DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns HC Hue Jackson Wants More Say In Personnel Matters Moving Forward

j/c:

After reading what Hue had to say about "the plan," I am of the opinion that Sashi and perhaps some other members of the FO needs to go.

I think Hue has the support of the players and the FO does not. I think that Sashi has bungled a ton of roster decisions and the players know it. The coaches know it.

I think it's time for Sashi to go!

the fact he wanted to trade a 2 and 3 for McCaron shoulda got him fired. I mean seriously. How pathetic would u have to be to believe this backup is worth more than what u offered for Jimmy G.

Well they are both backups so...

What could Hue say about "the plan"?

"It's working"- How is 1 win in two seasons working?

"It's not working"- He signed up for it, and is as involved as anyone in the on the field execution.

I guess he could have said something like "Time will tell," but he can probably see his running out.

...So Hue is already spread thin as the OC and HC, do you want him to be the GM, too? Who do we know he will work well with? Who do we know will be a good GM? Honestly, I feel like they are all hit and miss. Mostly misses for us. I think part of it is simply the fact that it is harder to be the GM of a bottom feeder in an undesirable location to most outsiders. What do you sell FAs on? The coach who probably won't last through a 2 year deal let alone a longer one? The QB? The "weapons"? The defensive "playmakers"?

The only thing they have for most players is money, and overpaying is not sustainable.

As far as the draft, it doesn't look great, but it doesn't look terrible either. Corey Coleman isn't setting the world on fire, but broken hands are hard to predict.

I don't see any terrible busts the past two drafts. No T-Rich, no Weeden, no Manziel, no Erving.

Peppers is struggling some, but he's learning a whole different position and being used way differently than he had before.

Is Kessler a bust? He's struggled as a starter, but was that expected as a late 3rd round QB. Is he good in the meeting room/as a clipboard holder?

They took 3 receivers in the mid fourth round or later, they had some traits and they probably hoped one would pan out. Higgins might be figuring things out. Louis drops are alarming, but he is contributing on special teams coverage.

Not every mid to late rounder will be a pro bowler.

They haven't even had 2 full seasons of their players yet. How much can we fairly judge?

I see you replied to me again. You do realize I have you on ignore, right? I haven't read one of your posts in months.

I heard the Hue presser today - and I really feel for the guy as he is in a no win situation with the questions he is being asked.

I agree with what you say about the draft picks for the most part - the things that stand out to me so far are the Wentz miss. That's a big one that is always going to stick to this FO. Also at #12 last year we could have taken Hooker. I really wanted him and I think he looks like he has a high ceiling. . . . while Njoku has flashed some, Peppers worries me a lot not withstanding that it's early. Is he a good tackler? Can he cover when needed? Will he learn the position? Those are big question marks. I think there is some young talent to get excited about, and other acquisitions like Collins are positives.

I hope Hue and the FO get year 3 to prove it. An NFL QB fixes a lot of things on this team even with the WR's that we have (and they have been woeful without Coleman) ... with a Cousins or Alex Smith (or Wentz!) at QB I bet we'd have a minimum of 3 wins and maybe 4.

Someone should point out the potential flaws in your arguments and add different perspectives. No one gets them all right. I was looking back through posts from the Wentz/Goff draft trying to remember which QB you were behind and came across this gem:



The post preceding that was about Goff and Wentz going 1-2 if you need a refresher on who "those guys" was referring to.

I haven't posted a ton the past couple months and have tried to be civil when I have. For someone who hasn't read one of my posts in months, you seem to be carrying a grudge an awful long time.

It's a message board. We talk about football. There are only so many people to respond to. While I don't always agree with you, I can at least see a semblance of logic behind your opinions (and your grammar doesn't make my eyes want to bleed)

You don't like me for whatever reason. That's fine. What about the reasoning of the post?

I liked Lynch better also but like Vers, I knew he would need a couple years to reach his potential. Fact is we thought all three QBs had talent but would need a couple years. I thought all were 20 plus talent. Just like this past year, teams are overdrafting QBs like never before. Just happens to be working out quickly for some of them as coaches install systems that duplicate a lot of what they did in college.

Wentz just happened to be in more of a pro system and really caught on quick.

I was the same. I didn't like Goff much though.

