DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus House to propose big higher education bill this week

Mine do.

Too many people care about Greek architecture. Death to the pillars.

The CEO of Fidelity majored in Art History. Humanity courses don't really have a clear cut entry level job.

Also to think that an art history major wouldn't be able to do even the most basic things with art or even photoshop is funny. No one spends 4 years learning about art if they don't do art.

Keep pretending you know something about the world, kid.

lol keep pretending like you've met an art history major before.

I would probably laugh if I met an Art History major. lol

What a waste.

How can you hate from outside of the club when you can't even get in?

I took art history classes when I was in college. It wasn't my major, I chose electives for the easy A, but I know what a pansy degree it is. It's for lameos who want something easy to study.

So yeah, I roll my eyes.

lol the hate

It's not really hate, it's just that it's a lame degree with no future in the job market. There are very few employers that want you.

As a field of study, it was very fascinating. And very fun to learn about.

But no practical applications. Very niche.

So why drop 50-100K on that.

Kinda stupid.

Get a more practical degree.

Is that how much you dropped on your degree?

Uhm, I'm old school. Back in my day we could pay (or at least I could) out of pocket for college because the cost was much lower.

So I have no loans to pay off. Hell if I know how much I spent on college.

This is actually one area where I feel the govt needs to do some regulations.

But I guess that's a different convo.

jc

I think latching onto a specific degree and trying to prove/disprove it's usefulness is foolish. Some degrees have much higher student body sizes and some have much smaller. Additionally making every degree a function of "final pay" isn't accurate because in that case, I got a useless degree because I didn't become a brain surgeon or anesthesiologist. Some people are happy making less if the work is meaningful enough to them.

Also, I have interviewed over a hundred software engineers for roles at my company. Many of them are so bad (because the field is so saturated) that I feel they wasted their money. Had they pursued their passions instead of dollar signs, it might have actually turned out differently for them. A person with passion for art history has a better shot at getting into a very tough/niche field if they are GOOD at it, than someone who has no passion for software/STEM and did it for the wrong reasons.

I think they should be competitive.. but they should be competing for the BEST STUDENTS.. not the students who can most likely afford the tuition.

I've done this rant before so I'll try to keep this short.. the amount of money colleges spend on "social spaces" like student unions, weight rooms, gyms, pools, tennis courts, elaborate food courts, intramural fields, coffee bars, outdoor parks, etc (and that doesn't even include what they spend on actual athletic facilities).. absolutely DWARFS the amount of money they spend on education related facilities... and it's NOT to attract those kids who are 100% committed to their academics, it's to attract (and paid for) by the kids who want to attend classes at a country club for 4 years.

If you think the money they spend is bad, you should see what their endowments look like.

The PSLF going away has me a bit worried...considering that's a huge reason I'm in the job I'm working. If it goes out, hopefully it'll be a phaseout for new student loan applicants.

Agreed on the financing choice, I think school boosters want fancy equipment for the football team to attract the best HS players for scholarships. It's cool for TV and the alma mater but does little for education.

If we want cheaper education but we *don't* want to socialize it, we need to make it a similar loan purchase as a house or car, and make it similarly risky to the lender. The way I see it, lenders would dry up quickly on the expensive schools for people of normal means, forcing more people downmarket, which would be somewhat painful for a while. But I don't believe UCLA gives you a substantially better education than say, the University of Akron. Maybe in some fields but the aggregate I just don't see it. The ripple effect of those very expensive schools would be to compete on price, and everyone would be better off.

Right now we both subsidize student loans at the fed level via grants and have no oversight in how much the education costs. This is crazy. This is equal to single payer health care with no cost controls. I still think the ideal approach to maximize school choice is to subsidize WITH price control, but I believe we have a "free market" tweak that can do wonders for our system as well that would be bipartisan.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephanie-storey/to-succeed-in-business-ma_b_10117802.html


Today, our society is reliant on visual storytelling. Instagram, snapchat, everything on your computer or phone is visual. Pictures drive clicks. The more compelling a picture, the more eyeballs you draw, the more product you can push.

