DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer Rnd 5

Exactly, and that's the problem. This is why I'm counting on one of the mods to do the right thing. I don't deserve that hanging over my head just because someone wants to maliciously try to manipulate members of the board in to thinking I said something foul. I'm still pissed off at that. Incredibly callous. A real true colours moment for Vers.

It does take some thick skin to post on message boards. I'd suggest you will have better results trying to deploy that tactic.

This one in particular takes some thick skin.

He did the right thing with me ... he put me on ignore after about my 2nd post to him ...

Smart move on his part .. its all about having fun and he’ll enjoy his stay here with me on ignore much more ...

He doesn’t like my saying about STATS and he doesn’t have the thickest of skin ... prolly not a good combo for enjoyment when u use STATS most of the time ....

Proving my point ... u FLAT OUT LIED ...

I won’t be holding my breath waiting for your apology to Vers ... ...

Since he can't see your post I'll just have to say that I agree that STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!

You guys are weird.

I have no problem with what someone says to me. I'm not sheltered from the depths of internet insults. Lying about something I said isn't my skin I've got to worry about, it's the skin of others who'll take a liar at face value.

I didn't start this. I just want the truth to be outed.

Oh good god ... what did u do that for ...

It was funny as hell .. hes gonna think i put u up to it ... now he’ll take a sniper shat and go back into hiding again ... he did it a few days ago ...

Funny part of that one ... i was WRONG and apologized ot him ... i was pretty sure he had me on ignore again ... so after i apologized ot him in the thread .... i went to PM him an apology ... i had no clue when someone put U on ignore that u couldn’t PM them ... *L* ..

So he missed my apology ... oh well ...

No problem with the fact he has me on IGNORE .. not such a big fan of sniper shots and then going back into hiding ... i’m More a FACE THE MUSIC kinda guy ...

The other funny part ... you’ll get a kick out of this .. when he took his sniper shot ... he said .. that I GOT HIM SUSPENDED .... he must think I blew him into the refs ... ...

Or stats are for people that like as much information as possible to make the most informed decision as possible.


But I get why you posted that. I really do.

I saw the apology and appreciated it. It takes courage to admit a mistake so I thought that was really cool. You didn't have to do that, but I appreciate that you did. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to bump an honest mistake or make it seem like I was boasting.

I'm not hiding from anything. You just never seem interested in talking about football. "Stats are for..." doesn't address the points raised.

For example, Trubisky has a PFF adjusted completion percentage of 64.6%. Kizer's is 68.7%. So, that's accuracy not accounting for drops, throw aways, etc.

I think it is fair to say that both are rookies who need to improve their accuracy, but Kizer is still more accurate than the #2 overall selection.

We can talk about that, but if all I'll get is those magic four words, then we're not really talking, you know?

Really? What part in your 12 year old mind is untrue?

I don't actually hate stats per say. What I hate is when people try to use only stats in a debate. When they don't actually have anything other than a stat sheet to bolster their side of things.

Let's use college QB's as an example. They'll try to say that a QB is bad because they didn't have a great winning record. Now that sounds good in theory but doesn't really hold water. There are so many other factors that go into it.

How was the OL protection? What was the quality of his WR's and their running game? How about their defense?

Hopefully you get my meaning from this. Yes, stats can play an ingredient of an entire meal. But stats alone can leave a bad taste in your mouth and give you very little information in the grand scheme of things.

I think anyone who thinks stats have no value or validity is also a loser as well. Lots of losers around i guess.

I completely agree with your take. And I don't think it is those kinds of stats ( ex: a QB win record), that the Browns, or any other FO, is using to prioritize and heavily weigh decision-making. Could it be a factor? I guess so.

I can't be for sure, but I think other measurables take precedence.

My point....the "stats are for losers" phrase, is well, for losers.

Why should it take thick skin to be on a browns board. Most folks come here to talk browns football not argue and demean other posters.

