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You completely ignored the hateful "fire Hue" posts by guys like Mourg and decided to chastise me.

Dude, you are a phony!

I don't have a link? LMAO..............I have Gipson's word. Did you forget about that.

Btw-------Sashi was in charge of contract negotiations when Gipson's contract was coming up and Sashi was in charge of the roster when we let Gipson walk.

Will you accept that? If not, will you apologize if I provide links to prove those two statements? Or, will you twist things around and continue w/your hateful, personal attacks. I'm betting on the latter.

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I have you on ignore, too. Why do you keep responding to me?

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I've spoken up for keeping Hue all through the season. Thanks for asking me a question un-related to the topic.

As for Sashi and how much influence he had - and if the Browns let him walk .... without rehashing the Pryor and Schwartz and other players that left the team for smaller contracts than they were offered by the Browns, we'll have to disagree on the definition of "let him walk".

As for Gipson saying that Sashi alienated him .... I just reread the entire quote and it mentions Sashi not once.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/11/tashaun_gipson_predicts_jaguar.html


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Okay 888, we disagree.

I never reply to you "first." But for some odd reason, you get upset if I reply to you AFTER you get on my ass.

We don't like each other. Big deal. But man, let it go. I will gladly never post to you again. This bickering stuff is old!

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Okay 888, we disagree.

I never reply to you "first." But for some odd reason, you get upset if I reply to you AFTER you get on my ass.

We don't like each other. Big deal. But man, let it go. I will gladly never post to you again. This bickering stuff is old!


Fight. ooo


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That's fine with me too. I've been happy to respond to you and point out your BS ever since you flat out lied about my posts saying I wanted Hue fired. Very happy for you not to respond to me.


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
j/c:

I think our sensitive fans are way more troubled about what Gipson said than the players are.

Man, some of you whine a lot.


There was a large skirmish before the game where several Browns players confronted Gipson to "discuss" his comments. The refs had to break it up...before the game even started. I'd say there were plenty of players upset with his comments...I don't think Crow was in that skirmish...so he won a shirt.

Man, some of you agenda-post a lot.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I have you on ignore, too. Why do you keep responding to me?


Would you please provide a link to all the posters you have on ignore? So we can continue to not care?

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I have you on ignore, too. Why do you keep responding to me?


Would you please provide a link to all the posters you have on ignore? So we can continue to not care?


What a great question Willie ... my day wouldn’t have been the same w/o that insightful, well thought out question ... Thanks man ..... rolleyes




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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I got it, lamp.

You are pissed about what he said. That's fine.

I am not pissed about what he said, but I am pissed that Sashi alienated him and he left. I hope that is fine?


Part of me wants to be pissed about what he said, but I just can't be.

If the team wants respect, they need to earn it. If the fans want their team to have respect, they will have to wait until the team earns it.

We own the worst 47 game stretch in NFL history. Which includes Tampa Bay's expansion era. That record is likely to continue. We are the joke of the league.

Remember how bad Jax was not too long ago? And the Rams? We were really bad at that time, too. Look at them now. And look at us now. I think it takes more effort to suck this bad for this long than it does to improve.

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I'm not going to read this whole thread to find out one piece of info. But Nathan Zagura said on Channel 5 at 11am on Sunday that Gipson was offered more money to remain here. Is that actually true?


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No idea, but I don't know Zagura as one to spread crap.


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I heard the same thing, and while I tend to believe him, I haven't been able to find anything in writing that supports that.


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There were written reports stating the opposite. I think one of them might even be on this thread. Not sure about that last part, though.

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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
No idea, but I don't know Zagura as one to spread crap.


Me neither.. I really don't know the truth and would love to.


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Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
No idea, but I don't know Zagura as one to spread crap.


Me neither.. I really don't know the truth and would love to.


This is part of an article that was written when Gipson signed w/Jax:

Quote:
Multiple sources have reported that Gipson has reached an agreement with the Jacksonville Jaguars, and he joins three-time Pro Bowl center Alex Mack (Atlanta Falcons), right tackle Mitchell Schwartz (Kansas City Chiefs) and wide receiver Travis Benjamin (San Diego Chargers) in leaving the Browns through free agency.

During the regular season, the Browns tried to seek contract extensions with several of their impending free agents, but Gipson was not among them, and with changes abound in the front office and coaching staff, he remained unsigned until Jacksonville targeted him Wednesday.

As a former restricted free agent who played on a one-year tender in 2015, there were limits to the communication that could be had between a player and his current franchise, but Gipson said there was no dialogue between the sides near the end of the season.

