DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon Reinstated Part II

I would not be surprised. Because 4 to 6 is the same as one. Btw............you are part of that group I was referring to, and your moderation of the board is indicative of what goes on here.

Yep, Vers should have been long gone by now.

Shame on you!

okay.

My greatest hope if that Gordon comes back and plays well ..... so we can trade him for value this coming off-season.

I want off this particular roller-coaster. I want players we can count on. That's not Gordon.

Greg Little isn't that horrible person that he'd jeopardize his friend's sobriety. Especially, when you consider that Greg Little is living with him and driving his Maserati to RiseNation while Josh is at practice. Even if you assume Greg Little is a horrible person, he cannot be that horrible to himself.

Also, Greg Little has been training with Josh to get back into the NFL (please don't laugh, even though we all know it's funny). It's a possibility that Greg Little found out how bad alcohol (7 calories per gram of alcohol is a lot when calorie counting) and smoking is for his (And anyone's) NFL training and is also staying sober. It's a possibility, all I'm saying.

Then you order the food to go and eat it at home. You send somebody else in the bar to pick up the food, you have the food delivered. You cook your own damn meals, but you don't (three weeks out of rehab) hang out with buddies who are drinking, or hang out in a bar.

That's like being a crack addict and hanging out in crack houses

Just trying to catch up.

What do I know:
Out until 11 with Greg Little.
I haven't looked closely but I haven't come across anything else definitive.

What I would like to know:
The establishment
Was he seen with a drink?
Was anyong he was with seen with a drink?
How late did he actually stay? Big difference b/t arriving and leaving at 11.

This kid had the world by the nards.
No doubt with discipline and some sort of work ethic he was HOF material. My dad used to tell me that the decisions I make will turn around and and make me. JG seems incapable of making any good decisions.

Good luck kid...

Here's the funny thing. You have been right about Gordon, every, single, time! And each time you got the same reaction from some posters. Heck, I was one of them at the beginning. Yet time after time I was proven wrong and you were right about JG. I wanted to think and hope for the best with him. I convinced myself of that. Yet time after time he let this team down.

I have a brother who hasn't drank in many years now. He went through AA and the twelve step program. He bought into the program big time and and talked about it with me many times. JG shouldn't be in places that serve alcohol. He shouldn't be hanging out with people while they are drinking. This is all part of the program.

I don't know how many times you'll have to be right and they'll have to be wrong before they learn their lesson, but I've learned mine. All you've really said is that he put himself in a bad situation and he did.

People say they believe he's maturing. Well, if he really is, he wouldn't be putting himself in an establishment serving alcohol at 11:00 P.M.

Sober People and Sober Places, Yes.
Especially early in sobriety, yes.
Even with those two things in mind, your statement is a load of crap. Completely.

There is absolutely no issue at all with going out to eat at a restaurant. It's called not hiding from life and it is part of living a normal and sober life. I'm sober, a member of AA, and I live the 12 Steps... and I regularly go to The Winking Lizard for dinner after the gym - pretty much every other Monday evening, in fact (will likely be there tonight close to just before 9pm). We go in and usually sit in a booth, away from the bar, and eat a normal meal just like any other normal person. The people with me usually have a beer, I have a ginger beer and a water. It's just dinner, and time of day means nothing.

Everyone that is being down on him - and with history on your side, no doubt - is doing so from a position of just not having a clue on top of not having ANY information. You've judged a person's current actions based solely on past history and a deliberately-vague-as-Hell report on their location - without even actually knowing their location, mind you. You've bought hook, line, & sinker into chum thrown into the water by Mary Kay and despite the fact that there is NOTHING there to condemn him for, you are framing things in your head in a way to condemn him.

You say that he put himself in a bad situation, yet you don't even have any idea whatsoever what the situation was. Did he even go into this establishment? How long was he there? Did he place an order for dinner with the Hostess and take it to go?

You have no idea on any of that, at all.... yet, you state that he put himself in a bad situation.

Look - if he screws up again, by all means, have at it and fry him. Roast him publicly. I know I will let him have it; and I also know that should he get sober again after that, I will support him again - just as I would any person that steps into the same sober rooms as myself. However, don't tear down the man for doing nothing wrong just because you want to be able to claim you're right. That's disingenuous, dishonest, and just downright wrong on all levels.

And you've been sober for a very long time. Apples to oranges.

