DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Crowell vs. D. Johnson

Crow is JAG that Jekyll and Hydes his way through seasons. I'd take him back if he comes at a decent price, but won't shed any tears if he leaves for more money.

He still didn't break 100 yards against a defense that is ranked 28th against the run, although he would have if Hue gave him more carries. He'll get you a 4 yard per carry average, but not much more. For every decent run that he has, there is another run where he just runs into an o-lineman's back.

I honestly don't think Crow is all that great. He hesitates too much to just hit the hole. I'd rather we get a back that is more decisive and explosive.

I have no idea what you guys see at times. LOL

His vision, burst, wiggle, power were on display in this game. Yet, our fans complain and defend guys who suck.

they expect Crow to look like AP with defenders in the backfield.

oh, and did you know as bad as our OL has been in run blocking, crow is still somehow ranked 16th in the nfl in yards?

do you remember the breakdown i did for crow last season, how people were trashing him for no reason?

lets do a comparison to everyone's most loved and hated RB from the steelers: Bell.

Bell has 232 carries compared to crow's 145.

Bell gets 23 attempts per game, compared to Crow's 13.

just 13 freaking carries per game.

and yet, Crow has the same yards per carry average as Bell with 3.8, has the same longest run this season at 27 yards, and 3 runs of 20+ yards, which is one more than Bell does with 2.

Crow isn't close to being a problem.

and btw, even though this is last year, Crow is up against the same thing.

2) Isaiah Crowell, Cleveland Browns (5.88 yards per carry)
Seeing Isaiah Crowell's name on this list might surprise some, as he finished shy of 1,000 yards in his third pro season. However, what this should remind us of is that Crowell is indeed quite a good player, the Browns just so rarely found themselves in a comfortable game script for sticking with the ground game. While the Browns only ranked 19th as a rushing offense this year, that looks a bit more impressive when you note that they ranked 30th in run play percentage.

Crowell faced an eight-plus man box on 23.8 percent of his non-red zone carries and averaged 5.88 yards per carry. He was quite adept at breaking off big plays against stacked fronts with six 15-plus yard runs, two of which went for over 20 yards and one for an 85-yard touchdown against Baltimore. The Browns were primarily a three-receiver offense, with 37.4 plays per game (60.9 percent) run out of the 11-personnel package and Crowell took most of his handoffs (71) out of the shotgun. With Cleveland's subpar quarterback play, it only made sense for defenders to dedicate extra resources to stopping the run. Crowell showed he could step up to that test, despite less than stellar offensive line play for much of the season.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...t-stacked-boxes

#2 in the league against 8+ in the box with 5.88 yards per carry.

sorry guys but some of yall are definitely going after the wrong player on the team.

I thought he played well today ...

Except for when he tripped over his blockers feet ... talk about following your blocker ... *L* ...

He had a good game ... he took what was there today ... sometimes he doesn’t ...

Our o-line is run blocking well.

16th is exactly where he should be ranked. He's an average RB.

Yes, I agree that he doesn't get enough attempts.

He is nothing close to Bell.

I don't think he is a problem. I don't think that he is elite either. If we keep him, I'll be fine with it. If we lose him to a team that overpays him, I won't lose any sleep.

This team has a ton of holes. RB is not one of them. Yet, it seems a lot of fans want Crow gone and have no problem keeping our crap receivers and secondary guys. Brown's fans [on this board] blow my mind at times.

Did you try and keep an "eye" out for Crow's "vision" today? If so, what did you "see?" If not, why turn a "blind" eye?

This team has a few holes, not a ton. RB is not one of them but RB isn't a strength either.

We have an average RB in Crow and average RB's are disposable. If we keep him, I'm fine. If we lose him, I'm fine.

Our WR's do suck. Coleman is the only keeper in the bunch. We'll see on Gordon after the long layoff.

I like our RBs. We have so many other needs.

Let's be happy that RB isn't one of them.

I want to keep these guys as long as possible.

