DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns 2017 Statistical Expectations Offense and Defense

According to you, I am both "clueless" and "foolish."

However, it was YOU who said that Rosen was more like Manziel than Mayfield is.

I am asking you to prove that!

Your name calling does not change the fact that your claim was irresponsible and preposterous.

I retracted the clueless.


If you give proof that Mayfield is the next Manziel, I'll proove Rosen is more like Johnny than Mayfield. Sound fair?

I think you already listed Rosen's concerns and I listed most, but not all, of Mayfield's concerns.

Look man........it isn't close.

Neither one might not end up to being close to Manziel, but to say Rosen is closer to Manziel than Mayfield is irresponsible.

Just let it go.

Rosen has a lot of concerns surrounding his name.

One AFC scouting exec and one AFC Exec say he's a mess off the field with tons of issues. Relating to dedication and immaturity. Apparently his coaches ask him if he wants to be Manning or Manziel, and Rosen has always maintained a defiant attitude, saying that he, "don't want to be a crystal-clean guy" and, "won't pretend to be 50." The big question is that Rosen comes from an extremely affluent family and is your stock standard entitled rich kid.

Colin Cowherd said that Rosen once told him that Rosen was a tennis player but, "Then I started playing football and realized I'm pretty good at this." NFL quarterbacks, the best ones, work 40+ hours a week on study. Manziel LOVED throwing touchdowns on Saturday and Sunday, but didn't love the work that goes in through the week. There are questions if Rosen is the same guy. He's not as reckless as Manziel with the nonsense, but at the end of the day, Johnny's vices were secondary to the fact he just didn't love the regiment that an NFL quarterback requires.

Mayfield is cocky. He's ultra competitive and he won't shy away from some heated situations. Personally, I love that. Kansas, for example, refused to shake hands, talked a whole lot of noise and nailed him in several late hits - he still beat them and let them know. Personally, I would be more embarrassed to coach them than to coach Mayfield. That is a bigger issue with his love of football. Baker loves the game to death. He's fought tooth and nail to be where he is off the back of that love. He's not naturally gifted like Rosen, it's his dedication and desire that have got him this far.

As for his arrest, I somewhat understand where he was coming from. He's had to earn his way, and feeling like public intoxication could ruin that, he did something silly. It's a one time thing. Not a great look, but I won't pretend I didn't have a public intoxication arrest at his age - except I decided a public mail box was my throne and my pants were a fitting crown. It is something to consider, but it isn't a deal breaker for me. I felt his response to the situation was genuine. The kid was in tears, and remained in tears while calling his parents. It didn't feel like a guy doing whatever he wanted the way Manziel did.

Personally, I am more worried about Rosen than I am Mayfield.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/05/04/nfl-sco...-off-the-field/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVRr8JncEg0

It's also pretty irresponsible to think Mayfield is the next Manziel.

I could have sworn that I replied to a post you made where you said Rosen was more like Manziel than Mayfield was? Is that false? What's next, device? Are you going to call me a liar like guys like Memphis and Devil have?

Dude? You are placing more importance on rumors and speculation than facts?

This place is soooooooo freaking nuts!

That's not a rumour. That's two NFL sources outright stating that Rosen has legitimate character issues that relate to his dedication to football, and a media personality outright stating that Rosen told him he only plays football because he's good at it.

Trying to pretend there isn't questions over the heads of both players is futile. It's a fact that both guys have questions they need to answer before any team will feel comfortable with them.

However, I'm way more worried about someone being disinterested in football than I am someone grabbing his junk on TV and being arrested for something as minor as public intoxication.

We all have our opinions. I will be polite and leave it at that.

So you're calling my claim preposterous but you think a one time event constitutes a pattern? That's preposterous!

A one time even? What are you talking about? I brought up several infractions.

Dude, you are wrong. You won't admit it. I get that. Have a nice night.

Vers I don't know if Rosen has character issues or not but if he does I think we should avoid him. Any player who has character or injury issues should not be drafted by us IMO. We've had too many problems with these type of players in the past. For the betterment of our Browns, we need to hit on those 5 high draft picks in 2018. JMO

I've only seen him being arrested once. Where are these other infractions?

I might be wrong, but there's no evidence that I am. I guess we'll find out soon enough and hopefully it isn't the Steelers who draft him after we pass on him because we'll probably regret passing on him for the next 15 years.

Oh God I'd laugh my ass off if the Steelers were dumb enough to draft Johnny Mayfield as Big Ben's replacement. Alas, that franchise isn't that dumb....so they won't.

I mean I'd take Chicken Legs Jackson over Johnny Mayfield for crying out loud!