I think the point is that you are judging entirely on hearsay. There is absolutely nothing of substance in the report. Also - while the 12 step AA program has been mentioned a couple times, is that what JG is on? Does every man and his brother get to condemn JG if he doesn't follow the steps laid out in a program he's not following?

I said earlier it's a red flag. It's something that might be a concern based on previous patterns. But that's it. No more - no less.

I think you entirely missed my point.

I'm not saying he drank at all. I'm saying that this early in sobriety you don't put yourself in a situation to be in an establishment serving alcohol. It's neither the smart thing to do nor does it shown good judgement. Do date, those two things, not being smart and not showing good judgement have been his downfall. That doesn't mean he's going to fail.

But people who have worked the twelve step program know that this early in your sobriety, putting yourself in that situation isn't smart.

I used to be a Major first class in the barfly army. (as you may recall Pit).

Me personally, I'm very confidant that being in a bar has no bearing on my desire to not drink.

Heck, from 2010 until this year, I was at every Southern New England Browns Backers game with old buddies who still drink. And sometimes 50 other people mostly drinking.

Doesn't bother me in the least.

I can attribute it to two mental things:

1) About 1/3 of all U.S. adults don't drink. I'm one of them now.
2) When I did drink, my SNEBB buddies were drinking wusses. Maybe two pitchers and a shot or two during the game. I had double that before kick-off.

They still only drink a couple pitchers. Not as many shots (they generally reserved shots for Browns wins and holidays)

Bunch of drink wusses.

As I said, I'm not saying he is going to fail. We both used to drink heavily. And when I say heavily, I do mean heavily. lol

I haven't drank in years. But in my case, I just decided it was something I didn't want to do anymore. It was a personal choice. I didn't need rehab or a program. I consider myself very lucky in that regard. No it's not like I swore off drinking. I had a couple of beers with GM a few years ago while he was down here. But alcohol and weed weren't things that cost me my job, or something I did to perform my job like Gordon.

People can say what they like, but the chance of being suspended didn't stop Gordon. The chance of losing his career didn't stop Gordon. The chance of losing millions of dollars didn't stop Gordon.

Heck, I smoked weed since I was a teenager and quit cold turkey for a great job with great benefits and it wasn't even close to 1/10 of what Gordon makes. I was in my 40's then.

So yeah, I'd say there's a big difference there.

So you do know more than everyone else? Please share the details.

Well maybe you want to ask someone who has worked the program. My brother told me that and purp said the exact same thing above. Both of those people have been in the program. They both said that this isn't smart in the early part of your sobriety.

Sometimes it's not the smartest thing to do to ignore what people who have actually been in the program have to say when I'm simply passing on the things they say.

Or do you know more than they do? Please share the details.

And, yet, like most things in life, nothing is black-and-white (except discussions on DawgTalkers).

While I do agree that it is generally not a good idea, that is painting with the absolute broadest of brushes. I'll also state that I don't believe Gordon is so new in sobriety that it is something he needs to be overtly paranoid or worried about (despite how fresh his track record is in our minds). Reading and inferring from most of what I've seen, he has well over a year clean at this point. His failure to be reinstated in the spring was due to not showing up to some meetings or something. The recent stint in rehab was about satisfying Goodell and making a good P.R. move before releasing his video and applying for reinstatement. Provided that there are no missteps going back to last year when he almost came back, this means that he has at least 14 months - that is still new compared to myself and a few others on here, but it puts him at a point in his growth where he can stop sheltering and start re-learning how to live life, which is what the 12-step program is all about.

Beyond that, I'll state that it depends not only on how long you've been sober (we'll save discussions on quality of sobriety for later so as not to muddle things), but what the place is, why you are there, and what you did.

If it is a place that is "more bar than restaurant" and he was there hanging near the bar to carouse and live the nightlife - then I'm eminently concerned.
If it is the same exact place, time, and people, but he sits in a booth away from the bar and has dinner, I have absolutely not one thing to feel any concern about... and that applies whether he has one year or one month sober.

That distinction right there is why I dismiss this entire report as being utter garbage - because Mary Kay transparently and deliberately danced around and omitted ALL of those details and distinctions so as to be able to lead the reader by the nose to the very concerns you & Vers are trumpeting; blowing smoke where there is no fire.
Unless, and until, someone comes forth stating clearly & unequivocally that he was doing something to be worried about, I do not see anything to be worried about.

