DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer rnd. 4

I want to see a completion percentage on the year much higher than the number it is at, For Rosen. (62% his best)
I want to see a team that has much better than the 5-6 record his UCLA Bruins have.

I want the Browns to take the best player available.
I went back to see, Deshone Kizer, yep, his completion percentage on the year was down near 60%, that's worse than Rosens.

Yep, if Kizer and Rosen are the only ones in Browns camp next year, I'm going to bet Kizer is the better player; And that Mayfield would be better than both of them, somewhere else.

Saying he hasn't done anything to show he can win in the NFL is no more making stuff up than,
(based on what his college career shows)
,than saying he clearly is the guy the Browns should take hands down.

I need to stop reading your posts.

Good one. Thanks for that.

Rosen should be our guy...

Agreed. He's got six games left, and I do believe that both the front office and Hue Jackson are receptive to Kizer showing that he has genuine value moving forward.

This weekend is his first real opportunity to explicitly show growth because it will be the first time he's faced an AFC North opponent twice.

His first game against the Bengals was ugly. 16/34 for 118 yards and 1 interception. Granted, the interception was a 3rd down conversion in the red zone that bounced straight off Kenny Britt's chest, but that game was his least productive and he really struggled to get anything going all day. It was painful.

Personally, I feel like Kizer has gone through three stages this year.

First stage was being unable to protect the ball while moving the chains. Against Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Indy he was relatively productive. Those three games account for three of his four most productive yardage games, and he had 5 touchdowns, but he also threw 7 interceptions and 2 fumbles. He also held the ball, taking 10 sacks in those games.

Second stage was being unable to protect the ball and move the chains. He halved his turnovers and only took two sacks, but in the process of that caution he didn't score or generate much offense. This was against Bengals, Jets and Titans (benched).

Third stage has been the last three games. He's been more productive in terms of yards and touchdowns while his turnovers are also down - and these games came against the best defenses he's seen all season. Frustratingly, all three games (Vikings, Lions, Jags) were legitimate winning opportunities. Outside of his rough spots against Jacksonville, these last three weeks have been his best of the season, and Hue seems to feel he's showing genuine progress.

Since it's been rotating in three-game stages, hopefully he enters a new stage of his development. There would be no win sweeter for Hue Jackson than the rookie exploding on the Bengals. That'd be a nice week for his coach.

This is a winnable game, in my opinion.

Bengals have one of the better passing defenses in the NFL (Allowing an average passer rating of 80, 12 TD to 7 INTs, 58.6 complete and 200 yards per game). They are a bad rushing team, however. They allow 122 yards per game, 3.9 per carry and 6 TDs. They're down the bottom of the league. They also allow 19.9 points per game.

However, they're the worst rushing team in the league (68 yards per game, 3 yards per carry) while Andy Dalton has a pretty average year.

I'll stop underestimating our inability one day, but it'd be a great game for Kizer to step up and bring home a victory - especially when the team around him should be able to do their jobs.

But Mayfield is so much better...

Looking like he can and actually showing it are two different things. Nobody in college can show it until they're actually drafted.

Looking like he can? Uhhh yeah - go watch some UCLA film. Use your eyeballs and your brain. Dude has more QB skills than anybody we've had in Cleveland in two decades.

Put it this way. He's the Joe Thomas of this draft if our biggest hole was having the league worst LT for the last 15 years.

At what? Grabbing his crotch? Being an arrogant and immature SOB? Being a general douche? Johnny Mayfield definitely has those covered.

Sometimes I think this franchise deserves every Johnny Manziel they get. You actually want MORE of it!

I think you are one of a handful of posters who nit-pick on Hue's every move. I think you vigorously defend the FO even when their moves are questionable. I think putting all the "blame" on either Hue or the FO is unfair.

As to your claim, let's just start by you telling us which teams don't rotate their receivers.

I agree that Kizer would still stink even if he had all-pros on the outside, but don't be mistaked to think our receivers are good.

They aren't. Higgins, Louis, and Britt are pretty bad.

To your point on the innacuracy tabber ...

Hes the same guy i saw at ND for two years ... he’ll have 2 or 3 series where hes accurate as hell .. then the next series u wonder who took over his body ... *L* ...

There’s been a TON OF DROPS ... way to many ...

But like u say ... theres also been WAY TO MANY HIGH, LOW, BEHIND passes that just aren’t catchable ...

Your actually scaring me ... i trust and respect your opinions on QB’s ... your one of the best ...