No stat for the "IT" factor...

Haven't been following this, but this morning had it in my mind.
Touchdowns are stats.
wins vs losses are a stat.
playoffs.

Super Bowl rings are a stat.

Pro Football hall of fame jackets are a stat too.
Whatever.

j/c:

There are a lot of little girls on this board. Good God!

I’m up for patty cake .... u? ...

Common Sense is pretty much a goner also ...

They have no clue what ... STATS ARE FOR LOSERS mean ... they take it literally ...

This morning, KWhip, Turk, and I were talking about the QB room............and then WSU, Memphis, and BDU got involved and there hasn't been talk about Kizer and the qb situation since.

Diam, what do you think of us drafting Rosen, keeping Kizer, and signing a vet [someone like Matt Moore, Drew Stanton, Fitzpatrick, etc?]

I think that Rosen could start day one. I think Kizer has potential to be a decent starter. I would like a vet to teach the young bucks the nuances of the position and not actually be a viable threat to start.

What do you think of that?

Now, if you don't like Rosen..........the plan might have to change a bit because the other qbs might need some seasoning.

All worthy discussions will be welcomed by you and and others.

I replied to that theory earlier .. im the one that first mentioned the upgraded QB room next year if we sign a vet (McCarron) and drafted one high ...

If Kizer plays good enough over the next 5 weeks .. i’d be fine with downgrading from a McCarron to a Moore for the vet .. actually it’d be smart ....

Not having done my research yet ... Rosen would be fine based off what you and bone and a few others i trust have said ..

I said to start whoever plays the best throughout TC ...

If thats Rosen so be it .. with his experience .. i’d Hope it would be Kizer ... but who knows ..

Its a fine plan ... hopefully we do it ..

Ironically, that's what I'm in trouble for. I mentioned Kizer's stats don't tell the whole truth because he's got as many rushing touchdowns as passing touchdowns that are rarely taken in to account. He's played in 10 games, and has 10 touchdowns. Trubisky has played in 7 games but has only 4 touchdowns.

I also mentioned that Kizer's completion percentage isn't dissimilar from other rookies who don't share the "inaccurate" label. Kizer has a higher adjusted completion percentage and a higher completion percentage (Okay, .2% on this one) than Trubisky.

That's always played on my mind in the perception of the Cleveland Browns. Kizer is outright a better, more productive quarterback than Trubisky. He's also younger, less refined and has a greater skill-set - that's to say, he's got more upside. Perhaps most important, Deshone isn't the same quarterback he was at the beginning of the season, and even some of his biggest critics have been forced to acknowledge his improvement. (Matt Miller, for example, who changed his mock draft to acknowledge Kizer's improvement BUT.. etc)

Kizer is also playing in a big boy offense, but Trubisky still exists within a very gimmicky, roll-out, half-field, designed read system. I also think Deshone has shown great leadership, too. He's becoming much more vocal and his confidence is growing.

So, why does Trubisky matter?

The perception is that we missed on Watson but not the Bears, they got their quarterback. We need to draft a new quarterback because ours isn't good but not the Bears, they got their quarterback. We're the dysfunctional organization who ruined everything, should probably fire everyone and begin rebuilding again.

There is only just now a faint glimmer of criticism regarding Trubisky. This piece, for example, is rather ruthless.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/foo...1202-story.html

Others take a weird route, such as this one:



I somewhat laughed at the desperation in such a piece. Yay, our rookie is taking on an awful team, he might finally look good! Meanwhile, our rookie had a career day on a divisional rival who boast a top 10 passing defense and we sort of just shrugged because he didn't put up 30 points so we lost.

In the 4th Kizer thread, I posted someone's film breakdown of the Bengals game that highlighted two huge dropped touchdowns and multiple great pre-snap reads by Kizer. In this thread I highlighted Hue Jackson breakdown down Kizer making two pre-snap reads, one diagnosing a blitz and adjusting the protection to pick it up, and the other reading the coverage and changing Coleman's route which led to a 40 yard dart in spite of being under pressure.