I believe common sense would dictate you keep yourself removed from being anywhere that has could lead to negative results. I don't want to wait until we get to the point of having to hear "unequivocally that he was doing something to be worried about". By that time, it's probably a little too late for the Browns and his NFL career.

Maybe I'm just too old school. I still believe in the saying that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Your approach would mean that anyone in recovery should remain forever locked up in their house or church basements, lol

Life doesn't happen like that.... we don't get sober to hide from life, nor people, places, or things.



Staying out of bars (the ones that serve as well as the ones we might end up behind, lol) is good enough.... there is nothing wrong with going to a restaurant. For anyone.





The prevention doesn't happen in the streets; it happens in meetings and between the ears.

In the end, he is either doing the things he needs to do to be right between the ears with all of this or he isn't -- that determines EVERYTHING.
If he is doing those things, it doesn't matter where he goes.
If he isn't doing those things, it doesn't matter what places or people he avoids.

Not really. I mean I guess if you believe everyone is a high profile NFL player/celebrity with a long track record of substance issues and their career on the line, maybe. But that's not the case.

I've never had a multi million dollar career to base my personal decisions on. I've never had the publicity under the microscope and a long history of blowing opportunity after opportunity that had been afforded me. I've never had the fan bases of top colleges and an NFL teams depending on me making the most of my abilities to help their team.

Now if I did, I believe with all confidence I would be doing everything in my power to leave the best impression possible. That I wouldn't go into public places that served alcohol. At least for a while to show everyone my sincerity.

So I guess I just think there should be some people around him to continue to point out that his actions aren't in a vacuum. That he's under heavy scrutiny brought about by none other than himself.

I don't believe anyone should hide from life or things. But you also don't need to go somewhere that serves alcohol to have dinner.

by that logic, he can't even go to Applebee's, because they serve alcohol.

If you don't want to eat fast food you pretty much do.

Well he ain't missing much! lmao

don't hate. their quesadilla appetizers are on point.

Heh, your last sentence was already addressed; it's just a realistic fact of life that if you are going to have a sit-down meal, you are going to be somewhere that serves. That's Life.

The rest of it: not one thing in all of that is anything that Josh should worry about or think about, in any way, ever. None of it. Nowhere in ANY of his thoughts should be "Oh, I can't go there, somebody might talk on a message board". That would be insane. Literally insane. None of that contributes to sobriety or a good way of living.

He needs to just live, keep it simple, and do the next Right thing.

Heck, take it a step further: No grocery stores, or even gas stations, as they sell (not "serve" I know) but they sell alcohol.

Stay the hell out of them! Right?

I am certain those folks know the system - and I have no doubt it works for those committed to being sober and clean (and that doesn't mean that I don't think JG is) .... and I am not questioning the validity or the concept or that it would be unwise to place JG in environments that could be tempting for him to stray from his path of sobriety.

I simply mean - we don't know. We don't know if he was there for a takeout order. We don't know if he was there for 60 seconds or 3 hours. We don't know if he sat in a private room away from anything and everyone - and if Greg Little drank or didn't drink. We know virtually nothing. So to say that we know he put himself in an unwise situation is to make assumptions.... unless you know something we don't... hence the 'share' comment that was served back at me.

Having said all that - personally there is only one path to JG being clean and fulfilling his football potential, be it for the Browns or another team .... His own commitment. If he decides he can 'cheat' and drink a little or smoke a little - or whatever it is ... personally I think he is JUST as likely or even more likely to stray and do that cloistered away in his own house or at a friends - than he is because he ate a meal out at a restaurant.

IMO, your last paragraph was spot on!

Josh, as dumb as he might be, knows full well what the result will be of another "positive" test.

He'll be done playing football. He'll be done making millions of dollars.

And, he also knows he's rather well known. He's not gonna go out to eat, in public, when everyone has a cell phone and camera, and drink in public and get away with it.

He also gets, or CAN get tested for drugs or alcohol I believe up to 4 times a week. (seems to me I read that somewhere)

AND, under his return conditions (and even before) he agreed to that - and it's not a "Hey, Josh, this is the nfl calling you on Monday. We're going to test you for alcohol on Saturday" kind of thing.

My understanding of the testing is "Hey, we're going to test you today. You have 2 hours to report. If you don't show up, it's a positive."

