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I was in charge of a department once, with no control over hiring. After taking heat for not making top performers out of complete morons, I let it go to hell, then quit. The talent is on Sashi
The talent is on Heckert. . . and Banner/Lombardi. . . and Farmer and. . . Farmer is the main problem. Look at the top of draft talent that guy selected. We are still trying to recover from that moron.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I was in charge of a department once, with no control over hiring. After taking heat for not making top performers out of complete morons, I let it go to hell, then quit. The talent is on Sashi
The talent is on Heckert. . . and Banner/Lombardi. . . and Farmer and. . . Farmer is the main problem. Look at the top of draft talent that guy selected. We are still trying to recover from that moron. Farmer was a scout for the Falcons for 3 years. Director of pro personnel for 6 years for the Chiefs. Assistant GM for us for 1 year. GM for us for 2 years. Didn’t he qualify as the football guy people say we need? Helps to understand why Haslem took this unusual approach even if it is failing even more.
#GMSTRONG
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I was in charge of a department once, with no control over hiring. After taking heat for not making top performers out of complete morons, I let it go to hell, then quit. The talent is on Sashi
The talent is on Heckert. . . and Banner/Lombardi. . . and Farmer and. . . Farmer is the main problem. Look at the top of draft talent that guy selected. We are still trying to recover from that moron. Farmer was a scout for the Falcons for 3 years. Director of pro personnel for 6 years for the Chiefs. Assistant GM for us for 1 year. GM for us for 2 years. Didn’t he qualify as the football guy people say we need? Helps to understand why Haslem took this unusual approach even if it is failing even more.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Hue is 1-25 as a HC here and is responsible for that record, no matter how anyone trys to defend it ... I wish it were different. but it is what it is and the HC will pay for that record ... And the FO gets off scott free ...  Whats their record as a FO ... guess that don’t matter ... 
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Hue is 1-25 as a HC here and is responsible for that record, no matter how anyone trys to defend it ... I wish it were different. but it is what it is and the HC will pay for that record ... And the FO gets off scott free ... Whats their record as a FO ... guess that don’t matter ... You are what your record says you are - Bill Parcels. Seems to me that both groups own that same record.
#GMSTRONG
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 ... If thats what he said he should be sued for LIABLE ... Roseman(he’s the lawyer) hired FOOTBALL PEOPLE under him and also EXPANDED THE SCOUTING STAFF .... not a 28 year old dude with hardly any football experience as his top football brain .... Crap .. he had Tom Donahue in a full time roll and made him a consultant AFTER THE FIRST DRAFT unlike the harvard boys who fired everyone before the draft ... we still have no one with Donahues football backround ... He MADE TWO GREAT HIRES at least .... i know this because i took notice fo what he did ... He also doesn’t have FINAL SAY over anything personal wise ... he lets his FOOTBALL PEOPLE DO THEIR JOBS!!! Comparing Roseman and what hes done to sashi and what hes done is like comparing oBUMa to Trump ... the only thing they have in common is JOB TITLE but they sure as hell didn’t go about their jobs in anything REMOTELY CLOSE TO THE SAME MANNER .... If dude was making that comparision based off the fact Roseman was a lawyer he should be fired on the spot ...
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Appearantly u think having a lawyer as your FINAL DECISION MAKER on personal matters is a good idea ... if not, your just pointing things out to stir the pot .... Either way i have no use for your takes on this ... Now if your suggesting we go get the Tuna to be in charge of PERSONAL and to have FINAL SAY over all PERSONAL DECISIONS ... I’m jiggy with that and open for a chat ... 
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Hue is 1-25 as a HC here and is responsible for that record, no matter how anyone trys to defend it ... I wish it were different. but it is what it is and the HC will pay for that record ... And the FO gets off scott free ... Whats their record as a FO ... guess that don’t matter ... You are what your record says you are - Bill Parcels. Seems to me that both groups own that same record. I guess what blows my mind is that Haslam and Sashi both said they knew they weren't going to win a lot of games the first couple of years and that it was a "mulit-year" plan. I remember hearing about 2018. A lot of the same fans who just loved the plan are now assigning blame and most of the "vocal" ones on here put it all on Hue while giving the FO a pass. That is beyond absurd. No way in the world is Hue more responsible for the record than the FO is. That is not me saying that the FO should be fired. Instead, that is me saying that suggesting Hue should be fired for our record is dumb!!! If we believe in the plan, firing people is dumb. If we don't believe in the plan, then firing Hue does not help. This place amazes me at times.
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The team is exactly what should be expected.
I hoped for 4 wins. However, that doesn't appear to be in the cards.