Those things get me excited about a young quarterback.

So I don't much understand the perception that we're empty at the position, devoid of any option in which Kizer's development might actually be worth considering, while other teams seemingly get a pass on a young quarterback struggling. We saw it last year with the Rams and Eagles, we're seeing it this year with the Bears, but we remain the team that must make sweeping changes.

Those aren't stats. They're just boring old facts.

Kiser may not prove to be the guy and i definitely am in favor of drafting a QB to compete with him. The things I like that I've seen from Kiser so far are his toughness, he can take a hit. His size. He's athletic. He's smart. Good arm. He's faced a lot of adversity since he's been here and is still showing improvement. The kid is only 21. I see a lot of upside with Kiser providing he keeps working and learning.

Kizer has potential. He has the size, athleticism, arm strength, intelligence, and has fought through adversity all year.

His negatives are his lack of accuracy and his post-snap reads. Those are both huge and it is why we will take a QB high in the draft.

I also do have a couple of minor concerns about Kizer:

--he doesn't throw w/much touch

--not sure if his teammates like him very much. That's more of a feeling by watching how players react to him after plays than anything else. I haven't read anything that says they don't like him.

I thought Kiser threw with more touch last game. As for his teammates liking him, i have never seen anything to think that. Kiser is very young and I'm sure his reads will improve with experience. He's very smart. Hopefully he will continue to show improvement the rest of the year.

I think we've already seen Kizer's ceiling. We need to take a QB early 1st in the draft. That Penn st RB is tempting!!!

Mayfield would be awesome in Cleveland!!!!!!! Good post EO

I would also like to see Kiser under center more and more play action passing.

I think people think post-snap reads are tied to intelligence. Pre-snap reads are, but not post-snap.

Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting the same results.

Just say no to head case QB’s.

Well I explained that just above your post. But then reading is fundamental.

J/C

I was reading PFF's game preview and Kizer when pressure was mentioned. Thought it was worth sharing.

Jc

I have seen enough of Kizer. He is trash, he will not get better, not enough to be a franchise QB.

He missed Gordon on two separate throws that could’ve been TDs. He missed Coleman wide open at least twice. He has no pocket awareness. He doesn’t not throw the ball away when nothing is here. He takes unnecessary sacks. He is inaccurate. He does not use his mobility enough to move within the pocket or take off for wide open runs.

We can debate everyday til draft day on which QB should be taken #1 overall, but the fact remains, we need to draft a QB because Kizer is not the answer.

I was absolutely ticked we even took him in the 2nd round, a guy who got benched in college and didn’t do anything worthy of being taken in the 2nd.

It’s time he FO got their crap together and actually get Hue a QB he wants.

If it’s Rosen, so be it. If it’s Jackson, so be it. If it’s, Darnold or Mayfield, so be it.

But Kizer had Njoku running wild. He had Coleman running wild. He had Gordon running wild.

Any competent QB would’ve had 350 yards passing and 4 TDs today. That’s how wide open these WRs were. Kizer either underthrew it, or overthrew it.

He is not the answer. It is time to move on.

With a decent QB, we would have 4 wins at least this year.

Kizer has a strong arm and runs decent, i'll give him that much. I want to see him succeed, but so far? I just don't see it in him and don't see it happening in the future either.

Please draft a QB at number one.

j/c:


https://twitter.com/PFF_JohnKosko/status/937475031365488640

24.5?! Wow!

Every post I make gets deleted lmao. Kizer deserves it. There really isn't an accurate way to describe his performance without profanity.

DeShone Kizer under pressure:

1 of 9, 24 yards, 1 INT, 0.0 passer rating.

https://twitter.com/PFF_JohnKosko/status/937482139804762112

lol I think I have been saying this

"Kizer = Weeden/RGIII