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I always said if I pitched a perfect game i’d Never pitch again ... if i ever got a hole in 1 i would quit and walk off the course then and their .... if i ever bowled a 300 game i’d Never bowl again ...

Originally Posted By: Ballpeen


I bow down.


I can now leave the board ... rofl




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Crow is a rotation back and he is our feature back.

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Originally Posted By: BpG
Crow is a rotation back and he is our feature back.


Crow has been a disappointment this year. I've defended him in the past but he's missed alot of running lanes this year. Leaves alot of yards on the field. I'm not talking about those times when the other team sells out for the run, blows up the OL, and stops him in the backfield. I'm talking about those two yard gains that should be 4 or 5 by simply recognizing running room that is slightly off center from the direction he's going. Seems there are 4-6 of these plays every game.

Rosen and Barkley, please.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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j/c...this year most of Crowell's runs are from Shotgun...no Down hill running everything is like a Draw play.

I think it was mentioned on TV that Crowell avg. 7+ yards when running to Joe Thomas' side.

Man we need a real QB out there!

jmho


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Duke Johnson has been Incredible on field, works hard not to be Hulk off of it



BEREA — Duke Johnson grabs the brown face mask with both hands and slams the orange helmet to the green turf, hard enough for it to recoil chest-high.

Later in the same afternoon, he catches a pass in the flat, throws a linebacker to the side, makes a nifty move to get to the sideline, lowers his shoulder into another linebacker, is stood up, resets and fights forward until finally taken down by four defenders weighing 1,061 pounds. All that for a 5-yard gain.

Two vignettes from two weeks ago in Detroit begin to tell the story of Duke Johnson the person and the running back. He’s competitive, emotional, a fighter and a playmaker.

“I try not to get like that,” he said of the helmet spike after DeShone Kizer’s failed quarterback sneak that drew an unsportsmanlike penalty and $12,154 fine. “I try not to show emotion and try not to explode in that kind of manner. But I know sometimes it happens. And I prefer it happen on the field than happen off the field.”

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The conversation last week between Johnson and The Chronicle-Telegram took place at his locker. A small, stuffed The Incredible Hulk doll is pinned behind his nameplate, and a pair of Hulk gloves hangs from it.

As a rookie, Johnson said he related to the Hulk because he can’t be stopped regardless of who’s in front of him. More than two years later he amended the story.

“The Hulk is more for anger management,” he said. “It’s not really an issue, but something I deal with. Just try to keep calm and basically the Hulk — don’t get to that point, just try to keep your cool through it all.”

Johnson (5-foot-9, 210 pounds) is one of the smaller guys on the Browns and noticeably soft-spoken in a locker room of screamers. He’s dealt with rage since he was a kid.

“For whatever reason, whatever ticked me off, whatever bothered me, I just learned now that I can’t allow it to,” he said. “Because I have a lot more to lose than I did when I was a kid.”

His dad, Randy Johnson Sr., died of ALS when Johnson was 14. A few years later he was suspended for the first three games of his senior season at Miami Northland High School after leaving the bench for a fight in the state title game the previous year. He said he’d also fight in practice.

“But I don’t really count practice,” said Johnson, whose given name is Randy.

Johnson’s mom wanted him to see someone about the anger before he went to the University of Miami but he preferred to deal with it on his own. He came up with the Hulk comparison.

“Just kinda watching the Hulk in movies and stuff and just laughing that that’s kind of how I get,” he said.

Johnson’s focus is keeping the anger in check off the field and said he’s stayed out of trouble.

“That’s my biggest thing, I don’t really care too much about (showing anger) on the field,” he said.

LITTLE GUY, BIG IMPACT

Johnson is certainly passionate about his performance and team. The catch-and-run-and-fight in the fourth quarter against the Lions was further proof.

“That sh– hurt, man,” he said. “Just football. Eventually it’s going to hurt. I just try to make plays whenever it is, no matter what time, score, make plays.”

He’s excelled this year, leading the team with 654 yards from scrimmage and sharing the lead with four touchdowns. He’s the top receiver with 46 catches for 414 yards, with two touchdowns, and has added 46 rushes for 240 yards, a 5.2 average and two scores.

“Duke is pound for pound one of the best players I have been around,” coach Hue Jackson said. “He is tough. I get disappointed because he does not get as much notoriety as some of the other guys that play the position because of our record, but he is playing extremely well for us.”

Frustrated fans hear comments like that and criticize Jackson for not using Johnson more. In the loss to the Jaguars on Sunday, Johnson caught four passes for 56 yards, including a 27-yard touchdown, and ran twice for 10 yards. He played 27 of the 55 offensive snaps. Profootballfocus.com grades him with a 42.6 percent success rate on rushes, best in the NFL. He gets a first down or touchdown 31.9 percent of the time, which ranks third.

