DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office...cont....

Good add .... *L* ...

REVISIONIST HISTORY ... and a HUGE STRETCH ...

The stretch ...

This is the first time i’ve ever heard that we offered him more than anyone else ... that’s HORSE HOCKEY bro ...

And the REVISIONIST HISTORY ...

He’s agent came back to us ... and we turned our noses on the air on him for whatever reason ... STUPID STUPID STUPID ...

I don’t blame the FO for Mack, Gipson or Benji (i’m Actually glad they let Benji go .... ) ..

But Schwartz ... SQUARELY ON THEIR SHOULDERS ... no two ways about it .....

Some folks will stretch into Gumby defending the FO (not U but a few others) .. and thats BS ... and the Schwartz/Coleman debacle is one of their HUGE GUMBY MOMENTS ...

Why are we still talking about Schwartz? He's a average player. Did he make the Pro-Bowl or something?

....

Well at least you’ll be pissy for 3 less hours today ... ...

j/c:

One poster said something about it being harder for a RT when your LT is a future HOFer.

Uhmmmm.......I completely disagree w/that comment. When you have a LT like Joe, he plays on an island. He doesn't need help. Thus, your RT gets help from the TE and/or backs who chip on his man.

That was a very poor statement that was not even close to being correct.

Are you addressing that to me Vers?

Let me know.

The Browns are as bad as it gets, and other Week 13 thoughts

Posted by Michael David Smith on December 4, 2017, 5:53 AM EST
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The Browns are as bad as it gets, and other Week 13 thoughts
Posted by Michael David Smith on December 4, 2017, 5:53 AM EST
It’s not exactly breaking news that the Cleveland Browns are a terrible football team. They’re 0-12 after yesterday’s loss, and they’re a near-lock to earn the first overall pick in the draft for the second consecutive season.

But I don’t know if we’re talking enough about just how historically awful this Browns of the last two years, coached by Hue Jackson with a front office run by General Manager Hue Jackson and Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta, really is.

With yesterday’s loss to the Chargers, the Browns are now 1-27 in their two-year rebuilding effort, in which they were supposedly going to use statistical analysis to find innovative ways to build a roster. (DePodesta has experience doing that in baseball and is a key figure in Moneyball.) That’s not just bad, it’s historically bad: The Browns are as bad as any team has ever been, in the history of the NFL.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers entered the NFL as an expansion franchise in 1976, and that expansion team is widely regarded as the worst team in NFL history. But the Bucs won two of their first 28 games, so even those Buccaneers, at 2-26, were a game better than these Browns.

Will the whole Moneyball strategy work for the Browns? It’s hard to say because they’ve barely even tried yet: Step One of their strategy has been accumulating lots of draft picks, and they’ve done that well, with trades netting them an extra first-round pick and two extra second-round picks in next year’s draft. But is this team actually any good at using those picks to find good players? And at developing those players once they’re in Cleveland? I have my doubts.

It seems to me that if the Browns’ brain trust knew what they were doing, there would be some signs of progress from Year 1 to Year 2. And I’m not seeing any progress from Cleveland. If there was anything for a Browns fan to be excited about yesterday, it was the emergence of receiver Josh Gordon in his first game back from a lengthy drug suspension. But Gordon is a player the new brain trust inherited, so they can’t get any credit for his accomplishments.

I don’t think Jackson and the front office are a good fit together, and I think after the season the Browns need to either fire Jackson or give him enough personnel authority to sign or draft the quarterback he wants.

Or maybe Browns owner Jimmy Haslam just needs to fire everyone and start a big rebuilding effort all over again. That sounds like a mess, but 1-27 is already a mess.

That article sounds like a rant by a fan on a message board rather than a real reporter.

I don't like when guys post "fake" articles that are glowing of the FO and I don't this "fake" article, either.

Man, there is a lot of crap on the internet these days.

So...you don't believe that we offered Schwartz more than any other team? Seriously?

You can learn from the past, for sure ! .. My interest lay in going forward. Don't trust this brain trust with talent evaluation for starters .. They have torn this team down to bare bones , so I don't see a need for an over the hill of damaged Vet QB .. Said it before , will say it again ; Draft two in the upcoming draft .. Let Kiser and the two newbee's sling it out and grow ..

Unfortunately, Hue won't be here next year. 0-12 in back to back seasons, there ain't no way he can remain the head coach of this team. I really had hoped he would stick around and show some signs of life but he simply can't win a game.

Whether or not the front office stays intact remains to be seen. I think with the job they've done building a talented team (even though from "scratch") will have them back for another go around.

We really are only a few pieces away from winning this division and making the playoffs. 2 years of suck, and coming out of no where to make the playoffs might have been worth it, no?

There's the problem....Hue's the HC, OC AND the GM? He's got too much on his plate!

Hue is the infectious disease that is corrupting this whole organization. Cut it out and we can begin to heal.