We tore this team almost all the way down last year, and finished the demolition this year. Out went Greco, Haden, Hawkins, and almost everyone else with more than 4 years experience. We lost Thomas a few weeks ago. We lost Collins. We lost Carder early on, and now have lost Meder and Ogbah. Garrett has played only a handful of games, and Corey Coleman is just returning from injury. (and no one can tell me that there's a test that can predict broken hands)
This team is in need of another infusion of talent. Hopefully we keep our draft picks, draft the best QB available in the draft, and spread the rest, along with a couple of high dollar free agents, among WR, CB, RB, and OL.
We should be able to find 5 quality players, given that we will have 2 1sts, 3 2nds, and a 3rd at the top of round 3. Next year, as the plan has been all along, is the year when it should start turning around. I will be sick to my stomach if we blow things up again and start over ..... yet again. Yes it's been difficult, but anyone who was paying attention knew it would be. I admit that I thought it would be somewhat better, but I mean 3-5 wins better ..... not some behemoth playoff team. The front office has done a good job in the draft. We had a lot of holes, they made some smart picks to fill them. They aren't perfect, but that's the point of the extra picks ..... so if they hit on the same percentage of picks, you wind up with more good players.
I just hope that Haslam doesn't panic and dump everyone, so we can start over .... again.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Either way i have no use for your takes on this ...
Understanding your comprehension level, I’m actually pleased with this sentiment.
#GMSTRONG
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The team is exactly what should be expected.
I hoped for 4 wins. However, that doesn't appear to be in the cards.
We tore this team almost all the way down last year, and finished the demolition this year. Out went Greco, Haden, Hawkins, and almost everyone else with more than 4 years experience. We lost Thomas a few weeks ago. We lost Collins. We lost Carder early on, and now have lost Meder and Ogbah. Garrett has played only a handful of games, and Corey Coleman is just returning from injury. (and no one can tell me that there's a test that can predict broken hands)
This team is in need of another infusion of talent. Hopefully we keep our draft picks, draft the best QB available in the draft, and spread the rest, along with a couple of high dollar free agents, among WR, CB, RB, and OL.
We should be able to find 5 quality players, given that we will have 2 1sts, 3 2nds, and a 3rd at the top of round 3. Next year, as the plan has been all along, is the year when it should start turning around. I will be sick to my stomach if we blow things up again and start over ..... yet again. Yes it's been difficult, but anyone who was paying attention knew it would be. I admit that I thought it would be somewhat better, but I mean 3-5 wins better ..... not some behemoth playoff team. The front office has done a good job in the draft. We had a lot of holes, they made some smart picks to fill them. They aren't perfect, but that's the point of the extra picks ..... so if they hit on the same percentage of picks, you wind up with more good players.
I just hope that Haslam doesn't panic and dump everyone, so we can start over .... again. I couldn't agree with you more, and I'm starting to get paranoid that Haslam is going to be a fool and blow it all up. Which would be disastrously hypocritical - $10 says Sashi and Hue were told from day one that they needed to tear it down and the team would be patient while they got it right. At the very least, I'd hope Haslam would stick to the plan to allow the team an opportunity to highlight that we are willing to commit to continuity and patience with rebuilding. Going 1-31 would suck, but we're kidding ourselves thinking these two years were going to be anything beyond 6-26 at best. You rip down a roster like this, it's going to show. We're not drafting poorly. We could have done better, of course but we've added some nice players. This isn't a Lombradi/Farmer-esque sitation in which we didn't get any good players. Our team respects their coach and are fighting hard. By all accounts, the players believe in themselves and their team, there isn't reports of infighting amongst players or people not getting along. I don't see the harm in giving it one more year. The fans who have turned their back on the team aren't fans anyway. F$*k them. Overturning the roster every two years because some will throw a tantrum isn't how you build a team.
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Hue is 1-25 as a HC here and is responsible for that record, no matter how anyone trys to defend it ... I wish it were different. but it is what it is and the HC will pay for that record ... And the FO gets off scott free ... Whats their record as a FO ... guess that don’t matter ... In a way, no, it doesn't matter. Hue is the head coach. It's his job to get the players to perform to their peak ability. I believe you could have coached this team to 1 win in 26 games. That's called luck.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Either way i have no use for your takes on this ...
Understanding your comprehension level, I’m actually pleased with this sentiment. Better be careful or he'll sue you for liable. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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In a way, no, it doesn't matter. Hue is the head coach. It's his job to get the players to perform to their peak ability.
Just because the front office drafts a player, it does not mean that players is ready to compete at a NFL level.
