DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer rnd. 4

I don't know man. so far Kizer hasn't smoked anybody.

I'll say again. I think Kizer is B. Weeden, and/or RGIII

all the arm you want in the world. But can't read a defense to save their life.

They all can scramble, throw to the moon, all three can not read a defense, all three cannot throw with touch, they can't throw with anticipation.

I'd argue that our receivers make it hard to anticipate what they'll do. Just as Kizer needs to work on his consistency, so do the receivers.

A year can make a lot of difference. If after next training camp Kiser has yet to show any improvement then someone else will be the Browns QB. But if he does learn and improve from his rookie year he will make it difficult to replace him. I know he has a lot to learn but the payoff could be worth the wait for the Browns.

It's too early to give up on Kizer, but given his performance this year, there is no way the Browns can afford to pass on drafting a qb w/their first overall pick.

I agree the Browns have to draft the best QB they can and let him compete with Kiser. Our past draft history is not that great when it comes to picking QBs no matter who is making the decisions.

I completely agree.

That said, I'm curious to see how Kizer looks with both Coleman & Gordon on the field together. Options with hands and ability.

I have no illusions that he won't still have his own issues, but at least those hopefully won't be magnified and amplified by receivers having their own issues.

That depends upon the reason(s) for not being able to complete them.

Agreed all around. If Cousins wants to come here, sign me up.

I'll slip in here to say we also MUST pick a WR high in the draft and/or grab a coveted WR in FA...regardless of how Coleman and Gordon progress.

Agreed. We need to overload/over-invest at the position to where we have some REALLY hard choices for the roster next August.
We need to do the same at CB, too.... and as we've both already said, doing it at QB is a mandatory given.

Dare I say it, but IF we pull that off, this roster will be where we haven't ever seen it.... we'll be at a point where we just begin to reload each year rather than playing catch-up and trying to continually patch gigantic holes.

[quote=eotab]j/c...Kizer just isn't THE GUY. He can improve but the things he can improve on is not what is holding him down.
If you cannot complete 50% of your passes...you just aren't fit to be an NFL QB

jmho [/quote
I disagree that a QB can't fix accuracy problems. A lot of that can come from indecision and anticipation which I feel will get better with experience and coaching. Not to mention having confidence in receivers. He may never be a Tom Brady but I think he can improve. Kiser has played 9 NFL games and is only 21. Way too early to give up on him.

Same convo, different thread....too early to give up on Kizer

Remember...

-the overall talent level (or lack thereof) on the team and especially on offense

-Kizer level of development, where most thought he shouldn't start


When you look at Kizer play through the prism of those 2 caveats I think its clear that its waaaaaayyyyy too early to write him off.......





I still don't get the philosophy on offense. Specifically when it comes to the lack of emphasis on play-action in the passing game, running the ball more (especially the nickel run game) and lack of use of Kizer in the run game via read-option concepts

No matter what happens the rest of the season I think Kizer deserves to return as the starter....maybe draft another QB after the 3rd round

But I suspect the opinion of Kizer will improve when Coleman and the Pothead return

You can't risk passing on a player that has a greater chance at success with the hope that Kizer might develop.

...Assuming this crop actually has a greater chance of success.

I totally agree. We need to draft a QB but I don't want to give up on Kiser. I'm all for drafting a QB and letting him compete with Kiser. Let the best man win. I just think with all his physical tools and Hue has said he is very smart, I expect Kiser to improve a lot in his 2nd year.

if possible Kizer's play is worse than Weeden's.

I would like to give him the grand tour of the "Pit of Misery".

If you're alluding to already nice pieces in place, I agree with you. But it all starts at the QB spot-- and it needs to be addressed again.

Outside of that both lines are really good. Our defense has really done well despite a couple of major holes. The fact that both Johnson and Njoku have been underutilized, adding a couple more pieces on the offensive end might boost the performance just as much as the defense this year. But it's all predicated on the QB, which I know you know.

WSU Willie talked about adding someone like Cousins....I think it is a long shot, but someone like that clearly would boost our team while amplifying, in my opinion, some of the players already here.