“I haven’t heard anything from the Browns, absolutely not,” Gipson said in the final weeks of the 2015 season. “I don’t know what the month of January might hold. I know that as of 2015, it’ll end without contract negotiations, ongoing contract negotiations between my camp and the Browns. You go into that saying, ‘Hey, anything is possible and anything can happen,’ so I really don’t know. I really cannot tell you.



Full article here: http://www.wkyc.com/sports/nfl/browns/tashaun-gipson-reaches-deal-with-jacksonville-jaguars/75066374

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Thanks for the link, Vers. That article seems to be his point of view, and I won't argue it, but I still wonder what the original offer from the FO was. As I mentioned, I'm unable to finding anything supporting Nate's claim.


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I think Zegura was mistaken. I don't think we ever offered Gipson money let alone more money...

Also, Gipson isn't here and our defense is better, so I'm not sure why all this really matters...

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I heard Nate Orchard during that same segment and he was 100% certain and was talking like it was factual. I don't know that I have ever heard Nate create a false narrative or make stuff up so I believe him.

I mean this really doesn't matter a ton - this was a past regime and I really struggle to understand how this would be laid at the feet of Sashi. The only place I found a breakdown on the Browns FO for 2015 is wiki -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Cleveland_Browns_season#Staff --
Front office
Owner – Jimmy Haslam
President – Alec Scheiner
Executive Vice President of Business Operations – Bryan Wiedmeier
General Manager – Ray Farmer
Executive Chief of Staff – Bill Kuharich
Vice President of Player Personnel – Morocco Brown
Special Advisor – Jim Brown
Special Assistant/Head of Innovation – Steve Gera

I know Sashi was an cog behind the wheels - and I guess he must have been important or influential because of where he has ended up. But I have to believe he was given direction on who to negotiate and communicate with from Ray Farmer - or one of the others listed above. I don't see a contract negotiator / salary cap expert taking it upon themselves to start a dialogue (negotiations) with someone he hasn't been told to by the people who were running the team.


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Originally Posted By: devicedawg
I think Zegura was mistaken. I don't think we ever offered Gipson money let alone more money...

Also, Gipson isn't here and our defense is better, so I'm not sure why all this really matters...


I agree it doesn't matter - except with the agenda of trying to blame Sashi .... However Gipson is better than anyone we have on the team right now at his position and he's rated 14th best FS by PFF ... I'd prefer he was here. It's just not a decision that was controlled by our current FO.

Last edited by mgh888; 11/21/17 11:59 AM.

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j/c:

I thought that Sashi received his promotion at the beginning of January 2016 and Gipson left in March of that same year? Is that incorrect?

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IIRC his diminished production and injury his final year here was a big part of the reason he was allowed to walk. Also, IIRC, not many people here had a problem with it, citing his lack of production and his holding out for a big payday as reasoning for being okay with him walking. Of course I may be wrong on both these points, but that's how I remember it.


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You may be right, but that would still mean the majority (the "meat") of negotiations happened before Sashi got his promotion.

You could argue that Sashi's influence was already rising, and his promotion is merely evidence of that... but I dunno. Going back to to Gipson's comments, I don't think that he pointed out Sashi, or Depo, or even Farmer and past guys. We've had so many people in decision-making roles in such a short time, does it really matter who was sitting in the seat in the exact point in time that Gipson left? I took Gipson's comments to be pointed at nobody in particular, just the Browns' FO over the years. We're a dumpster fire... and with the only possible exception being Haslam, it's no one person's fault.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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I also remember Gipson being upset that he was tagged the previous year and unwilling to negotiate after that point.

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To clarify my comment, I'm not saying Zegura is making it up. I've never heard of an offer to Gipson. Just thinking he might have been confused or misspoke.

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I don't recall Gipson ever being "tagged" either.

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Originally Posted By: devicedawg
I don't recall Gipson ever being "tagged" either.


Didn't he have his panties in a bunch because we tagged him with a lower round designation or am I thinking of someone else?

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Oh sorry, I misunderstood. Yeah, I think you're right.

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I am right. LOL.........

Sashi had more time to sign Gipson [had he wanted to] then Jax did, right? No one can say that Jax was negotiating w/him the previous year, right?

If you click on the link in the article I provided, you will see that Gipson was still hopeful about staying here.

Prior to the year, Gipson was tagged w/a second round tender. He said it cost him about a million bucks. He was hoping for a long-term contract that I don't believe ever materialized.

It's another example of this FO creating yet another hole to fill on a team that has a ton of holes.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I am right. LOL.........