It takes time, sometimes years, to develop a player.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Hue is 1-25 as a HC here and is responsible for that record, no matter how anyone trys to defend it ... I wish it were different. but it is what it is and the HC will pay for that record ... And the FO gets off scott free ... Whats their record as a FO ... guess that don’t matter ... You are what your record says you are - Bill Parcels. Seems to me that both groups own that same record. I guess what blows my mind is that Haslam and Sashi both said they knew they weren't going to win a lot of games the first couple of years and that it was a "mulit-year" plan. I remember hearing about 2018. A lot of the same fans who just loved the plan are now assigning blame and most of the "vocal" ones on here put it all on Hue while giving the FO a pass. That is beyond absurd. No way in the world is Hue more responsible for the record than the FO is. That is not me saying that the FO should be fired. Instead, that is me saying that suggesting Hue should be fired for our record is dumb!!! If we believe in the plan, firing people is dumb. If we don't believe in the plan, then firing Hue does not help. This place amazes me at times. I actually think what you're saying here supports the firing of hue. You said Sashi and Jimmy said we wouldn't win a lot of games the first two years of a multi-year rebuild. However, we aren't winning any!
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In a way, no, it doesn't matter. Hue is the head coach. It's his job to get the players to perform to their peak ability.
Just because the front office drafts a player, it does not mean that players is ready to compete at a NFL level.
It takes time, sometimes years, to develop a player.
So now you're defending the front office? My head is spinning.
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Firing Hue accomplishes nothing.
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At this point does it really matter who is at fault?
Hue? The FO ? Both ?
At the end of the season Haslam will make changes. I highly doubt that everything will remain the same.
The question is what changes will Haslam make?
If Haslam decides to bring in a team President? Or whatever title you want to attach. Someone in the Elway position. Be it Manning or someone else. Then that person will decide what the "new" organizational chart will look like.
My guess is it will follow a more standard type of org. chart. I doubt that Sashi will remain. Unless it is in a reduced capacity. Analytic's more than likely will have a role but will not dictate draft choices.
I think you would see a heavy emphasis on a strong scouting department with the GM/President at the head.
Depending on the person Hue may remain. That could go either way. The new hire may have a guy he wants. If that is the case there is nothing wrong with that. It is imperative that the coach and GM be able to work closely together.
Haslam decision time will happen. Manning could be the guy. That decision will be his because you can bet Haslam will ask him. If not Manning then someone else will be brought in.
I think it absolutely matters "who as fault." Jimmy needs to ask is it my fault for hiring the wrong people? Do we have talent but are the coaches failing this team? Are the coaches doing a great job and we still just lack talent? I think as an owner you need to figure out what is wrong and not just blindly fire everyone and start over. Then he needs to assess what must be done to fix it. I think despite the lack of QB, the FO has shown they can find talent. I think you could also surmise that we are a young team and Hue and his coaching staff are doing a good job developing the guys here. Look at guys like Kindred and Coleman who are having good seasons compared to last season. I think there's a case to keep everyone but if Jimmy determines a change is necessary he needs to figure out what's in the best interest of his franchise for today and for tomorrow...
Last edited by devicedawg; 11/25/17 09:28 AM.
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And firing the front office also accomplishes nothing.
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I don't call for the FO to be fired on every post like you guys do w/Hue.
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In a way, no, it doesn't matter. Hue is the head coach. It's his job to get the players to perform to their peak ability.
Just because the front office drafts a player, it does not mean that players is ready to compete at a NFL level.
It takes time, sometimes years, to develop a player.
So now you're defending the front office? My head is spinning.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Who is you guys? I'm simply pointing out that hue is part of the "problem" while guys like you and mac believe he's innocent.
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Truthfully when Farmer was hired I was optimistic.
He did have the resume.
The problem was once he actually had final say he proved that he was incompetent.
Maybe because in the past he didn't have the authority so he could look and act the part.
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In a way, no, it doesn't matter. Hue is the head coach. It's his job to get the players to perform to their peak ability.
Just because the front office drafts a player, it does not mean that players is ready to compete at a NFL level.
It takes time, sometimes years, to develop a player.
If A player develops, then by that time, they "want too much money" " weren't going to come back anyway" And We'll find some other loser who doesn't know how to play football to replace them, so that we can watch Just about any halfway decent team in the NFL and see former Veteran Cleveland Browns rostered players playing games for that other team.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Seeing as the harvard boys have not given us any hope for next year, if Haslam makes no changes, 1-45 could be a real possibility. How many years is it going to take before expecting to win 1 game is a reasonable expectation? 5 years? 6? 7?
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Seeing as the harvard boys have not given us any hope for next year, if Haslam makes no changes, 1-45 could be a real possibility. How many years is it going to take before expecting to win 1 game is a reasonable expectation? 5 years? 6? 7? Yep. And the worst part is that as Browns fans, we're so used to losing that if the Browns win 6 games next year, if the Browns go 6-10, people will be posting on this board as if it was a great triumph for the Browns. And why not? The Browns are unlikely to win 6 games next year.