This roster doesn't suck. I think people need to realize that. It's young and inexperienced in many areas, but it's not bad.

Side note: I think a Duke Johnson extension is an easy offseason priority. I think a case could be made for Shelton as well, but we can pick up a one year option in 2019. Still, It'd be nice to lock people up long-term.

I think we will draft a QB much higher than the 3rd round. Lol
I also don't like you calling Gordon a pothead. Browns fans can do that, but otherwise...
Perhaps we don't want Kizer running the read option too much because we don't want to get his head torn off.
Say hello to RG3.

Totally agree with Vers, Kizer has shown he might be the guy, but definitely not that he IS the guy.
So, not only do we have to draft a quarterback even though Kizer could be our man, I believe we have to use that overall No. 1. To do anything else would be trying to be too cute by half. There are some good ones, and I haven't figured out which one I like best. Jackson, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, etc.. But just because there are a bunch does not mean use the second No. 1. We have to go all in on that position and if we end up with two good ones, so be it,

IMO, Kizer has played well in two games: against Pittsburgh (when there was no tape on him, Pittsburgh was still sleep walking, and probably didn't take us seriously) and at Detroit (who was just torched by Keenum and it was after our bye week with more time to prepare)

Agree with you. Its still to early, but what is troubling me the most is that he still hasn't showed glimpses of greatness.

With his mobility and his arm, I wouldn't give up on him, but he is a long term project at best.

Rosen please.

I have no idea what your front office will do, my comment is about what I think the FO should do. It doesn't make sense to use a 1st round draft pick on QB unless they are giving up on developing Kizer. And it doesn't make any sense to give up on developing Kizer. I can understand the FO wanting to hedge their bets on Kizer but you would hedge in the later rounds. Drafting a QB in the 1st round is a paradigm shift.

The receiving corps lacks talent, most can objectively recognize that. But for whatever reason many separate the receivers lack of talent with the QBs inability to produce even though the QB is dependent upon them.
There's some weird dissociation going on there. Kizer is receiving the blame for factors outside of his control. Kizer in essence is being blamed for the FO/Hue's decision to play him BEFORE he was ready. And Kizer is being blamed for the receiving lack of talent which everyone recognizes.
If Gordon, the pothead, returns and is ready to contribute alongside Coleman they will provide a better picture of the QB that Kizer can be.

There could be several reason why Hue doesn't use Kizer in the running game more often. We could speculate and debate over what those reason are. But, we can know without speculating that IF Kizer was used in the run game it would undoubtedly help the offense.

Hue has gone with his gut; well, that and he has looked at the bench. Kizer should run more.
Especially may get more than a two-yard pass. His staring down receivers and holding it too long along with picks and strip sacks is killing the whole team. I f we insist on playing him, game plan for him to cut your throat less. Drango could help with help.

Come on, Hue. Raise the bar. Like the old Hee-Haw joke: "Does it hurt when you do this?"
"Yes, it does"
"Well, then stop doing that!"

WE keep coming up shortened repeat our mistakes in similar fashion. Triage. Save what you can. Shoot the wounded and march. But don't repeat the same mistakes. At least try in a new direction and fail.

Or win.

j\c
I say stick with KIZER for 3 to 4 more yrs
Keep letting go of their decent players
Keep trading down to get more picks only to use them on half arsed players
Pass up on some great players while they are at it
Pick up some useless has been free agents
for three times what they are worth
Front office stays in tact.....And there you have it
......LMFAO

j/c

I think one of the things that work against Kizer and our O is the constant rotation of the WRs. I get Hue has some long, slower developing plays, and so you want to keep your WR's fresh... but there's just no consistency there.

We have Coleman back, and soon Gordon and so far the assumption is that we'll see them both on the field together as much as possible (I know Gordon has more of a curve on that). But why aren't we seeing consistent personal already?

Pick our 3 "best" WR's and stick with them just like we're sticking with Kizer. Let the WR's develop consistency with what they are doing. Let Kizer develop consistency with what he's seeing out of his WR's. Without that consistency trends and patterns (good or bad) simply cannot develop. And without that, the WR's can't comeback to the huddle and say "I can beat my man this way..." and Kizer can't say, "If you go this way I can't hit you there..".