While others in college focus on numbers, art history students are developing a visual vocabulary and learning to tell compelling stories with a single image. An art history major can look critically at smash TV shows, viral videos, or marketing campaigns and deconstruct that content in visual terms. No matter what your numbers guys tell you, they cannot predict what will work and what won’t based on a focus group. But someone with a command of the visual language can to tell you whether an image will have an impact

I am specifically talking about Art History. I’m talking about being educated in the history of perspective, color, composition, style, rhythm, disegno. I’m talking about being able to mentally reference images that have moved people for hundreds of years. If we can understand why and how the Sistine Ceiling, Rembrandt’s portraits, Van Gogh’s landscapes, and Munch’s Scream still touch us today, then perhaps we can help all of our businesses connect more effectively in this crowded, competitive visual landscape.

Read an article once about how much donations to Maryland went up after they won the basketball championship, it wasn't just athletic donations either, they went up across the board. So there is something to a good athletic program just keeping alumni interested but I have NO IDEA whether it's a net gain or loss for the majority of schools.


I can see that.. The other thing I don't get is duplication of courses. UNC has a business school, NC State has one, UNC Pembroke has one, UNC Wilmington one, UNC Charlotte has one, UNC Asheville has one, etc.. these campuses are all just a couple hours from each other (except UNC and NC State, which are about 20 minutes from each other).. they all have at least one $50 million building committed to the business school with classrooms and lecture halls that are only used about 30% of the time, they each have a full staff of professors and administration, etc...

Now I would think that you could combine those into a few business schools at a few campuses, consolidate the resources and save a crap load of money. Maybe one in the western end of the state, one in the middle, and one on the coast..

It gets even worse in some of the science and technology majors that require a bunch of specialized equipment that every university needs one of.. when it's only used for a couple hours a day.. consolidate that stuff. Every college doesn't have to be all things to all people....

Thanks for that. "Dumb, and out of touch with reality"? Really?

For the record, my son and I visited 5 schools when he was in high school.

He wanted to go into nursing.

1 school was a private liberal arts school, with a religious background. He didn't like it, even though it had/has a great nursing school.

Visited Case Western Reserve - because he wanted to. Good school. A bit pricey, but he'd have possibly/probably gotten some money. It's not - or wasn't at the time anyway, known for the nursing program, but I'm sure the program was/is good. (he didn't like the set up of the "campus" either, and I didn't blame him)

Youngstown State. For some reason, he wanted to visit there. We went. Price was awesome. Not much else appealed to him though, and that was fine with me.

Toledo. Awesome campus, close to "home", which meant nothing to him or I really. Cost was decent. They really tried to sell him on the dorms, and food courts, etc. Nursing school seemed decent. It was high on his list.

Capital U in Columbus. Set up a visit. He went off with a guide. I talked with some of the prof's in the nursing program. When we met back up, I could tell he loved the campus, I liked the program.

Tad pricey at the time, but, as our h.s. guidance counselors had said - don't let price between public and private colleges determine anything.

Next thing you know, after an application and what not to Toledo and Capital, Toledo offered $1000 a year. Cap said "come on down and test for the Presidents scholarship.

So, we did. He qualified. Got half his tuition paid for. He went there for less than what Toledo would've cost him, especially after his freshman year. As a sophomore, he lived off campus, splitting a rental house with 4 others. That saved a bunch as well.


Thanks. I think my daughter and I will do just fine in the search for a school that fits her, fits the money, and that she likes and fits in to.

She knows exactly what she wants to do - well, as much as any 17 year old does. She's already taking college classes as well.

I'm sure you know more than myself. That's fine. But my daughter will do just fine, with dad's help.

Thanks for your mockery. It's noted.

