiating and winning trades, the word gets around in the NFL and you end up w/a situation in where other teams don't want to deal w/you and FA's give up more money to play in a better environment.

Sometimes, you outsmart yourself.

Good post. I think the one thing you are forgetting is that Sashi was in charge of contract negotiations when all the crap started w/Gipson. Then, he was promoted the next year.

Lets blame the new GM who just took over ... once again .. BRILLIANT ...

Appearantly u cant comprehend that fact and want to blame him for PAST FAILURES ...

I’m done here ... its water under the bridge and u clearly have an agenda and hate the FO ....

U simply can’t see or refuse to admit that BOTH SIDES HAVE WARTS in this ....

Your now the president of the Anti-Pop club ... ...

I didn’t forget bro ...

Two things ...

- i don’t know who Gipsons agent was or how much contact he had with Sashi before Gipsons contract .. there may have been some bad blood between them .. but i still don’t think that would override what Gipson saw in his first 4 years and the fact we were heading into his 4th regime in 5 years ...

Can u at least give in a smidge and agree that Sashi came into a bad situation based off Gipsons experience here? ... i know u will bro ... your fair ... sometimes stubborn (unlike me .. .. ) .. but your fair ...

- as the contract negotiator hes doing what someone else tells him .. he has parameters when he starts and then i’m sure he reports periodically whats going on in a negotiation .. and hes told what the bottom line is and what offer to leave on the table when its al said and done ..

Although that may make to much sense for the thief to have that structure in our org. ... *L* ...

Of course I can. The constant turmoil in the organization has to wear on players. I will add that Jimmy made this bed, though. Not sure how that is Gipson's fault?




I agree that Farmer might have not wanted Sashi to keep Gipson. But, I have a feeling that Sashi was gaining way more power throughout the course of Farmer's last year. We kept hearing about "too many chefs in the kitchen," and then somehow....someway.....Sashi gets promoted to the top position in the organization after that year. And I know I keep asking this..........but what did Sashi do in his previous year's to warrant such a promotion? He had to have impressed Haslam in some way, because it sure wasn't w/his NFL resume. I really can't buy that he was just Farmer's boy and didn't have any say in negotiations.

Adding to that, it appears that the Browns didn't try all that hard to keep Gipson when Sashi did take over.

I'm kinda stuck on this thing now w/Sashi and Haslam. Winning on every deal isn't always such a good thing. It's a people business and alienating the people you are doing business with is not necessarily good business.

I blame the thief 100% for this ENTIRE MESS ...

Hes the one that created it ... i often wonder where we’d be if he fired Banner/Dumbardi and kept Chud as HC ... i would have liked to seen him have a chance ...

I dont blame Gipson at all .... not even a little ... our disagreement is in the roll Sashi played ...

I don’t think it was his fault either ...

Agree 100% on the winning thing ... your 100% correct ... its all about the people .. and the nfl is a VERY VERY VERY SMALL COMMUNITY .. your reputation in that community is a HUGE FACTOR in where players land via trade or FA ...

U best have a good relationship with the other 31 gm’s/teams and the agents ... it makes YOUR JOB MUCH EASIER ...

Oh ... and u and i agree 100% about Sashi’s qualifications ....

U and I and many others DIDN’T UNDERSTAND IT THEN and are still struggling with it ...

Makes no sense ... hes Carmon Policy jr. ... *LOL* ...

A team lawyer/business side guy that ends up in control of the football side ... BRILLIANT ... ..

Oh Gawd here we go again with the hind sights and innuendos. Moving forward now. There is no where to go but up!

Respect is earned, not given. We haven't done a damned thing to deserve any.

I'm smart enough to know the truth when I hear it. I'm smart enough to know there isn't one single, rational argument to go against a word he said.

I'm smart enough not to make up a bunch of BS to bash him for telling the truth.

I agree with Vers that it was Banner that drove Gipson out of Cleveland.

Yo Tashaun you owe your entire NFL career to the Cleveland Browns. Many of us had your back the entire time you were in Cleveland. Now you want to open your mouth and trash the team that kept you from working at a 7'11 for the rest of your life. Way to disrespect those who gave you everything you have today.

You have gone from a nice bright young guy to a total ungrateful donkey in a metter of a few years. I bet your momma is so proud..... NOT.

What did he say that was so bad? Seriously?

You guys say "team" like it's a unified thing and not a collection of people. Only the fans would call this organization a team, especially when Joe Thomas has been the only thing that has lasted over a decade and the next person isn't close.