Ive never heard that before Willie ... lots of things ive never heard of happend bro ...

Every argument ive heard on here has 3 components ...

1, we made an offer before he hit the market ...

2. He tested the waters ...

3. Him and his agent came back and we said stick up your bunghole ...

Never heard we offered him the most ..

Sure I do.



Just the opposite actually. As Vers pointed out, with Thomas on the left side, he needs no help. That frees up help for Coleman.



No harder than it is for any other player on the OL.



Here's a fact for you. Not every player develops. It's not like you can simply draft a tackle in round three and he develops the way Shcwartz developed. That's a common mistake I see on this board all the time.

People act like you can let a good player go and just "draft somebody and the problem is answered". Let's face it, if that were true we'd have a fantastic team right now! lol

Don't just fool yourself into believing that Coleman will be as good as Schwartz is. While it's possible, don't make it sound like some foregone conclusion. We may continue suffering those growing pains to the point that Coleman must be replaced by yet another draft pick. Rinse and repeat.

According to reports (true or not) we offered Schwartz a contract that averaged $8 mill a year if he wouldn't test Free Agency but he and his agent thought they could get closer to $10 mill a year on the market and refused the offer. Schwartz and his agent found out that the grossly over estimated the market and the best offer he got was from KC at an average of $6 mill a year and when they came back to us they were told that the $8 mill was no longer on the table and that the offer was reduced and with that Schwartz took the KC offer.

Per year means diddly today ...

Oh .. thanks for the info ... appreciate that ...

U need ot know GAURANTED $ and length and if there any poison pills in it ...

U cant jut look at per year average anymore .. it’s VERY VERY DECIEVING ..

I’ll wait for Willie to reply so i can skew him again .. i know where your going Willie .. watch your step my friend ...

A contract is only worth what is guaranteed. A player can be cut at any point and their contract ended. The only money they know they will get is the guaranteed portion of their contract.

Why do you think Schwartz and his agent came back to Cleveland after "testing the waters"? To accept a lesser deal? Please. C'Mon Man.

The only skew(ing) going on here is you trying to accuse me of REVISIONIST HISTORY and STRETCH when what I said was correct all along.

Look...you are trying to paint me (inadvertently I think) as being a guy who prefers that we have Coleman over Schwartz + the 3rd Rd pick we used on Coleman. I entered the fray here to simply state to Pit that the Coleman bashing is very reminiscent of the early Schwartz bashing...nothing more.

So...bring it on!

Well according Spotrac Schwartz got a 5 year $33 mill ($6.6 mill a year average) contract with $20,700,000 guaranteed and we supposedly offered 5 years at $7.5 mill a year. I can't find anything on how much money that we offered that was guaranteed but one report I read was that it was slightly less then what KC offered.

When Schwartz shopped his offer in the days leading up to free agency, the right-tackle market turned out to be worse than originally anticipated. Several teams were interested, but none matched or exceed the Browns' $7 million offer.

Did Schwartz become a member of The Browns Front Office?
Either the conversation or subject title are confusing me.

And ignored by the blind followers.

Of Schwartz.

May the Schwartz be with you. Or somewhere else.

I'll keep an out for it!

You may need a telescope as well.

I can see for miles and miles...

j/c:


https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/937735583115431936

Dorsey would certainly bring a level of credibility.

I would think Dorsey and Caserio would be the BIG TWO GMs to get this offseason.

Caserio would undoubtedly be an excellent an hire. For a man that can seemingly write his own ticket, I'd be surprised if Caserio would view the Browns as a desirable option, unfortunately.

He reportedly turned down an offer to interview with the 49ers last year due to the perceived atmosphere created by their owner. I can't imagine how he would view the Haslam ownership.

That certainly doesn't mean you don't try and go after him, however.

Sure you do and that is why we can count on the penalty report from you weekly.



Oh, you mean the rookie RT that is already supposed to be getting help, right? You say it makes no difference that defenses are attacking the right side because of JT. Alrighty then.



Well at least you agree that his job is harder than it should be.




Ahh, I get ya now! Nobody is ever going to be as good as Schwartz was since he's gone now. Nobody ever finds a RT in the 3rd round either.

You were probably one of those guys carrying the pitchforks in Schwartz's rookie season. Once he's gone though, it's something that you can point at and post blame. Of course if his replacement starts looking good, it kinda screws those plans up doesn't it?

Despite what you want to narrate, all I have said is that he looks good in his first year starting. He actually looks better than Schwartz did in his first year starting. I am not saying that he will become Schwartz either, but unlike you I am at least willing to give him that chance.

You can go back to throwing your dirt now.

Dorsey is definitely a football guy. He would also have some pull with Alex Smith if we were interested.

That is not true.

I remember arguing w/guys and I was the one who was saying he was "overrated."

Revisionist history by the FO Freaks.

My disdain for those of you who are blaming Hue for the FO's issues. Is that clear enough?