You ain't kidding. Swish goes on IGNORANCE. I mean IGNORE right now.

I swear these guys that like a Jackson type QB just get off watching these high flying dudes running all over the field on Saturdays. And I'd bet these guys are all YOUNG. As in their teens or 20's.

I think with Kelly being hired by UCLA yesterday, it's about a sure thing Rosen comes out. He'd be making a HUGE mistake staying and going from a Pro Style to that run around spread.

Jackson is a TWIG Mayfield is a SHORT PUNK and comes from yet another one of those pathetic offenses that teach a QB NOTHING.

I'm with GRAFF. Fax the card in the day the season ends with ROSEN'S name on it. Maybe we should MAIL it instead? Lmao.

Homes, I think people are going overboard on Rosen's character issues. Mayfield is the one w/documented character issues.

You didn't sleep well last night?

Why do u ask? ... was he making too much sense? Thats all i can figure ..

I haven’t started watching the film yet ... but u dont really need to watch film to know that Jackson is going to SNAP LIKE A TWIG in the NFL ...

His frame is so “slight” its INEVITABLE ... he’s obviously a GREAT ATHELETE and can “avoid” the hits in college .. not gonna be the case in the NFL ...

Now he’s the best athelete on the field more than likely every week ... and its not real close ... most of them he is light years ahead of athelitacally ... that won’t be the case in the NFL ... the athelticism of the competition in the NFL is going to be much much better ..

I fear for him the first time he gets blindsided in the pocket or cant avoid it and takes a HUGE HIT when hes running ...

“Snap like a twig” Jackson .... thats not a good nick name for an NFL qb ... *L* ...

I agree. I like Jackson a few years ago and was excited about possibly getting him, but he hasn't added any bulk to his frame.

I just don't think he will stand up over time.

Diam, watch Rosen when you get a chance.

I’m gonna watch them all bro ...

I’m actually peed at myself ... i wanted to go in with no pre-conceived notions .... said I wasn’t going to read any of the qb threads in whatever forum those in and would avoid the convos in here ...

Well i had NO DISCIPLINE in this case and now have many pre-conceived notions ... *L* ..

I’m really looking forward to watching Rosen, Jackson and Allen and the dude water keeps mentioning that flies under the radar ...

Not sure how much of a pro prospect I think Jackson will be when i’m done watching him because of his build .. i do however think i am really going to enjoy watching his film ... hes sounds like hes a GREAT COLLEGE qb and is going to be enjoyable to watch ... especially after suffering through watching ND’s pathetic excuse of a QB this year ... man was that hard ...

Y’all made fun of me for wanting Watson too.

Oh well.

I'm not sure pimping Watson is a great idea if you're trying to convince people Jackson is better than Rosen.

Call me when the guy finishes a season in the NFL (same injury issues Jackson will have).

Call me when he leads a team to the playoffs, then actually wins something.

Kid looked good when he was in there, but that and $20 will buy you a Starbucks beverage. We need a heck of a lot better than that.

Call me when Rosen leads his team to a playoff birth in college and a national title.

Oops, that’s already dead.

Call me when he has a better college career than Lamar.

Oops, that’s dead too.

Watson got hurt in practice. Sucks but that’s totally different than getting hurt in a game. He already had 15 PASSING TDs before the injury, but yea somehow that makes him a running QB lmao

Honestly, the strides all of these QB prospects have made over the past two years is insane. Rosen has always been the #1 prospect, but his anticipation this year is really blowing me away. He just throws it exactly where it's needed, usually before or during the WR making his cut. Shanny and Lynch might have made a mistake trading for JG, because Rosen looks like the perfect timing based QB in quite some time. Not saying that he wouldn't be dangerous here, but with Shanny Jr, he'd be deadly.

Lamar Jackson has also really increased his skills and knowledge of the game. He doesn't rely on his running nearly as much as he did when he won the Heisman. He's able to look off corners and safeties a lot more and work within the confines of the pocket.

Baker, I honestly thought was another Manziel, in some ways I still think. However, Baker's arm strength has really improved. I thought it was Colt McCoy level by the end of last year, but now he has no problem driving the ball down the field. I'm still not sure if he can work the field, inside the pocket consistently enough to be worth a first round pick. But there is something to say about his leadership, which is head and shoulders over any of the other QBs in the class.

...

The crap you’ll make up and post to prove a point is comical ...

I’m sure there just GIDDY in Houston his injury was in practice as opposed to in a game .. i’m sure it SOFTENS THE BLOW!!!!

If u bothered to actually stop and think for a moment ... the fact it happenend in practice makes it MUCH WORSE ... if he can get hurt WHEN THEIRS NO HITTING that would make it even scarier what might happen when there is HITTING ... guess thats on me since you’ve never let LOGIC get in your way before ....