Johnson’s dark side stays hidden here. He said he’s never argued with the coaches about playing time or touches.

“Hell no,” he said. “In that aspect I’m very good at keeping my calm. For me, that’s night and day. I don’t overstep my boundaries, I don’t overstep my job description, I just try to go out there and just do what they ask.”

Production isn’t the problem, so lack of size is what keeps Johnson from becoming a workhorse. Although he hasn’t missed a game in three seasons since being a third-round pick, the change-of-pace label sticks.

“That’s kind of the stigma that’s on us smaller backs, I would say, that we won’t hold up, we can’t hold up,” he said. “But then I watch guys like Darren Sproles do it for years. And do it at a high level for years. It’s the NFL, you’re going to have guys that get banged up, that miss games. It’s just part of the game. But I take pride if I’m able to walk and go out and play, I’m going to try everything I can to play.”

Run game coordinator/running backs coach Kirby Wilson called the label “extremely unfair.”

“He does a lot of things really well that go unnoticed at times because of the way he is built and the way he runs,” Wilson said.

On an offense averaging a league-worst 15 points, Johnson has supplied a bulk of the highlights. Against the Colts, he took a short pitch, got away from a pair of linebackers, sprinted upfield and dived into the end zone for a 19-yard touchdown. Against the Jaguars, he had an effective stiff-arm and later the touchdown catch in which he made linebacker Telvin Smith look silly with a move toward the sideline then back down the seam.

“No matter how you get him the ball, if you pass it to him, you hand it to him, I’m sure if he played defense he’d be a good football player, too,” left guard Joel Bitonio said. “He’s just one of those guys you want on your team. And I love playing with Duke.”

TOUGH AS NAILS

The not-without-a-fight spirit has been on display all year. Yet defenses still are caught off-guard.

“Which I like, because it takes them a second, third time to realize it, and by then I’ve done did a good little damage,” Johnson said. “When it comes to breaking tackles and things like that, I probably get underestimated because of my size. A lot of people think I’m a lot smaller than I really am, probably because I wear long sleeves so you really can’t tell.”

The sleeves cover his biceps.

“I’m ripped,” he said.

Rookie tight end David Njoku was teammates with Johnson at Miami. They’re next to each other in the locker room.

“He’s imposing his will against defenses,” Njoku said. “He’s just being Duke. Duke’s being Duke. Did the same in Miami and he’s doing it in the NFL.”

Wilson has been with Johnson for two seasons. He’s come to expect maximum effort resulting in missed and broken tackles.

“He is extremely tough mentally and physically,” he said. “He is not going to let you tackle him that easy. He knows when the journey is over, but at the same time, he is going to fight for every inch. He knows that we need every inch, and he knows those are important yards.”

Since entering the league in 2015, Johnson is first among NFL running backs with 1,462 receiving yards and second with 180 catches. Does he take pride in that?

“Somewhat. Not really too much,” he said. “I take pride more in whenever I get the ball I have the mentality that is whether it’s 10 (touches), whether it’s five, whatever it is during the game, making the most of the opportunity.

“So regardless of how many times I get it, I take more pride in making something happen when there’s nothing there.”

https://www.brownszone.com/2017/11/23/du...hulk-off-of-it/

Last edited by GratefulDawg; 11/23/17 08:36 PM.

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We need more guys with Duke's passion and ability.

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J/c:

Not sure who said it--perhaps many:

By saying one prioritizes Duke over Crowell, doesn't mean Duke should be the lead back. Although Duke has played surprisingly well in-between the tackles, it still warrants another RB upgrade over Crowell if he wants too much money or the FO just doesn't him as a long-term answer.

Duke offers so much more flexibility and athleticism in both the running and passing games, it'd be crazy not to consider him as an offseason extension candidate. Almost as crazy as the time he has seen on the field in comparison to others.


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Duke is not an every down back, can't take that pounding, but more so, he is better in space

We need to start winning for guys like him.


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Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Duke is not an every down back, can't take that pounding, but more so, he is better in space

We need to start winning for guys like him.


BS ...we need to start winning for US ... we’ve SUFFERED way longer than ANY OF THEM ... any player (including Joe), any coach and any owner ...

Especially the OLD MEN like me ... and then theirs the real old guys like Peen (man have u gotten grumpy bro ... naughtydevil ) ...

Duke should get 12 - 15 touches a game ...