I’m not gonna break down your post, but this part bugged me:

Case western- a bit pricey.

A BIT? Arch that school cost damn near 50k a year to go to!! That’s a lot more than “a bit pricey”

And by the way, my son, all on his own (but with a little guidance/encouragement and financial backing as best as I/we could, has done pretty damn well for himself.)

He's got loans, but he has a job that enables him to pay those loans, plus his house, plus all his other bills - even while working part time when he was in grad school.

Go ahead and laugh.

Well, keep in mind this was 11 years ago I believe. It was right around $40,000 at the time.

Like I said, I'm sure that number would've decreased due to scholarship money, etc. But, it was a school geared more to doctor and engineering. If my memory is correct.

Regardless, my son didn't like it, so we pursued it no further.

It's a private school... the tuition is on par with Duke and Princeton...

i know its a private school. the school is right down the street from the hood.

i never seen so many Cali and NY license plates in my life in ohio except in that area.

Then it sounds even more like Duke... adjacent to the worst part of Durham and if you see an in-state license plate on campus, it's probably a professor.

I agree with your approach by the way. My wife and I agree that for our sons we will do as much as we can to prepare them for college and help reasonably. This is a big reason my house was signed on a 20 year fixed that I'm overpaying to close out in 17, so that way I won't have a mortgage when my sons are ready to go to college. I could have done a 30YF and a 529 plan but opted this route instead...

All that said, I'm not gonna foot the whole bill. They will need to pay a portion on their own.

my sister is going to duke for grad studies... she told me the costs and WOWZA. Good thing she has a stipend. Bad thing if the GOP tax plan taxes it like they want to.

I've been putting the max allowed tax deductible amount into a 529 (sometimes more) for my son since he was born, he'll have a descent amount by the time he heads off to college. I've told him if he gets scholarships and I don't have to pay the money is his when he graduates. He doesn't know how much is there, but it will likely be 100k+ when he gets to the point of college (he's a Freshman in highschool this year). It'll get the crap taxed out of it if that occurs, but it would still be nice to start out life debt free and maybe 60k in the bank.

I paid for my college working on a union road construction crew in the summers so I didn't have any debt when I graduated. My parents helped a bit, but I paid for most of it myself.

good man! I already told my wife that the twins can only look at colleges that do BOGO tuitions for twins.

Even if I'm only half joking, Lake Erie College does a program like that.

1 thing I forgot to mention when I first replied to this derisive, looking down the nose at Arch post:

My daughter is a jr. She is also taking college classes this year. This semester, next semester, and she will take 2 college classes this summer.

She will continue to do so next year, her sr. year. She will have most of her "first year" classes finished by the time she even enters college.

Dumb, and out of touch with reality? No, not me, bud. Not her either.

You think that knitting is a major, that's dumb and out of touch with reality.

Well, of course they coin it in better terms: Textile arts.

https://www.mymajors.com/career/knitting-teacher/education/

https://learn.org/articles/Bachelors_Degrees_in_Textile_Arts_Program_FAQS.html

You keep on calling me dumb and out of touch with reality if that's what you want to do.

My daughter will be just fine with me guiding her - being a dad to her. Thank you very much.

Here is yet another example of the point I was making:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/7/9/5885433/ncaa-trial-student-athletes-education

That deals with athletes. The broader point is, colleges and Universities offer up bunk "majors" in order to...........get customers.

Period.

Who is dumb and out of touch?

You are. That's an entirely different field that includes knitting. You're making these things up. They're also programs found only in art schools.

Yes, she will...go Sooga!

You still are by listing programs that only athletes are involved in because colleges need to keep up the appearance of an education so that they can keep their slave labor.

my boy got a scholarship to CSU for basketball. he majored in liberal studies.

You simply don't get it. Those programs are available to anyone, not just athletes.

Did he graduate? (when you say "he majored" in...it sounds like he's not in school anymore, that's why I ask)