DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dropped Passes

Guys..........can we debate all that other stuff on other threads? There are plenty of them. I started this thread because there has been quite a bit of debate on how many dropped passes we have had.

I'm not demanding anything and not trying to be a jerk.........but, can we please chart the drops on this thread?

I wasn't tracking dropped passes but I recall two today. Coleman and Louis.

At this point, it is an expectation that Louis will not catch the ball. The fact that he is still on this team is a travesty. He should be benched at a minimum and cut if it were me.

Coleman is just an average player with average hands. It's a shame the Browns wasted a number one pick on that guy. He's also not a consistent catch guy. I'm not surprised he dropped the TD pass.

This thread concept was started because someone from ESPN (Cian Farhey?) had tracked Kizer's season and counted 30 drops for like 358 yards over the first nine games - not including any YAC, just where the ball was dropped. That was 3.3 drops per game.

That seemed unbelievable, but we're all tracking around 3 drops over each of the last two games, so it is certainly looking to be a fair assessment. Assuming those 36 drops stand, that is 11.5% of all passes that Kizer has thrown this season.

We're looking at quite a few first downs, several hundred yards of offense and multiple scoring opportunities that poor hands have cost us.

As for the interceptions, there have been four in which the receiver got both hands on the ball before it deflected to a defender. Some say they were thrown behind, or too hard, or too far ahead, but that's four with both hands on the ball - I think anyone is reaching to say any deserve to end up an interception.

I think, even more important, has been the inability to generate big plays or generate great separation. Most quarterbacks get an assist every now and again - a screen pass taken to the house, some great YAC on a short route. Kizer hasn't got a whole lot of that either.

I think it's fair to say no other quarterback's season has been as negatively influenced by his surrounding talent as Kizer's has been.

I started this thread and I know why I started it.

While what you said was a consideration, the main reason I started it was because I thought that some of our receivers had way more drops than they were credited for by certain sites.

Thus, the bottom line was that I wanted a more objective representation of our drops as opposed to the subjective representations that are fueled by agendas.

I was hoping we could keep it real.

Higgins.

There was a drop in the1st half ...

Cal said it was Higgins .. im sure it was ... i’ll go confirm it at some point ...

Thanks guys. I can't remember it, but I trust you both.

Just trying to keep this real w/out all the agenda crap.

The thing is that it probably isn't the hands. I am sure they can catch those all day long.

It's the eyes. I am not sure our receivers know how to run without bobbing their heads.

Keep it real....so posters are going to give VALID drops vs other sites.....WOW.... JMHO, that's like asking all of us which news articles are fake news.....MAYBE I'd trust an ESPN retired receiver to count them. We pay the coaches to put our best receivers out there every game- I don't think they are putting the worst out on purpose......GO Browns!!!

Where the sun don't shine....JMHO, our talent level hasn't been high enough...I've read- no separation, bad hands, heads bobbing, wrong cleats, wrong gloves, wrong shoes, scratches on their face plates, not enough stickem, too sunny, snow, can't fight off line of scrimmage....on and on and on....JMHO, when JG gets on field, our other receivers will magically get a little better.....a real threat helps....GO Browns!!!

The original point of this thread was a good one. Not just this year, but since I started watching football and reading this board, drop counts are super subjective and are all over the place depending on where you pull that piece of data.

This year, for some reason, the drops really stand out for the Browns. I say "for some reason" because the Browns FO's have always seemed to have these love affairs with receivers that can't catch. This year really isn't some anomaly where we have receivers putting balls on the ground.

There was the article about how much yardage the offense has missed out on solely due to drops. The yardage total is eye-opening, but again, I would hypothesize that it's not some astronomical increase from previous years.

Additionally, I don't think this thread was intended to be used to prop up Kizer's performance. I think tracking/discussing drops from our WRs can stand on its own as a topic without turning it into the latest QB thread.

Just my .02

Since the usual posters felt the need to destroy the intent of this thread (not U) because they felt the need to talk about the same exact things there discussing on 8 other threads I may as well add this ...