It was always Wentz for me of the big 3. No thanks on Lynch and Goff. Pass on Wentz and then my vote was Brissett. Kessler, admittingly, wasn't on my radar.

I think I'd take Mayfield in this draft at the moment. I believe he has the best chance of making it in the NFL of the quarterbacks in this draft.

Brown: “With Hue, the first thing you realize is he’s smart and tremendously competitive. He understands just like Paul, Jimmy, Dee and the rest of ourselves that everything we do here is going to be focused on winning. We’d like to create every possible competitive advantage we can. If that’s from analytics and if those apply, certainly, we’ll use those in our decision making to make sure that we put ourselves in the best position to win. Acquiring talent, helping Hue on the field with his coaching, it could be player development



maybe so... would not surprise me one bit.

The big mistake Hue made is not having a O coordinator. He doesn't have somebody to fire, which usually buys the head coach another year.

Funny how when camps opened Hue was gushing about all the talent we have, now he is pointing fingers.

I am still digesting on how in the world can a HC call 66% of pass plays against the best pass D in the league....

If if have to keep someone, lets keep Sachi then, at least you will have the continuity argument, staying with a mediocre HC has no point.

IMHO we would sign either Urban, Saban or Dabo, and let them manage this mess.

No point on beating a dead horse, the sooner we end this mess the sooner we can start the re-re-build

I want to keep the coaching staff together at least another year.

The FO, I could care less about. I think we would be best served by adding someone in there, and let the roles and responsibilities get shuffled around later (and possibly shed the dead weight once we get our feet under us). I think we have too many non-football people making complex football decisions, and a hire would do more to fix that than a bunch of firings.

The problem with wiping out the FO is also that the new guys will want to fire coaches as well. I want our coaching staff intact at least one more year.

I agree with your post. Keep the coaching staff at least 1 more year, heck our D is pretty good and it's not a finished product yet. Keep the FO too and just add a football man to help with personnel decisions. Give them more time. This is a total rebuild and we're barely half way through it. Let them finish what they started then we'll see where we stand. JMO

Yeah, when talking to the press you should tell them your talent sucks.

We have talent. It just needs to develop. One of the Lions players even said something to effect that we are more athletic than 24 other teams in the NFL. Not sure how he can know or say this, but it was nice to hear. Nice to see opposing players respect us.


With 0 or 1 win this year, I don't think Hue will survive and will be let go. The front office might not either, but I feel they are more deserving of staying.

I think this means "we have potential."

What about us fans wanting a say in picking players going forward.
( I know how stupid that sounds.) There's a point in here somewhere.

I didn't know what to think of this article at first.

Then I realized the Browns don't understand that the answere isn't in going to give Hue, (or anybody) more say in picking players going forward.

Ehh, It sounds nice and all, but begin to realize, I think this is about the same thing they've done, about 15-20 times over and over again, since 1999, and it Ain't worked yet, And it isn't going to work this time.


What's the point, What's the same and what could be different?

They Keep thinking the Answer is in picking players somewhere to Join the Browns?

The best teams in the League don't spend 8-9 months a year wondering who they are going to draft in April. The best teams in the league have a small group of contributors that have been together for several years.

The Browns need to find a way to keep the team together, develop what they have and add a couple contributors every year.

I'm pretty sure changing the decision makers on the roster would just mean getting rid of everyone and starting over, (player wise) , again.

No. You talk like Bill and a lot of ther coaches...you talk about potential, but there is a long way to go because potential doesn't always turn in to production.

You don't have to say they suck, but you don't have to gush about all the upgrades in talent.

Gush?

Can you give us a link that shows how he was "gushing?"

Hue Jackson is “pissed” at team, wants more power

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 2, 2012, 10:44 AM EST

Raiders coach Hue Jackson didn’t take Oakland’s latest defensive collapse well.

While he occasionally made a weak effort to take responsibility for his team’s loss, Jackson generally threw his team under the bus in a manner you don’t normally see from head coaches.

“I’m pissed at my team,” Jackson said after the game via the Oakland Tribune. “At some point in time, as a group of men, you go in the game, and you can say whatever you want about coaches, you win the game. Here’s your time. Here’s your time to make plays.