The Browns need to take BPA regardless of position. If that's RB, then so be it.

The Browns also need to be very, very aggressive in FA. Plug as many holes as possible. That way it's much easier to go BPA in the draft.

I agree with bpa. BUT only for positions we need. And RB isn't one of them.

It's like the QB crowd saying we need to take a QB for the sake of a QB.

Nope.

Draft for need. Get the best player for the holes you got.

QB ain't one. Neither is RB.

j/c

Crow looked good today...finally. There were some nice holes to run through and he did his job. Let's see if he can repeat that performance.

Crow is history at the end of the season .

As the legs of this franchise given our record, an upgrade is in order. Not sure I can give him high grades for intensity, urgency, or production. Would it be that hard to match his output?

j/c:

Sashi is out of the picture and we have a real football guy in here. That got me to thinking that we might keep Crow.

I have never felt this was about a Crow vs Duke issue. I have always looked at it as a Crow with Duke type of deal. They are a good combo and when our passing game matures, these two backs provide a very good combination.

I know that a lot of people on here don't like Crow, but I think he is a good back. Provided he doesn't ask for an obscene amount of money, I think that Dorsey and Hue might end up keeping him.

This team has a ton of holes and creating another hole isn't the best way to go about things. It was one of my main complaints about Sashi. Always creating new holes at positions that were not the issue.

I think Crow had his best game of the season against the Packers. He was very effective and made good choices and cuts ... didn't lose his balance etc

That said resigning him comes down to how much he thinks he is worth. Is he looking for Doug Martin type money or Mark Ingram type money?
https://overthecap.com/position/running-back

i don't think either crow or duke have home run ability, we need that kind of back...lets not let one good game cloud how bad Crow as been this year.. if we have a chance to take barkley you do it and wish crowell well. I think crow as backs go is middle of the road

I agree with this. I love Crowell, but he's not consistent enough. This was supposed to be his year for a breakout season, but he's been largely disappointing.

To be fair, the last three weeks he's rushed 45 times for 257 yards. That's 5.7 yards per carry. He's coming off a season high in rushing attempts with only 19. The last time he had 19 rushes, he had 157 yards. Crowell is a much better back as the game wears on, but a back like him paired with Hue Jackson just doesn't work. I mean, he's had 19 carries in a game just twice in two seasons. That's mental.

Yet, with that said, he's not exactly forcing Jackson to put the rock in his hand.

I wouldn't take Barkley unless we can add a guy like Kirk Cousins. Him with Gordon, Coleman, Njoku, Johnson and Barkley? Mercy, that could be some fun.

I see Duke as being more valuable than Crowell. However, because Crowell is a FA this year, perhaps they try and get him locked up but I'd try to secure Johnson first with one year remaining on his contract so you don't let him hit the market. I let Crowell hit the market because I think he wants a big deal. I don't think he deserves one in any way, shape or form. I think the new FO dynamic may have changed with Brown out and Dorsey in, but I'd target Duke first. If Crowell sees that Johnson is more of a priority, that may chap his ass more than it already is with his contract situation. I think you need to make a choice on which avenue you pursue....thus Johnson v Crowell.

Except for when he had a for sure touchdown in his sights on that long run against GB and he slowed down and then face planted on the 5yd line. He was then so gassed he went out for a couple plays.

I don't know...I like Crow but I think he is just serviceable and we need to find somebody who is bruising and threatening. I had higher expectations of the guy with a much better Oline in front of him. At this point I think we can look at all options at powerback (draft and FA). Also given the choice, I would definitely prioritize Duke over Crowell.

I tend to agree but I don't think they talk to Duke until next year. We'll see.

I think Crowell might actually be quick to sign.

If I'm Crow's agent, I'm reminding him that the 2018 draft is a CRAZY deep running back draft. There are so many good players likely to come out. In good RB classes, FA RB's don't get great contracts.