I’m pretty sure that JG’s presence on the field WON’T

- turn Loius’s hands soft from the stones they currently are .. (this dude should have NEVER been drafted ... and it scared me ... it showed me they cared more about ATHELETIC WR’s than ones that could actually CATCH THE BALL) ...

- make Britt care ... although he has played well the last 2 or 3 games ... the towel over the head thing last week ... WTF was that ... Cinci ain’t far away ... MAYBE THE WALK HOME WOULD HAVE HELPED TO CLEAR HIS HEAD ....

- make Higgins consistent

- make treggs taller and faster ...

Colemans the only WR we have right now JG’s presence can help ....

It may help Louis be more wide open when he drops the ball ...

Just my .02 cents, I've seen lots of dropped passes this year also.....but asking FANS, POSTERS to tally up drops- IMHO is ABSURD. Completely speculative. We all want someone with "good hands", who can get speration, save the day.....hope Gordon knows the plays, cuz he's going to get his chance......GO Browns!!!!

Thanks.

I started this thread because we discussing how drops in other threads, especially the discrepancy on the numbers of drops.

I believe it was Diam who suggested we start a thread to keep track of the drops. He couldn't post right away because he had some other stuff to do before he watched the game, so I volunteered to start the thread.

I think we were hoping that we just stick to the drops and not the typical agenda crap. I thought it might be interesting to see how we all compared what is a drop and what is not a drop. I also thought we might come up w/some sort of a consensus...not perfect, but at least a better understanding.

I think the thread started off okay, but has been derailed. I do wish we could just talk about how many drops did each poster [who chooses to reply] witnessed in a game. I don't see what the harm is in doing that.

Agree 100 percent- Coleman should be helped lots. Why we haven't used Johnson more in slot annoys me. Good hands, shifty, etc....but I'm just a fan.....GO Browns!!!!

LOL........as if there aren't enough threads discussing how dumb Hue is.

This thread is about "Dropped Passes."

Fox Sports/ NBC Sports both report Louis has 5 to lead Browns, Coleman has 3....lots with 2- Kizer has sucked, but he's had plenty of help. AND off topic how's our KICKER...he sucks....GO Browns!!!!

j/c

I think the bigger issue is how many more drops do our WR's have compared to other teams. I mean drops are a fine excuse for our lack of production on O, but every QB in the league faces drops by their WR's. If ours are significantly more, then fine.

But I would be willing that the difference in drops between our team and others isn't as wide of a margin as some make it out to be.

I think the difference in the Browns drops vs another teams say the Steelers is night and day.
This offense isn't mentality strong enough to over come drops. The margin of error is almost zero
If Kenny Britt or Coleman drop a pass it creates this huge cloud albatross over the offense
If Antonio Brown or Justin Hunter drop a ball no biggie cause they have
Players that can step up.the next play and move the chains
The Brown simply lack players on offense that can overcome negatives and move on to the next play
When DeShone Kizer throws a catchable ball and it's dropped trust me plays with his psyche

PFF has Louis at a staggering 21.21% of catchable passes dropped, which is the worst in the league. Damn shame, he's such a talented kid but he can't seem to get them to stick.

Louis isn't that good. He was the number 1 wr in a run dominated offense at Auburn
His route tree was limited at Auburn
He lacks the ability to set up cb.
He's not a physical wr
He can't high point the ball
But hey he's a draft pick of Sashi he's bound to be great
Right ???

None of those are reasons he isn't even average.

He sucks because he can't catch.

Yep, they drafted a bunch of mid round WR's in a poor WR draft class in a group. A bunch of sub par talent that have actually been starters at times. There's nothing about that which screams smart.

One could even go as far as to say .... ILLOGICAL ... or dare i be non PC and say STUPID!!!

Here are the numbers:

NFL Team Passes Dropped

Drafting a wr that cant catch ANYWHERE is STUPID ... your trying to justify drafting a wr with horrible hands cause we did it in the mid rounds ... ok ...