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In a way, no, it doesn't matter. Hue is the head coach. It's his job to get the players to perform to their peak ability.
Just because the front office drafts a player, it does not mean that players is ready to compete at a NFL level.
It takes time, sometimes years, to develop a player.
If A player develops, then by that time, they "want too much money" " weren't going to come back anyway" And We'll find some other loser who doesn't know how to play football to replace them, so that we can watch Just about any halfway decent team in the NFL and see former Veteran Cleveland Browns rostered players playing games for that other team.
For the Browns, this scenario is repeated on a far too regular basis..sometimes "yearly".
While the Browns front office delivers an inspiring message to the fans, via the media..
...with comments such as....
"I think it says something to the locker room when you reward guys that do it the right way and make sure that they understand that being here in Cleveland we want to build through the draft certainly but we also need to retain our guys when we get to free agency."
...then reality sets in as the Browns coaches watch the years of investment leave Cleveland and resurface on teams playing meaningful games for some of the best franchises in the NFL. Some Browns free agents helping their new teams compete for and in some cases, win the Super Bowl.
...but they were not good enough to be resigned by the Browns front office.
Some of the Browns free agents have been coached by 2 or 3 different coaching staffs, yet find a home playing for the Broncos or the Patriots...
...it doesn't look like coaching was a big issue here in Cleveland and the present coaching staff might be the best we have had, despite the franchise's won/loss record over the last 2 years.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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J/C
Insight into the woes on O, Jackson in his pressers was asked about only getting one play off in 20 seconds prior to the FG v Bengals where other teams in the league would get multiple plays off:
"We're not equipped that way"
Tweeted by Keith Britton, Daryl Ruiter.....a few others
Thought the statement was very interesting in a number of ways, mostly as Hue is now publicly saying, "hey, I'm working with crap here".
#gmstrong
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Probably a good way to get fired as well.
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For someone who doesn't want Hue fired, you sure talk about him being fired a lot.
Give it a rest.
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I would like for him to stick around but I'm afraid that ship has sailed. 0-11? Can't really see him being around next year.
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For someone who doesn't want Hue fired, you sure talk about him being fired a lot.
Give it a rest. You should know...you started it.
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I would like for him to stick around but I'm afraid that ship has sailed. 0-11? Can't really see him being around next year. We know what you believe. You have said it hundreds of times. Fire Hue, Fire Hue. Fire Hue. Good God........give it a rest.
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We know what you believe. Hue is innocent. Hue is innocent. Hue is innocent. Good God.....give it a rest.
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I talk about other things all the time.
Your "mission" is beyond old.
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J/C
Insight into the woes on O, Jackson in his pressers was asked about only getting one play off in 20 seconds prior to the FG v Bengals where other teams in the league would get multiple plays off:
"We're not equipped that way"
Tweeted by Keith Britton, Daryl Ruiter.....a few others
Thought the statement was very interesting in a number of ways, mostly as Hue is now publicly saying, "hey, I'm working with crap here". There are several ways to interpret the meaning behind that. Sure would like to know exactly what he meant...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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J/C
Insight into the woes on O, Jackson in his pressers was asked about only getting one play off in 20 seconds prior to the FG v Bengals where other teams in the league would get multiple plays off:
"We're not equipped that way"
Tweeted by Keith Britton, Daryl Ruiter.....a few others
Thought the statement was very interesting in a number of ways, mostly as Hue is now publicly saying, "hey, I'm working with crap here". I have no idea why Hue would say something like that. Good god, man.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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J/C
Insight into the woes on O, Jackson in his pressers was asked about only getting one play off in 20 seconds prior to the FG v Bengals where other teams in the league would get multiple plays off:
"We're not equipped that way"
Tweeted by Keith Britton, Daryl Ruiter.....a few others
Thought the statement was very interesting in a number of ways, mostly as Hue is now publicly saying, "hey, I'm working with crap here". On another team, the QB drives the speed with which this can happen. Here, I think maybe Kizer is still being spoon-fed.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Agreed. Not sure why [well, I'm pretty sure] some are making a deal out of what he said. It's not that hard to figure out. We have an inexperienced qb who didn't even have a snap count in college. He literally barked out one word. We also have inexperienced receivers and TEs.
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J/C
Insight into the woes on O, Jackson in his pressers was asked about only getting one play off in 20 seconds prior to the FG v Bengals where other teams in the league would get multiple plays off:
"We're not equipped that way"
Tweeted by Keith Britton, Daryl Ruiter.....a few others
Thought the statement was very interesting in a number of ways, mostly as Hue is now publicly saying, "hey, I'm working with crap here". On another team, the QB drives the speed with which this can happen. Here, I think maybe Kizer is still being spoon-fed. That is a possibility, but it would mean that we are unable to execute a 2 minute drill...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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