I think Kizer could POSSIBLY be salvageable as far as becoming a franchise guy ... U seem to have made up your mind on him ... because I think so much of your opinion .. that scares me ...

I’ve said since before the season ... no matter what Kizer does i want to draft one with our 1st or Houstons 1st or get Cousins ... that still hasn’t changed ...

On a side note .. not directed at U ..

I’m not sure what folks expected last week .. Kizer is a rookie that wasn’t ready to start .. hes playing like a rookie that isn’t ready to start ....

Kizer played his first NON HORRIBLE game against Detroit ... who does not have a good D ... their pass rush is NON EXISTENT .... and i mean NON EXISTENT ...

Now their all having a stroke because he STUNK against Jax who actually has a very vey good D ... not sure what they expected ...

PS bro ... get ready to hear a lot of “I told U so’s” if Gordon is 75% of what he used to be ... our current receivers can make QB’s look bad IMO ...

JG can make QB’s look way better than they are ... add that to Coleman hopefully staying healthy and Kizer will look much better ... more than likely not because he improved but because the folks on here can’t tell the difference ...

The Matt Ryan comparison is pretty good. Much better than the Manziel, Lenient, Glennon comparisons. LOL

Another good thing about Rosen is that he has been playing in a pro style offense, so we know he can read defenses pre and post snap and also go through his progressions.

His OL is pretty bad. I'd like to hear more from cfrs about that because I think he's followed UCLA for years.

So it's the receivers that are making Brady and Rodgers look great?

The reason Hue doesn't use Kizer in the running game more often is because running QBs don't last in the NFL. They get injured.

I posted Kizer's draft report on this board somewhere. What was said about him in that report is proving to be true in the NFL. The fact is the Browns should never have drafted Kizer in the first place. Now they need to correct that mistake.

Look the Browns have a lot of holes to fill but it starts with the QB. The search for a franchise QB continues and it starts in the first round of the 2018 draft.

Mayfield isn't Manziel and it's ignorant to think that.

Yes! Finally.

Since you love to put words in people's mouths, I'd like to point out for the record that I never said Rosen is Manziel like many have said Mayfield is Manziel. I simply said Rosen is closer to Manziel than you think and closer to Manziel than Mayfield. I would never say Rosen is the next Manziel the way so many have erroneously crowned Mayfield the next Manziel.

But I love love love how you and others continually put words in poster's mouths.

Mayfield has only himself to blame for those comparisons.

If you're saying I'm a moderator or ref here, you're even less clever than I thought you were.

I don't know who the refs are and don't care. But there's certainly some double standards when it comes to people getting suspended on this board. It really doesn't concern me much, but it's true.

Yeah I can see the Matt Ryan comparison too. I like that.

Using your comparison - we've got the choice between:

Matt Ryan (Rosen)
Matt Leinart (Darnold) - this may be unfair but I'll go with it.
Teddy Bridgewater (Chicken Legs Jackson)
Johnny Manziel (Johnny Mayfield)

There's a reason this shouldn't be a tough decision....

What is it u don’t like about Teddy? ...

I’m not as big a fan of his as some on here ... but i like what i’ve Seeen and am very intrigued to see more ...

I’m rooting for him ... hes got some skill and everything I’ve heard is that hes a really good kid ...

Just curious as to what it is u don’t like about Teddy ...

PS. I think hes a horrible comparision for “Snap like a Twig” Jackson ... i dont see any resemblence in their games at all quite frankly ...

Zero resemblance to TB. Bad comp.

Diam. Watch as much of Rosen as you can. Including last week against USC.

Probably so. I would expect it is tied to your number of priors...

I'm guessing the comparison was about body type.

Actually not at all. I have only been suspended from this board once and it was several years ago. And it wasn't some flagrant violation as much as it was a sand box issue. lol

I’ll use that pay site ... its 2 bucks a month ... its worth a lot more than that to me ...

Ill watch every game they have on it including as many previous years games as they have ...

Last year for Mitch and the over rated one (Watson) they had all their games ... hopefully they have all Rosens from this year ...

Kizer had a decent game today. Good!

J/C

268 yards in the air and 39 on the ground. He's still not where I think he can be by the end of the season, but certainly continuing his trend of improved play over the second half of the season.

Trubisky went 17/33 for 147 yards and 2 ints. Been saying it all year - Kizer is a better quarterback than Trubisky. It's not even close, and Kizer is damn near two years younger than him on a worse team.

We can take a QB #1 next year. It is what it is. But we then need to get some weapons for Kizer because he'll need them after he wins the starting job in camp.

There’s them STATS again ... sad sad sad ...