I'm not sure the fanbase will be patient enough to stick with Kizer for 3-4 more years with these results though haha

As if the results will be different with [insert qb here]

edromeo, I do not think there is anything kizer can do in the next six weeks that makes me think we should not draft these best qb at the top of the draft. I am not the least bit concerned about having to deal with the problem of too many good quarterbacks. that would still leave us with five picks on the next 64 picks to add quality playmakers.

our new qb could compete next year with a second year deshone. really important that Kiser be a 2nd year qb in the same system with the same coach. hopefully our decision makers pick the right rookie qb.

I don't think it is so much the rotation that is the problem as just a lack of reps in general on each specific play. How many reps does each guy get on each play in practice?

How often do we run the same pass play in a game? Are all the pass plays different through the course of a game? I don't really recall a lot of instances of us running the same pass play multiple times.

Do we have a go-to play?

Also do not dismiss Kiser's toughness. He has taken hits that would have put our previous QBs out of games. Hue likes his intelligence as well which gives me hope that he will eventually start showing up on the field. I know he is feeling the pressure of showing he can be the QB the Browns want but remember he is just 21. I am not saying he will be a great NFL QB but he has the physical tools and seems to take to coaching. We will get him some true competition and let the best man win.

At this stage, we should burn all our draft picks and do deals and trade and acquire every QB we can. The poor QB play has been the biggest throat slitter of this entire team and front office.

I look for progress. We have not seen any. Too many mind numbing negative plays that make you wonder.

The fact that the Browns did not go into the season with a viable option bothers me. But the terrible season that Kizer has had to date says a change is badly needed. There are five games left. I hope he improves, but dropping the first pick on a QB is a necessity at this point in time.

Kiser has 6 games this season to show improvement plus an offseason before next training camp. I would use the 1st pick on a QB no matter how the rest of the season plays out.
If Kiser shows enough improvement and is the real deal then he will win the job next year in training camp. If not then whoever we take at #1 will win the job. I'm just saying don't be too quick to give up on Kiser.
Since 1999 what Browns QB has had the physical abilities as Kiser?
Has any Browns QB in that time span had less options around him?
Coming off a 1-15 season, being forced to start as a 21 year old rookie and having to learn under fire with the worst receivers in the league, it's hard for me to say I know he will never be a qualitiy QB.
If Gordon is able to play at a high level and Coleman can stay healthy, maybe Kiser can show improvement in the final 6 games.

You sure try hard to assign blame to Hue while defending every move the FO makes.

Limit the rotation? Really?

He can read a defense, and we've seen plenty of it. To an impressive degree from a 21 year old kid fresh out of a spread offense. The vast majority of his interception have been drops, terrible throws or standard issues that rookies have - most notably with linebackers or DBs dropping up off the under.

I think his problem is both himself, the speed of the game and the team around him. We're not generating much, if any, separation, and he's not disciplined enough to consistently hit tight windows or know what he can and cannot get away with.

I know people say that's an excuse, but I think quarterback play is more reliant on who they have around them. Get me a rookie QB with the #1 pick in 2018, I assure you I'll be banging on the table to get him some weapons too. As will the rest of us. We can't keep pretending it's not an issue just to convince ourselves that only one player is the problem because that's an easy fix. This offense needs some work.

However, things are looking bright with Gordon and Coleman back. Unfortunately, Kizer doesn't have chemistry with either and that's going to show. But they'll be improvements already and those three will link up next year and it'll be smoother.

I think people don't want to admit it because it's construed as a belief that Kizer is the answer; But he has shown improvement this year, and his team mates & coaches are the first to point it out. He's only 2/3 of the way through the season, and many say that the first-to-second-year jump is the biggest a quarterback will make.

I think that's exciting. It'll be a killer competition next year. But Kizer will be the day one starter and will win it out. That's assuming Hue sticks around. Any new coach/GM will undoubtedly move on immediately with 'their guy.'