“We didn’t get ‘em stopped. And we didn’t make enough plays. So, yeah, I’m pissed at the team. I’m also, like I tell them, I’ll always put it on me, but I am pissed at my team. Because when you have those kinds of opportunities, you’ve got to do it, and we didn’t do it.”

Translation: I’ll always put it on me, except when I totally put it on you guys.

Jackson seems especially upset with his defense. (For good reason.) We wouldn’t expect to see defensive coordinator Chuck Bresnahan back next year.

“Chuck knows how I feel,” Jackson said. “I’m disappointed over there. I have been. It’s not like we haven’t had conversations. Chuck knows what I feel, and it’s not good enough. . . . When you play defense in the NFL, man, you got to hunt. You can’t give up 28, 29 points and expect to win.”

Translation: That’s Bresnahan’s defense. Got it?

Jackson’s solution for all the problems: More Hue Jackson.

“I’m going take a stronger hand in this whole team, this whole organization,” Jackson said. “There ain’t no way that I’m going to feel like I feel today a year from now, I promise you that. There’s no question. Defensively, offensively and special teams. I aint feeling like this no more. This is a joke. . . . Yeah, I’m going to take a hand in everything that goes on here.”

Translation: I haven’t fully considered all the implications of what could happen when the Raiders hire a personnel man to be my boss.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/02/hue-jackson-is-pissed-at-team-wants-more-power/

5/12 Hue Press Conference Link

Some of this is just Hue being Hue, but it definitely resembles "gushing".



That was just from the first google result for "Hue, talent, press conference."

...That tune didn't last very long.

I remember posting that article when everyone was gushing over Hue and I had some reservations. I remember getting blasted.

My, oh my................how things change. LOL

j/c

Imagine if Sashi came out through the media and let it be known that he thinks Hue should bench Crow and go with Kessler this Sunday? The crapstorm on here would be epic.

Hue is making himself look like a fool both on and off the field. He needs to shut his yapper and focus on getting "better".

Hue is going to force Haslam's hand here with his back-channel BS...and that is unfortunate for the team and its fans. Nothing leaks out of this FO...nothing. Yet Hue can't stop with the same BS that got him canned in Oakland.

Time to let Hue go and hand the team to Gregg and see if he is HC material.

Hue is just a mediocre Head Coach,I think we have established that...

We have 5 pro-bono games, might has well make them worth and evaluate what we have.

I don't want Hue to get fired...I really don't. I want him to figure it out...but he's showing very little sign of doing that. At the same time, he's back-channeling his thoughts through the media and that's a very bad look. He's slowly making his own bed.

I think Hue knows he's a lame duck. He's in a tough spot and sadly, I think there's very little he can do to keep his job.

Start winning and making good decisions.

You don't pass 66% of times against the best pass D in the league, period. Hue is just a mediocre Head Coach

I think we should try Gregg for HC for the rest of the season... Hue is done...

I have no clue why u think its an INTELLIGENT IDEA to have a lawyer with the final decision on all personal and roster matters ...

That’s BEYOND STUPID ...

Its not logical Willie ... i dont understand ....

That would be like putting Billicheck in charge of contract negotiations with your corporate clients ....

Its just PLAIN DUMB BRO ...

The lawyer in our case is the guy who breaks the tie between Hue and the FO talent evaluators - that's how it's said to be anyway. Someone has to be the tie-breaker...better the lawyer than Jimmy.

If Jimmy decides to change out the tie-breaker guy, I will have no problem with that. Hue passed on Wentz, fell in love with RG3 and was willing to trade Sashi's booty for AJ McCarron. He cannot have final say on the roster OR the QB...not yet anyway.

Isn't DePodesta the one calling the shots on personal and roster?

Wasn't Sashi a salary-cap guy for 12 years before he came to the Browns?

Except that it doesn't really matter.

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/11/22/coaching-carousel-candidates-chip-kelly-scott-frost

If Hue Jackson is fired, there are a few guys I would after from this list. Kyle Whittingham would be at the top of my list.

I hope none of that happens.
I want one more offseason, summer, and season as-is.
Same HC, same FO... no turnover, no changes.

I agree. I just think someone is going to get the axe if win one game or less. Historically coaches just don't survive losing this much.

We've already decided to be different as a franchise; I suggest that we keep doing it.

Agreed again. I just don't know if the owner has it within him. . .