Jackson excited about Gordon's return: I get to open a new toy

https://sports.yahoo.com/jackson-excited-gordon-apos-return-004700819.html

Josh Gordon worked with Cleveland Browns quarterbacks for the first time since his conditional reinstatement to the league, and no-one seems more thrilled than Hue Jackson.

The Browns coach said Monday having Gordon back after a lengthy suspension was "like Christmas".

"I get to open a new toy," Jackson told reporters. "I know what is in that box, but I just want to see how good it is. It is exciting that he will be back out there."

Gordon was reinstated November 1 after spending 53 of the Browns' last 58 games suspended due to multiple violations of the NFL's substance abuse policy.

He is expected to practice fully this week, and could be activated as early as November 27. If that is the case, then Gordon would be able to play in the Browns' December 3 game against the Los Angeles Chargers.

Gordon has not played in a game since December 2014. He recently admitted that he was normally under the influence of alcohol or drugs for nearly every game of his career.

Even with the repeated violations and lack of presence on the field, Jackson said he has full faith in the 26-year-old Gordon.

"This is what Josh knows, that we're always available to him," Jackson said.

"But I think he's entitled to be a man and make his decisions and do the right thing. We truly believe and support that he will.

"He's done everything that we've asked him to do thus far. He's working extremely hard.

"He's excited about being back, about having the opportunity. He was on our sideline yesterday and it was a treat. Just dialoguing with him, the things he saw, the ways he thinks he can help. To me, that was exciting."

I'm excited to read about reports from practice on how he looks and whether or not Kizer and he can get any timing down, and how quickly.

Josh Gordon Flashes In Return To Practice Wednesday
November 22, 2017 2:36 PM By Daryl Ruiter | 92.3 The Fan

BEREA (92.3 The Fan) – It had been 448 days since Josh Gordon was seen on a practice field in Berea but his presence Wednesday was impossible to miss.

It took less than 20 minutes for Gordon, who practiced for the first time since Aug. 31, 2016, to look like the best receiver on the field.

“The guy is ultimate talent,” quarterback DeShone Kizer said. “We all know it. It is time for him to step in and play his role on this team.”

Gordon, now 26, moved effortlessly as he ran routes, even one time he had to slow up to catch a ball on a double move deep route. His only hiccup during the portion of practice open to reporters came when he slipped during a route.

Gordon was conditionally reinstated by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Nov. 1.

Gordon has been suspended for the last 43 regular season games and 53 of the past 58 because of multiple violations of the NFL’s policy on substances of abuse.

Gordon returned to the Browns on Nov. 7 and he is eligible to be activated next Monday and play Sunday, Dec. 3 at Los Angeles against the Chargers.

“He is a heck of a player, and I’m looking forward to when he is back out there for us,” Kizer said. “For now, Josh unfortunately isn’t able to play with us this week. My only priority right now is winning this week. Once he gets back out there, I look forward to watching him play well again.”

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/11/22...Ovc2vPw.twitter

Pretty much says it all right there.

Ehh, I'm still counting down to his next mistake. I'd like to feel and think he's real this time, but said that before and when a doofus is at stake, you never gamble on them. Gordon is a doofus.

do you ever stop beating a dead horses?

I've been to several Browns training camps over the years dating all the way back to the mid-80s.

Gordon is the best football player I've ever seen in that setting.

Sounds like today was more of the same.

Good sign.

At the end of the day when it comes to Josh you just have to forgive him and hope the best for him. Even if your angry because he has screwed up his life and to a certain degree our Browns too. The one who has suffered the most is Josh. He has to live with the choices he made and the burdens of his addictions.

When I see a young man who has made some very bad choices but is trying to get better and make better choices in the future. I can root for that. I can hope that for his sake he recovers. I want Josh to recover and make something of himself not because of my love of the Browns but because I see a young man struggling with his demons. He hasn't given up yet and he is fighting them.

I have no patience or sympathy for cowards who give up on life. He hasn't given up and he is fighting it. Anyone who is struggling to make themselves into a better person and live a better life deserves nurturing and support in my humble opinion. There are so many more that just give up on life so I prefer to celebrate those that accept their failures and get back up to keep on trying.

I hope Josh succeeds as a human being far more than as our WR because a human life is far more important than a game or our amusement. I really hope he does well.