Same reason why Coleman broke his hand in practice last year and not in a game. It was a fluke injury.

I didn’t make anything up. Everything I said was the truth.

Mike McCoy, Bronco's Offensive coordinator was fired last week,(Nov. 20th 2017.) after a 6 game losing streak.

Wonder if the Browns will talk to him.

Because losing here is acceptable?

It's sad but it is accepted here.

If I was Hue/Sashi I would definitely talk to him. A proven OC like McCoy usually wouldn't want to go to place where he can't be the playcaller. But after being fired it gives the Browns the chance to hire him as OC w/o playcalling duties. Hue can delegate the during of the week coordination of the offense and focus on the team as a whole and still be the playcaller.

I'm confused as to your point?

Let's see here you're trying (in vain) to diminish a poster for being correct about a QB prediction when others were wrong?

Then you're also trying to diminish the QB he was right about, despite the fact that prior to injury Watson was well on the way to having one of the best rookie season ever...and was near the league lead in passing TD's despite playing in 1 less game?

That's some fuzzy logic there.

I stopped into this thread to update the stats and stumbled upon a quasi-qb thread.

I asked if you watched Lamar because it seems like you've already made up your mind about Mayfield? being the guy...but I never heard you mention Jackson and found it odd that someone could have found there favorite prospect without first watching all the prospects.

To all.....when it comes to looking at college QB prospects beware confirmation bias.

Stats? No offense, but I think there is way more to the evaluation process than looking at stats.

I will bring up our conversations about RGIII when you and he came here. Reading coverages post-snap is huge and I said he struggled w/it. You countered w/stats. I'll leave it at that.

Scratches head. Lol, you know good and damn well I don't evaluate with stats.

No need to conflate the quasi-QB evaluation going on here with the Original intent of this thread which I was posting about. The thread is titled: Browns 2017 Statistical Expectations Offense and Defense.
So yeah quite obviously those are the "Stats?" I'm referring to.

Your memory is funny, I hardly ever argue football with stats alone...and i'm fairly certain you know that. I know I haven't posted in awhile but c'mon. So yeah please bring up those conversations. In fact quote them. Most people in this forum really didn't want to discuss Griffin then. It might be eye opening to look back in retrospect to the last Browns QB that actually...you...know...won a game. So terrible right?

Or you could bring up conversations about how Dak was my #1 rated prospect 2 years ago or how Watson was my #1 rated QB last year.

I'm game. I can do this all day...or we could actually talk football. Your choice.

Yeah RG3 won a game for the Browns. And otherwise he mostly sucked, and probably couldn't get a job in the CFL.

You are way too sensitive for me.

You scratch your head a lot. You shrug a lot. You are confused by what people say a lot. Those come across as you thinking other people are off base. Yet, if you are questioned, you get very defensive.

Whatever ed.

You and I even talked in PMs about RGIII's ability or inability to read coverages. You site stats all the time. I think you are a good poster, but man, not sure why you freak so much if your opinions are questioned.........especially after you were questioning those of other posters.

Frankly, I think you made good points. However, I think some of the other guys made good points. It's not a one-sided thing. Grow some thicker skin, ed.

I did ... our talks consisted of basically two things ...

1. U thought RG3 was good and that Shanny ruined him and then BLACKBALLED him .. I said RG3 STUNK and Shanny made him look way better than he was ...

U said RG3 still had a shot to be special and he’d prove it here ... I didn’t agree with that either ...

2. U said RG3 was VERY ACCURATE .... I said he was VERY INNACURATE ...

U countered with completion % ... i said BS ... i said thats another example of WHY STATS ARE FOR ... i said he had guys running wide open all over the field cause of the O Shanny designed ...

I’ll leave it at that ...

I’m not a big fan of revisionist history ...

As for WHAT MATTERS NOW ...

- we need an upgrade at WR BIGTIME ...

- Kizer has played like a rookie that wasn’t ready to start ... hes been hurt by his WR’s .. he also has PLENTY OF HIIS OWN ISSUES that aren’t related to him being a rookie as their the SAME ISSUES he had at ND ...

Does he have a shot ... ABSOLUTELY ... but please don’t pretend all his problems start and end with our WR’s ...

How about we just focus on the positive game he played today and the fact hes improving ...

*LOL* ... i said he was way to sensitive for me about 5 posts in last year ...

I told him to put me on ignore ... he then proceeded to rip me a new one ... LOVED IT .. was glad he showed some back bone ...

ED ... u gonna break QB’s down for the draft again? ... i really enjoyed that and u know your stuff .... hopefully u will ....