Sashi had more time to sign Gipson [had he wanted to] then Jax did, right? No one can say that Jax was negotiating w/him the previous year, right?

If you click on the link in the article I provided, you will see that Gipson was still hopeful about staying here.

Prior to the year, Gipson was tagged w/a second round tender. He said it cost him about a million bucks. He was hoping for a long-term contract that I don't believe ever materialized.

It's another example of this FO creating yet another hole to fill on a team that has a ton of holes.



You just admitted that he was unhappy with the last front office, so perhaps you could admit for once that the last front office created this particular hole?

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That was one of my arguments, but also... does it really matter who was sitting in the seat at the time? All of our FO's have sucked. It's telling that we struggle to remember who was doing the negotiation with a guy that left so recently.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I am old school. You bash my team, you bash me.

JMO


They bash themselves. All you have to do is watch them play to see that.

It shocks me that some of our fans expect respect from other teams and former players when our team has done zero to earn any respect from anyone, including us fans.


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This entire subject just needs erased.

We are arguing over an average safety who hasn't played for us for 2 years.

Those trying to use Gipson as reason why the front office is incompetent just sound ridiculous.

The defense ranked 27 in 2015 and ranks 8 today. End of story.

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...and yet, if there was 1 thing our D needed...

It's a legit FS. :-p


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Reading through all of this, things are coming back to me:

As I recall, the previous regime(s) totally poisoned things with Gipson. From Farmer to Banner, they just seemed to make it their mission to jerk him around. By the time Sashi came aboard, the damage was done and it was a foregone conclusion that he was moving on from us.

I honestly don't think Sashi stood a chance at resigning him. Yes, he had time, but I don't think he had a chance.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Reading through all of this, things are coming back to me:

As I recall, the previous regime(s) totally poisoned things with Gipson. From Farmer to Banner, they just seemed to make it their mission to jerk him around. By the time Sashi came aboard, the damage was done and it was a foregone conclusion that he was moving on from us.

I honestly don't think Sashi stood a chance at resigning him. Yes, he had time, but I don't think he had a chance.


Not to mention the FACT he payed under 3 ENTIRELY DIFFERENT REGIMES in 4 years ... and he would have been playing for his 4th regime in 5 years ... i’d Bet that’s NEVER HAPPENEND IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE ...

The thief was hiring and firing like we change underwear ...

The most wins he saw in a season was 7 ... and in his last year that went down to 3 ... forget the playoffs or even a winning season .. he never even saw a 500 season ...

No one wants to mention or adress that ... HOW IN THE HELL DOES THAT NOT AFFECT YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS ..




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I'm sure this is an oversimplification, but I think the FO probably had a fair market value attached to this guy at the end of the 2015 season. I also believe he and his agent had extremely overrated his ability. Bottom line we moved on from him, and while we are light at FS right now, I'm not sure keeping him would've done much to change our current situation. Frankly, he's not that good, IMO. Also, I think he has a big mouth, with very little effectiveness to back it up.

I thought this was interesting (Select quotes from the article):


Quote:
"Some of those guys felt the need to address me and, you know, Mama ain't raised no punk," Gipson said, "so at the end of the day things got a little chippy, but that's the game of football."

"One of the guys thought it was necessary to say something to me, and I'm not backing away from no confrontation or anything like that," Gipson said. "I like to do the talking between the lines, but anytime something like that happens, I'm still a man first."

Gipson didn't have quite the impact in the game that he hoped to have on Sunday afternoon, registering four tackles, including one for loss.

"I feel like this defense can come out and pitch shutouts against anyone in the National Football League, not just the Cleveland Browns," Gipson said, referring back to his comments during the week, "but you see it, time after time, it's been (10) consecutive weeks where I feel like we've put out dominant performances."

"I would have played quarterback if I had to for us to get a win, I'm telling you that right now," Gipson said Sunday. "I knew we couldn't leave out of here without a win."

Link


Now he's suddenly the spokesperson and face of the Jags franchise? Play QB to get a win? What a joke. He's just a clown with big mouth, middle of the road talent, and five minutes in front of the camera.

JMHO


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But, but, but, we're only allowed to point the finger at the players who leave! Don't bring common sense into it.


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Regarding fair market value... one other thing I think was going on is that Gipson was dinged up quite a bit leading up to contract talks. He spent portions of the previous seasons injured and not able to play. Nothing major that I recall, but some stuff that kept him out for a few games at a time.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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I may be misremembering, but wasn't he out due to injury the last five games of his final season here?


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