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I think we have a good combination w/Crow and Duke. I think Duke is being utilized just as he should be. He endured a ton of nagging injuries in college when his workload got too large. He's a great versatile weapon, but you can't put him in a position to be a 20+ touch guy a game.

We're fine at RB. Too much emphasis being put on this unit. The QBs, WRs, and TEs [maybe just due to inexperience w/the latter group] are where the concerns are on offense.

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I agree with your synopsis above ... we need an upgrade at QB/WR and TE more than we need to replace Crow ..

We may have the answer at QB and TE ... i would definetly take a QB with either our 1st or Houstons 1st rnd pick ... i would give the TE’s more time ...

No way would i take the PSU RB ... we have MUCH LARGER HOLES to fill ... and I’m no fan of Crow ... i dont think replacing him is a high priority but I don’t think much of him ... he’s barely average in my book ..

Personally I’d love to see them shore up the secondary .... we could have a DOMINATE D if we could get a Malik Hooker type in the draft and the best FA CB on the market ... many ways we could go there ... and it depends on whose available ... but other than getting Cousins or taking a QB with one of our high 1st rnd picks .. i’d Have no problem if they brought in SECONDARY HELP with our other high picks or a bunch of our cap space ...

But we can talk about that later .... thumbsup




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I agree w/all of that.

While I was trying to make the point of it shouldn't be a Crow vs Duke thing, but rather, a Crow with Duke thing....I feel that is almost no way that Crow will be on the Browns next year.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I agree w/all of that.

While I was trying to make the point of it shouldn't be a Crow vs Duke thing, but rather, a Crow with Duke thing....I feel that is almost no way that Crow will be on the Browns next year.



I agree, I think there's a very strong possibility that Crow won't be here either. I don't think he'll be cut, but I think it will be another situation where we'll make him an offer, likely a market based one according to his performance... he'll want more and end go elsewhere because I doubt we budge on our offered number.


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Take what the Draft offers you .. If the draft is strong in RB's go with one or two .. If OL or WR , well you get my drift .. One thing the Browns shine at , is putting a round peg in a square hole ! lol

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I agree with others here ... not a huge fan of Crow, but also realize the WR/QB play is FAR worse


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Just a note...I don't think Crowell will be with us next season. You can get good ones anywhere in rounds 1-4 from the draft and they usually contribute as rookies.

Barclay? possibly kid will leave an impact I think he's better than Zeke. But only cause we got two first round picks.
QB, CB and LT might have more priority. But special is special.

We haven't been able to sign Crowell as of now with our offers.
With the season he is having I doubt we are going to up our ante. He will definitely test the market. We probably will have made the best offer but we will take it away when he comes back to us cause nobody came close to our offer. We will get somebody in the draft...if not first round then 2nd or 3rd!

jmho


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j/c

Other teams manage to get significant production from multiple backs...multiple oftentimes being more than just 2. The Eagles last week had 3 RBS make impressive, productive plays. The Ravens regularly plug in some no-name cat who runs all over us and other teams.

Crow is not the answer...I'll be happy when we move on from him. However, we don't have to spend a 1st or 2nd to replace him.

Jeremy Hill is a FA next year. If Hue is still here, I wouldn't be surprise (or opposed) to see him here.

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
I agree with others here ... not a huge fan of Crow, but also realize the WR/QB play is FAR worse


Our QB/WR's are also younger than Crow. They should get better. Kizer in particular. When we drafted him, the talk was that we knew he had things he needed to fix/learn.

Having a go-to guy does wonders for a QB. Goff's best WR last year was Kenny Britt, the Rams were horrible. Kizer's best WR for most of this season (with Coleman injured) was Kenny Britt (on paper), we've been horrible.

I want to see how Kizer does with Coleman and Gordon come the end of the year. Not expecting miracles, but I think having better receivers available might help him look better.

Unfortunately, in addition to WRs, Goff got Whitworth to protect his blindside. With Joe T. hurt, Drango's play has been a bit more up and down.


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If Crow wants top money, all I can say is... good luck and we can replace him without much fear. He's a good back IMO, but he's not elite. He's FAR from elite.

Let the man walk after this season depending how much $ he's demanding and we can burn one of the draft picks and be in the same, if not better, situation. Dude is chasing dollar signs hearing him talk anyway, probably do a Droughns and run like crap after getting paid.

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Hill SUCKS bro ... he’s BRUTAL ....

I’m shocked he made their team this year .... he was a starter in name only ...

I’d take Crow over him in a HEARTBEAT!!!!

Good lord Willie ...




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Not that it matters cause EACH SITUATION IS DIFFERENT ...

But ...