Vers .. u like this dude as a poster ... STATS ARE HIS BIBLE ... bet he didn’t see Mitch throw a pass today yet all he needs are his STATS!!!

Just like the week Mitch went 8 - 16 ... a GREAT example of why STATS ARE FOR ...

6 or 7 of his incompletions were throw aways that game ...

Thats what happens when STATS ARE ALL U HAVE TO GO ON ...

And u know how i feel about that ...

i see you didn't comment on the 2 picks though. for constantly saying stats are for losers, you love ignoring the ones that hurt your beliefs.

dont judge a rook on his first 8, its how he finishes and Kizer is starting to show signs of being an NFL QB. A lot left to judge but I like his growth. lets see what his big arm and Gordon's speed can accomplish together.

j/c:

I thought Kizer played well today. Much better than last week. He made some very nice throws. I think he held it too long on occasion, but he showed that he has talent.

it will be interesting how he develops the last 5 games with Gordon on the field.

3 things will happen:

1. he will pull a Hoyer, and completely lose whatever mechanics he has because he has a new shiny toy to throw to (atlanta game when gordon came back).

2. No difference.

3. he starts having games where he's hitting at least 60% of his throws, looking decent and having regular 250+ yard games.

there's no telling which way it will go, but his last 3 games overall, he's looked better. let's hope having someone who defenses actually have to respect will help with his development, and save us from having to draft a QB. it would be nice to go into next season not wondering who the starting QB will be.

I'll tell you one thing I really do like about Kizer.

He's durable as hell.

I like that he's just not going to get hurt.

I like that he, if needed, can pull it down and get tough yards. Very Cam-like.

In some ways, I wish we were winning a few games and won't be in position to draft Rosen. Then you hope that Kizer improves down the stretch and will make a big leap next year. But you can't, simply can't, pass on Rosen with the #1 pick.

It would be irresponsible.

i agree with everything you said, right up until you brought up Rosen.

if Kizer continues to improve, but we end up with the #1 overall, drafting any QB(not a fan of rosen, i want lamar) just because can be defined as irresponsible.

look how trash Goff looked his first year.

now look at him this year. It's a night and day difference. and they also got him a weapon to work with, which made running the offense a hell of a lot easier. all of a sudden, you can't stack the box to stop Gurley, cause Watkins and woods are there. on top of that, they fixed the OL for Goff, and now all of a sudden they went from bottom of the division to currently sitting at the top of the division in one season.

better believe they will do the same with Trubisky in Chicago. get him some weapons, fix the line, and watch Trub look way better.

but Kizer is ALREADY looking better. but we can't just draft a QB next year just for the sake of taking him.

if we go winless and Kizer doesn't continue to get better, then im with you, draft a QB #1 overall.

but there is zero guarantee that Rosen or Lamar or Darnold (if he comes out) will even be good, and if we don't fix the lack of firepower on offense, it won't matter anyway.

Kizer needs weapons. Lets see how he looks the last 5 games with Gordon coming back.

Gordon and Coleman on the outside is good. thats gonna lead to favorable matchups for Njoku and Devalve. with Kizer constantly wanting to push the ball downfield, and our running game finally opening up the last few games, there's a chance bro.

You really can.

I saw Bucky Brooks and Dan Jeremiah recently asked five executives who they would take - Rosen, or Darnold. All said Darnold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knsgUOXTzIM

So Rosen isn't even the top QB in the class, and that's ignoring that there are a lot of people who like Mayfield or Jackson more. I know former Redskins GM Scot McCloughan has expressed that he would rather take Mayfield.

As posted in another thread, two AFC executives have said that Rosen is a "Mess" off the field with "tons of issues" relating to his dedication to football and immaturity.

http://thebiglead.com/2017/05/04/nfl-sco...-off-the-field/

Matt Miller has said, "Scouts, coaches and teammates have also told me of his personality, which can come across as "uncoachable, smarter than all of us and a [censored]."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27277...olin-kaepernick

There is also well known precedent for his coaches being unhappy with his work ethic and lack of care.

https://www.bruinsnation.com/2015/8/19/9...t-ucla-practice

Rosen also has a lengthy injury history. He's currently injured after missing most of last year with nerve damage in his throwing shoulder.

To each their own, but Rosen isn't some can't-miss elite prospect who we simply must take. Especially if the character fears on Rosen turn out to be correct. If he's not a hard worker, he'll get annihilated in competition with Deshone "he embodies what a professional is" Kizer.

Rosen has a long way to go before we can truly deem him worthy of our selection.