Trashing the Browns. Sorry Bro but they gave him his chance. they are responsible for him having the chance to be a millionaire but he wants to crap on them.

Total lack of class

I disagree. He played well for them and they lowballed him in contract talks.

Sashi and Haslam need to understand this is a people business and they can't "win" every deal. It might be smarter to play fair.

Let me give you an example. I am making art pieces that I sell online, at antique shops, art shows, etc. I don't try to rip people off and get as much money as I can for every piece. I try and make a bit of a profit while giving my customers a quality product at a fair price.

Word of mouth goes a long way, bro. The word can help you do business or it can hurt your business. The lawyer and the owner [whose company cheated people out of millions] might want to learn that fact.

OK So lets say the only reason ANYBODY has seen your art is because somebody hired you and invested 1,000,000 in your future. Your art catches on and the people who invested in your future offer to double your salary, but you say screw you I can get three times as much on the open market.

That is bull CRAP and it is what Gipson did. Now he wants to bash them even more. Screw you Gipson, you ungrateful SOB.

Just curious bro ...

Was the thief even the owner when we signed him? ...

And who was here now that was here then that he owes something too ..

Was Sashi responsible for giving him his chance here?

Was Depo responsible for giving him his chance here?

Was Hue responsible for giving him his chance here? ...

I’m not sure exaclty who it was that he’s suppose to be “loyal’ to that gave him his start here ...

The only possible one is the thief ... and he’s taken the FACTORY OF SADNESS to an entirely different level ...

I don’t really see who he’s “in debt” to here .... some of the secretaries maybe ...

I'm with you GM... Dude should be grateful to the team that gave him his chance. Doesn't matter what individuals we're here or have moved on. . . . I disagree that once he's a free agent that he shouldn't get whatever he can on the open market. It's a business. Teams cut players all the time, it has to rub both ways. But you can leave and still stay grateful for the opportunity the team gave you and stay classy.

Seems others think if you speak truth you can and should say whatever you like. I'd say that's dangerous grounds for some.

The Browns organization.

Exactly. You cannot separate the components (players, fans, FO, etc); it's a single entity...

I don't buy him being grateful to the team. Teams cut players all the time. Why aren't they "grateful" for a player's service. It's a business and pretending it isn't is odd.

I also can most certainly separate components of the team. For instance, I think Joe Thomas is a great guy and I think Haslam is a thieving snake. I can separate the fans from ownership, the FO, and even the players.

I'm not asking you to do the same, but I don't think it's fair for people to make such definitive statements when it's simply their opinion.

This is interesting, especially if you compare the intent of the two individual sentences.

I’d say if he OWES ANYONE its Tom Heckert the guy who actually SIGNED HIM ...

U guys are ridiculous ...

Pretty sure the fact he made the Pro Bowl while here is PAYBACK ENOUGH ...

If I were him I’d REGRET having signed with us ... let me guess .. no other nfl team had interest in him ...

What we did offer him over anyone else interested in him is a MUCH EASIER PATH TO PLAYING TIME .... why should he be GRATEFUL to us ... for SUCKING ..

U guys want to COMPLETELY IGNORE the fact we were 19 - 45 in his 4 years here ... and the fact he played for 3 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT REGIMES in 4 years and the would have been playing for his 4th in 5 years of he stood ...

Its INCREDIBLE ...

Like Vers pointed out .. where’s the LOTALTY from the teams??? Its a two way street .. not with u guys ....

He hurt your feeling cause AS USUAL right now WE SUCK even worse than his 3 win season here and he told the TRUTH about it ...

bbrowns

The FO is made up of people ... its not some mythical entity ...

the PLAYERS are people ... there not mythical people .. HOW MANY PLAYERS ARE STILL HERE HE PLAYED WITH???? ... WE KNOW AT LEAST 4 of them re gone .. *LOL* ...

Right now the only people he owes anything to are the Jags ... why ... cause as of now THEY SIGN HIS CHECK ...

U can continue to WHINE without me ... i dont care to see grown men CRYING ANYMORE ...

Does that make me unloyal ....

Later dawgs ... lets go kick some jags asses!!!!!!!!!

Agreed, but it's hard to blame the Browns either.

The Jags did offer him more, but like has been mentioned, they are almost certain to opt out of his contract at the end of the season when it balloons to $9M per year. They're already in cap hell, yes, but he's ultimately just not worth that much money. He's already the 10th highest paid safety, but the bump in salary will put him slightly behind the likes of Earl Thomas, Harrison Smith and Devin McCourty.