And lets hope this year they take one if not the weakest positions in the draft and spend a bunch of mid round picks on it .... sounds like a pretty damm good plan to me ... VERY LOGICAL now that im being realistic ...

Don't forget that we also took Njoku who had a history of having bad hands.

But, some peeps [hi CHS] want to try and act like we don't look at Sparq scores.

I still like the selection. He has a size/speed blend that is exciting.

Like you mentioned, he came from a rushing team not known for developing receivers. He also was a high school quarterback, so he never really developed.

In the 3rd round, I'm okay with rolling the dice on a guy with a first round skill set. Especially with Al Saunders as our WR coach - if anyone can get something out of a receiver, it's him. Looking at how raw he was, it was exciting to wonder what happened if his development was effective.

Unfortunately, Louis hasn't shown much. His route running has improved, but he's not playing physical and his hands are terrible.

It is what it is. Sashi selecting him doesn't make him a great pick by default. We knew this was a risk from day one. Sadly, it appears it hasn't worked. I'm fine with a middle-round upside selection, however.

Somehow other NFL teams can find WRS that can make plays in any RD.
The Browns have the porous track record of drafting WR in the last 12 years in the NFL
No matter the regime
Maybe the Bears Ravens are equally bad
But Sashi really drafted a bunch of bums in 2016

Sad part is that pales in comparision to our history of drafting and signing FA QB’s ... *L* ...

Another reason why STATS ARE FOR ...

It seems Iike it would be STATISTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to be this inept at it for so long ..

I don't think the.Browns are in position. To draft players that are raw.teams like the Steelers Pats can draft players like a Louis who have potential upside
But when you are a franchise that loses 12 games every year you need players that can play sooner than later
Thats a issue with the Browns drafting too many guys that you wait 2 4 years to develop and they never do.
Louis is what he is. A fast WR who lacks the ability to feel DBS and can't fundamentaily
Catch a football
Funny how the Browns have 2 WRs from Auburn
Who can't make plays on the field

Apologies, I screwed up and wrote 3rd round pick. Louis was a 4th round pick.

I disagree. I hate the idea that other teams get the luxury of taking risks but we should restrict ourselves to short-sighted selections based only on immediate returns at the expense of limited upside. I understand where you're coming from, but those boom/bust selections are what can take a franchise out of the basement very quickly.

In the 4th round, you're not going to get high upside players with immediate starting potential.

To each his own, however. I can see where you're coming from, but I don't mind rolling the dice on players with high upside.

does anyone who is proclaiming the wide receiver picks “stupid picks” know where these guys were on our draft board? were they bpa at the slot they were selected?? were there far superior talents at other positions that we passed on to take these guys? without knowing the answers to those questions I could not say definitively that they were “stupid picks”.

What percentage of non first/second rnd picks start in NFL....if you miss like us on our top picks...troubles. Our later rd picks at WR were NOT sure things- hoping and praying we found a gem....so far didn't happen.....GO Browns!!!!

J/C

I think someone posted the % numbers of successful picks per round and after round 2, or maybe 3, it falls off the map. I'd prefer taking flyers on high ceiling guys there - if they were high ceiling, low risk, they'd be gone anyway.

Schobert and Kindred has panned out as outstanding picks in the 4th and 5th respectively. Maybe just Higgins becomes a viable 4th or 5th WR. It's a decent return from that draft in the latter rounds.

I have also read the success rate on receivers is especially poor, even in the 1st round - was posted on here a wee while back. In the same way as QBs - are WRs harder to project because they haven't been exposed to pro concepts (snaps from under center for QBs, route trees, feeling soft spots in zone, etc) in college? I'm not defending or otherwise the FO by the way. Just trying to be objective. Don't want to get dragged into that particular (or any other) bunfight

The only thing I can say about this is that that draft year was on the weaker side in terms of WR prospects.

They scraped the bottom of the barrel hard in that draft. Wrong year to do something like that.

I've been saying this since that draft happened. It was easy to see.