Whose Goff’s bestt WR this year Grimm? .. who does he have that is BETTER THAN BRITT played last year .. don’t forget .. he was in a contract year and was an entirely DIFFERENT PLAYER lat year ... same name on he backof the jersey ... but thats the ONLY RESEMBLENCE ...

rofl ...

If your going to make a comparision like that ... at least use a decent example ...

I expect Kizer to look better if JG is 75% of what he once was and Coleman can stay healthy ... but it won’t SOLVE KIZERS ISSUES ...

It sounds like a lot of u guys want to boil Kizer’s issues down to a few easily fixable things ... your just fooling yourselves ...

NO WAY do i want to give up on him .. but please dont point to Goff and say thats proof Kizer will be good ...its BS .... especially when your saying Goff going from Britt to ... i know who is receivers are .. do u w/o looking it up ...

Cause JG and Coleman is a MAJOR MAJOR UPGRADE on all 3 of Goff’s “best” receivers .. and i actually LOVE one of Goffs receivers ... thumbsup




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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I agree w/all of that.

While I was trying to make the point of it shouldn't be a Crow vs Duke thing, but rather, a Crow with Duke thing....I feel that is almost no way that Crow will be on the Browns next year.


Making it a Duke vs Crow issue is SILLINESS IMO ... they pay the same position but are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT backs ... not telling u anything u don’t all ready know ...

I just read something that is scary to me ... i’ll Post it in a bit ...

As far as Crow and next year ... it’ll be interesting ... my guess is hes going to want more than we are willing to pay ... not sure how tagging him this year would work ... if the price is to hefty to tag him ... i think he’s going to test the market and fine out hes not going to get what he wants ...

Lots of factors at play here ... it’ll be interesting to see how this one pans out ...

tabber ...

No way would i take Barkley with either of our first round picks ... hes not that special ... NO WAY ...




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Jc...

I would let Crow walk...Really no point to re-sign him...

Isnt Carlos Hyde going to be a FA this year? I may be wrong but I thought the 49ers didn't pick up his option...Heard rumors of Shanahan not caring for him to much, and also trade/cut rumors...I would pursue him hard in FA, a tandem of Hyde and Duke would be something to brag about...And nice thing is Hyde has rather soft hands for a big back, and has very good vision.

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Originally Posted By: waterdawg
Take what the Draft offers you .. If the draft is strong in RB's go with one or two .. If OL or WR , well you get my drift .. One thing the Browns shine at , is putting a round peg in a square hole ! lol


Every situations different bro .. and this year .. if lets say a Barkley is our highest rated player .. NO WAY do i take him ... RIGHT NOW and this will change during FA we need a CB .. FS .. more secondary help and WR’s and a QB way more than we need a RB or DL or OLman ..

Now if u have a VERY SPECIAL TALENT like a Myles Garrett or a Joe Thomas ... then HELL YA ... i see NONE OF THEM THIS YEAR ... o we need to adress our needs way more than we need to take a RB.OLman or Dlman just because their our highest rated player ..

Sorry bro .. THIS YEAR i can’t agree with that draft strategy ...




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J/C

Not sure if anyone else posted it, but:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...uch-as-possible

Quote:
"He plays a lot. Sometimes he plays more than the starter because of the two-minute, the situational football aspect of it, and sometimes he doesn't," running backs coach Kirby Wilson explained Friday. "Last week, it fell into that call of we just didn't have a lot of offensive snaps early on. We didn't have a lot of conversions on third downs, which leads to more opportunities.

"We would like him on the field as much as possible in all situations because we believe in him as a player and a playmaker. So that's up to us as coaches and me in particular to make sure that he's always involved and always has a role in being out on the field at all times or as much as possible."


I wonder how much more we'll see of Duke moving forward. I don't think he can shoulder the rushing load on his own, but Crowell should be playing second fiddle.

Crowell isn't a bad player, but he's not so good that he should have 129 rushes to Duke's 46. I think Hue is being a little too transparent. Duke is a receiver, Crowell is a rusher. However, Crowell has been very effective as a receiver and Duke has been very effective as a rusher. He should be mixing up their roles a little more to keep defences guessing. They're a little too obvious right now.

(Edit - If you click through to the link, there is a video of Duke Johnson mic'd up against Jacksonville. Pretty cool.)

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Yeah we see him and Kizer in shotgun in the backfield in the two minute because we're pass happy, as usual (although it seems we've gotten more happy to hand the ball of) but if he's playing more than the starter, he's not taking hand offs, he's running a route.