And why would the Browns want to keep him for that price? He was part of a secondary that allowed 34 passing touchdowns to 11 interceptions, a 101.8 passer rating, a thumping 8.2 yards per attempt and 27 points per game. Our bunch of rookies are already significantly better against the run and about equal against the pass.

That 2015 team was loaded up on Bryant, Starks, Dansby, Kruger, Robertson, Gipson, Whitner and Williams. That level of play out of veterans with that much experience is totally unacceptable. We've ultimately got Shelton, Kirksey, Collins and McCourty playing beside rookies or guys like Kindred, who are getting their first year starting. And our kids are in their first year with Gregg Williams - the veterans were in year two with Pettine.

I can understand looking at that 2015 roster and wanting to move on. It just wasn't good enough. This young team makes mistakes, but they're already better and, more importantly, they fight harder.

It was hard to separate who deserved to stay and who deserved to go, but Gipson isn't exactly showing up the Browns by being an overpaid, inconsistent member of an extremely good team. The last time he played at this level was four years ago.

Good on Gipson for getting his while the getting was good. From what Gipson himself has said, the Browns openly allowed him to do so without trying to complicate things. Didn't play him along, wished him well and then got on with the rebuild.

He can be as mad as he wants - he was on a 3-13 team of veterans with no future. At least our 0-9 team is a bunch of kids, a lot of whom seem to have an extremely bright future.

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!...

So wait, what?

You're saying if a player takes a better deal we can blame the Browns front office for not making a better offer? Also, you're saying if the Browns make the best offer and the player decides to not sign and play somewhere else we can blame the Browns front office?

In what circumstance should we avoid blaming the Browns front office?

Wait! Sometimes we DO NOT blame the FO? When did that start?

Life used to be so much easier . . . .

This was a triple shunt class bypass. You are not suddenly worlds better and different; own what you had a part of here. PB or no, this was you as well.

j/c:

I guess we should praise the FO for not keeping Gipson. We are so much better off at FS. Way to go, FO!!!! You are the best!!!!

I understand how some fans may see it that way. But that's not how it is. That's like saying you work for a company and suddenly it comes under entire new management. That management screws you over to the point that to get fair wages, you have to take a different job.

Do you love that company? Not anymore. That company is represented by the people who run it. Does that mean you don't like the people you worked with and the atmosphere? No it doesn't.

You see, our fans see this as a sport, as our colors and our name. Players see it as a job and a career. That's two completely different perspectives.

I don't think we should praise the FO for this decision, but also IMHO, we should not condemn them.

I don't think it was personal issue, but a management philosophy, so there are no reasons to take it personal.

On the other hand,I think there are no players in any sport that would not want to crush the team that released them... It's only natural.

What's interesting is that you should comment on those two sentences.

Diam - and others - we can disagree. But I think it's entirely rationale for a player to feel gratitude to the team that drafted them and gave them opportunity. You see it all the time from elite players - they express gratitude to a team that drafted them even when they were a top 5 pick in the draft .... For some reason LT springs to mind, I think I remember him expressing enormous gratitude to the Chargers for drafting him and being part of their organization . . . . LT didn't take the attitude that you and some seem to express that because he could have been picked by ANY team and made ANY team better/great ... that he doesn't need to hold some gratitude for the Chargers to be the team that actually took him..... In the case of an undrafted rookie I'd think the gratitude might be a little more than a future HOFer like LT. jmo

And - I specifically mentioned this is a business. A player can be grateful and respectful to the organization that gave him his chance AND STILL LEAVE for the best offer and serve personal self interest/career when his contract negotiations allow. I don't blame any player getting the best deal he can.... and when you factor in all the regime changes and culture of losing we have had at the Browns - I blame them less. . . . But, coming back to Gipson's comments. Just because he went through 3 regime changes - and just because he is speaking truthfully/observantly .... it doesn't make it okay for players to imo diss the Browns.

I wonder how many posters would be okay with someone like McCourty coming out and speaking truthfully but dissing the Titans a week before we played them????

I get that the Browns have been more dysfunctional - have missed on more draft picks - and are currently on a horrendous losing skid ..... but that doesn't make it okay for players from other teams to kick the team or the players or the coach or the FO or the owner. imo

I'm sure he feels gratitude to the guys who picked him up. But those aren't the same guys who let him go. People in the FO don't wear Browns masks.