I'm also reminding him that there is a lot of talent in this FA period. Bell, McKinnon, Blue, Hill, Lewis. Supply and demand. We saw that happen last year, too.

Basically, if Cleveland offers a fair deal, Crowell's agent would be smart to take it. I can see a lot of deals being looked at like, "There are cheaper options in FA/Draft."

Perhaps. But isn't waiting until a contract year been mostly an issue for retaining good players on Cleveland since, well, ever? Schwartz, Mack, Ward, Sheard etc, etc.? That and the constant turnover. I think Sashi new this which is why he locked up Bitonio, Kirksey to lucurative, long term deals before hitting FA. I don't think Dorsey is dumb and hope he follows suit with that philosophy.

Good points. It comes down to Crowell and his team's percieved value on the market. Also, I wonder if Hue's approach to running the football may also end up being a factor? Probably not as much as money but you never know.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just wonder if Dorsey won't wait to see how the team shapes up after the off season. That won't preclude him from starting negotiations at the beginning of the year. I also think if we want to keep him Dorsey will find a way to do it (not saying we wouldn't want to keep him), and would expect a deal to be done before the end of the season to keep him from hitting FA.

Feed the Crow #paytheman

I want him to stay as a Brown, but I don't think it's going to happen. I think Dorsey will grab someone via the draft.

If he lets crow walk, we’re grabbing someone nasty in the first round.

Barkley.

I love crow. Keep him around. Please.

Pay him.

I don't think any of the teams Dorsey has worked for have ever selected a running back high in the draft.

Chiefs 2013-2017
Packers 2000-2012
Seahawks 1999
Packers 1991-1998

Nope. The third round is the highest round a team he worked for ever picked a running back.

well, 2nd round (Brandon Jackson, Green Bay, 2007), but the point stands.

That said, those are what those teams did, and it can easily be mitigated by whether or not those teams already felt they had a strong starter, or even premier, RB at the time of those drafts.

I would not be surprised if he went QB - RB in the first, just as I would not be surprised if he went QB - LT.

Agreed. Dorsey has never run the show on his own. I think anything is in play. With that said, he learned from all the people in the above drafts and it doesn't seem like they valued running backs very highly.

With Sashi Brown in charge I was pretty sure we would never draft a QB high in the draft. It should be a crazy several months leading up to the draft.

j/c:

I want to go back to my original intent for suggesting why we might [not will] bring back Crow.

--This team has a lot of holes. Creating another hole is something that Sashi did and it got us into even more trouble.

--I get that some people don't like Crow, but he and Duke give us a viable set of RBs. They both can run, catch, and block.

--Drafting a RB, such as Barkley [who is frequently mentioned] would cost us a very high pick and take away our ability to address more urgent holes.

--Our running backs will look better once our passing game improves.

--We have a ton of cap space and Dorsey is not Sashi. He might want to turn this team around in a hurry. I think Hue would concur and I believe he also likes Crow.

With all of that said, I think it will come down to how much Crow asks for. If it is reasonable, I can see Dorsey and Hue retaining Crow. If it is unreasonable, then he will be allowed to walk.

My bottom line is that I hope we can work something out w/Crow and also Duke. It is my opinion that we are a better team w/both of them instead of having to spend valuable assets on replacing them. And yes, I know Duke's contract isn't up yet. Just looking ahead.

I like the idea of keeping Crow. As you say, it depends on what he asks for. If we don't keep him, he's replaceable through the draft, and it doesn't have to be a day one pick. It's a good RB class.

Yeah, you can find RBs later in the draft or in free agency.

We have way bigger needs as of now ...

If we can get him on another one year deal ... i’d be all for it ... and by one year deal I mean NO GAURANTEED CASH after year 1 ...

If we don’t re-sign him ... i still don’t want to waste a first round pick on his replacement ...

As u said .. we can get one later in the draft or FA ... he’s not going to be hard to replace ...

You can't assume he won't be hard to replace. Remember when we were rolling w/guys like McGahee a few years back?