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I've stated recently that he will be a candidate to be taken with our 2nd round picks. I even PM'd you about my final thoughts of Mayfield...all be it a Pain killer induced insomniac post like 4am...lol

But in a post answering Vers I stated the liklihood we take Mayfield is not high at all cause of our QB need and early picks of our own and with the Texans we should be taking another QB early.

The only way we take Mayfield is if we feel Kizer is a lot better a prospect than I give credit to and we trade back from overall #1 or so to get more picks and eventually take Mayfield in the 2nd round. But the odds of that happening are slim to none.

Mayfield is the real deal but should not be in our realm of opportunity. Now this is a RB thread just to let everyone know...lol laugh

Again...Crowell I believe will not be a Brown we will let him walk and test the Market. We will not keep our offer on the table when he comes back and wants to sign it as it was by far the best offer out there. Which means we will draft a RB it could be early with Barcklay or a real good RB in the 2nd round?

We have not signed him yet. Which means we made an offer I'm sure and he rejected it. After the season he is having this year we sure as heck are not going to improve on that offer.

So although I like Crowell I think he is as good as gone!

jmho


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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Hill SUCKS bro ... he’s BRUTAL ....

I’m shocked he made their team this year .... he was a starter in name only ...

I’d take Crow over him in a HEARTBEAT!!!!

Good lord Willie ...


I'd take Hill with a broken foot over a malcontent like Crow.

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Malcontent? Watch his blitz pickups from last week. I'm not Crow's biggest fan, but guys who have packed it in don't sacrifice their bodies like that in pass pro.


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j/c

This thread seems like it's almost followed the same path as any discussion on the FO / Hue ... it's like people become polarized.

Crow isn't the reason we are 1-24 or is it 1-25. Is he the best back in the NFL? No where close. But he's more than serviceable and I like the combo of him and Duke - although in my first post on this thread says, I think Duke is the bigger play-maker and can make things happen more than Crow. . . I've also stated that running out of a power running formation would help Crow enormously.

I agree with Grimm - Crow has done an outstanding job picking up the blitzer. He blocks better than any other back we have and that wouldn't be discounted when we have a roookie QB who holds on to the ball too long.

It would be nice to keep him if we can and he is happy to be here - I don't want a guy who has a chip on his shoulder against the organization to be on the team. But why create a void when you don't need one. I'd rather have crow and pick up a 3rd or 4th round piece for the D than be looking to take a rookie RB to replace Crow. . . I don't know who the other FA's will be and someone mentioned Carlos Hyde ... I think he has a history of being injured which Crow doesn't have and while Hyde might be a little better back - it's not night and day difference imo. Hyde would struggle just as much with 8 in the box like we face so often.


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Originally Posted By: GrimmBrown
Malcontent? Watch his blitz pickups from last week. I'm not Crow's biggest fan, but guys who have packed it in don't sacrifice their bodies like that in pass pro.


Watch his runs up the middle if the hole isn't as wide as a truck. Why can't he gain a yard on 3rd & 1 but Duke can?

His head is up his contract (and THIS is the production he's giving us) and getting a jersey from a guy who trashed his team during the week.

We will be a better offense when we move on from Crow.

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Neither one are a featured back .. We ( as fans ) need to stop excepting average as wow ..

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Originally Posted By: GrimmBrown
Malcontent? Watch his blitz pickups from last week. I'm not Crow's biggest fan, but guys who have packed it in don't sacrifice their bodies like that in pass pro.


Watch his runs up the middle if the hole isn't as wide as a truck. Why can't he gain a yard on 3rd & 1 but Duke can?

His head is up his contract (and THIS is the production he's giving us) and getting a jersey from a guy who trashed his team during the week.

We will be a better offense when we move on from Crow.


Thinking the zero on Zeitler's back is the hole he's supposed to hit is not a symptom of being a malcontent. It is an issue, but not an effort issue.


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j/c:

Man, Crow was awful today. No moves. No power. No speed. No vision. We should cut his ass!

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Didn't he get like, 95 yards? I figure you're being sarcastic.....


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I am being sarcastic, bro.

Dude was beasting out today. He actually looked very good in all those things I said he didn't look good in. LOL

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Lol, yeah. I hope we keep him actually. His low #s aren't all on him this season. He's not a special back, but he IS serviceable and DOES have burst, doesn't fumble and is a load when he starts running downhill.


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Crow and Duke make a good combo. But, I don't think our FO will keep him and I doubt he will want to return, especially if the dumb asses fire Hue.

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They're a solid one-two punch, each with different skill sets. Duke is not a 20-25 carry back, Crow is not a dynamic type of player in the way Duke is, with his fast cuts and good hands.


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I wish we could keep them both. If our passing game was more prolific, this duo would kick ass!!!!

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