DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Sam Darnold

he's big, pretty mobile, strong arm ... pretty accurate

I like him. Not sure if he's a franchise guy (that's tough to spot) .. but he's got some nice potential

Outside of a few nice throws last night, I thought Darnold was unimpressive mostly. Had a lot receivers wide open. Stuff Kessler could complete. But I think the biggest negative was the other team had a real QB and the differences to my untrained eye were evident between the two.

Darnold looked like Kizer to me. We already have Kizer.

Rosen looked like he should be playing on Sunday.

Sure wish it was a year with a slam dunk kid at QB waiting to be #1. These dopes surely wouldn't leave another on the shelf would they?!

Pick one of the two favs, Kizer becomes backup and then pick a third in late rounds. A kid who has some potential you like and then jettison Kessler and Hogan.

Not at all a QB evaluator but a fresher group would smell nicer!

I agree.

Who would you prefer?

It's pretty obvious that he prefers Darnold.

bone has a good record w/qbs and I respect his opinion.

Personally, I prefer Rosen. Darnold panics under pressure. Misses some easy throws. Mechanics break down at times. Plays w/a superior team. Rosen is more accurate. Makes reads. Goes through progressions. Plays w/inferior talent.

I also suspect Darnold has small hands. He fumbles the ball way too much.

He has very good ball placement. He puts the ball in stride quite a bit. But he sure is bad against pressure.

I wonder how Darnold would look at UCLA and how Rosen would look at USC.

I respect your opinion on qbs, but I think you are putting too much importance on speculation when it comes to Rosen's character. And I do not think that is fair.

That's fair...........and my comment may have been more to others than you. I have read the "speculation" about Rosen's character. I just haven't seen many facts.

I haven't watched a lot of games by either player, but Darnold last year against Penn was a phenomenal performance. He looked the part, and he took over the game and won it. Very impressive. I recommend watching that game to anyone who wants to see "good" Darnold.

Also, I thought Rosen looked like a pure pro against UCLA. Everything about him that game smacked of future winning pro. It almost completely changed my mind on who should go off the board first.

I'm really torn by these two guys. I'm pretty sure I want one of them, but I'm not sure which. I also feel either would work for us. I do get apprehensive when I hear about Rosen's issues off the field and in the locker room. Those reports really bother me. I wonder how much "growing up" he can do, and how much is deeply ingrained in his personality. Darnold's issues are completely different. I wonder if he's trying to do too much this year with his diminished squad.

I want to look at more film on both guys, and of course issues should become clearer the closer we move to the draft and as we go through the combine and workouts.

Then there's Josh Allen... He might have the biggest upside of all three.

Allen is also eligible for the Senior Bowl because he is going to graduate.

I am not being snarky. But, am I missing something? What reports about Rosen?

I saw the hot tub thing. I say big deal.

I saw the comments about being paid. I say big deal.

I saw a bunch of speculation about his character, but no facts. I have not seen arrest reports. I have not seen drug use or alcohol abuse. I have not seen reports of him punching a woman. I have not seen reports of him grabbing his crotch in a game or flipping off other players. I have not seen opponents refusing to shake his hand. I have not seen opposing coaches accusing him of hitting another player in the head before a game. I have not seen reports of him stealing laptops from other students or cheating on academic exams.

So, I am obviously missing some of these "disturbing reports." Do any of you have links to him doing drugs, punching women, getting arrested, cheating on academic exams, raping women, etc.......???? Or, is it just speculative reports that "some people don't like him?"

Sam Darnold throws like Byron Leftwhich that dude is going to be a strip sack machine. Or, he could surprise everyone and be Philip Rivers? Seems liek the odds are against him. Especially with how bad he has played.

I really like Rosen and I think Darnolds throwing mechanics are trash.

Anyone else watching the USC/Stanford game that is on ESPN right now?

Yes. Was hoping to see Justin Reid play well, but he's looking like a 15+ yard lay up.

Thoughts on Darnold?

I watched a little and am going to watch more. I saw that 40 yard throw right on the money. He looks good to me and although I'm no scout I think he would look good in a Browns uniform.

I'm not really looking at him as I'm watching or trying to understand what's going on in the defensive backfield and I think he's staying another year. Nothing has really stood out to me besides him breaking the pocket a lot more than usual.

I kinda like this young Costello kid. He's a guy to keep an eye on moving forward.

Darnold is just picking on Reid.

Darnold does have a big windup to his throws. It kind of reminds me of McNabb.

I do like a lot of his game though. He doesn't look as good as last year, but doesn't have the same team around him as last year either.

I think Darnold makes plays. I think he has the physical attributes.

But, I am not all that impressed w/his overall game. He makes very good plays, but he makes a lot of bad plays. Poor mechanics, inconsistent accuracy, poor decisions.

I think he gets away w/a lot because USC has better athletes than other PAC 12 teams.

I think he has had a couple of very good games and one great game, but overall..........I am not all that impressed.

Not sure how people can think he is better than Rosen?

He kinda gives me Favre vibes.

Reminds me of Matthew Stafford w/worse mechanics when pressured.

That's still pretty good. But, not great.

I think that Rosen probably fits Hue's standard for a QB.

If Hue survives this off-season, think that he'll be our pick.

I highly doubt Darnold comes out this year. He'd be a good pick next year though.

I understand. I don't think I mentioned "disturbing" reports, but I was referring to reports written about NFL scouts & executive referring to his entitlement, and questions about desire and locker room chemistry. Honestly, I don't know what's true and what's not,just that I see these remarks and it makes me wonder if he can be a long-term solution. Also, they could be nothing more than misperceived maturity issues on the way to a brilliant career. I just don't know.

That is why, at least today, I would take Darnold over Rosen.

One thing that worries me a little about Rosen, character concerns aside, is I don't see much to work with. He's incredibly gifted as a natural thrower. His technique is almost bizarrely precise for such a young player. He's not quite Andrew Luck, but he's undoubtedly a pro-style quarterback with little assembly required. It makes it hard to project much upside.

Darnold is the opposite. He's raw, a little reckless, and clearly has a long way to go before he is everything he could be. I like that upside. I like being able to project potential with work puut in.

Rosen undoubtedly has a higher floor than Darnold. Darnold could be a bust, Rosen will at worst be a solid quarterback, but I'm not sure I ever see a top 5 quarterback from Rosen where as Darnold could damn well be Aaron Rodgers.

As I've said before, Daniel Jeremiah asked five NFL executives who they like more - Darnold or Rosen. He said it was unanimously Darnold, but three said in spite of Rosen being more polished, Darnold has the 'it' factor they covet. Rosen doesn't have 'it'.

It isn't just their play style, but I think Darnold is a much better personality fit in Cleveland.

Rosen is from a highly affluent family. Politically motivated liberals who can come across as rather ostentatious. He's got a diverse range of interest, from politics to theological perspectives. Identifies as an atheist who is curious about everything. He's also pro-ready, a drop back passer who is freakishly refined. He's a finesse passer who builds on rhythm and methodical drives. He doesn't like to get hit, he's not going to try run someone over trying to get an extra yard and his leadership qualities are questionable to be thrust on to a young roster. His ideal home is the Giants. New York and Rosen are made for each other, as a person and a passer.

Darnold is from a working class family and has played linebacker, wide receiver, quarterback and multiple positions in basketball. He's just an all-round sports freak who found a home at quarterback as a raw gunslinger and never looked back, carrying that mentality to this day. He plays with intuition, makes some amazing passes but also makes at least two or three "What the hell was he thinking?" kind of plays in each game I've watched. He will run over someone for an extra yard and he doesn't mind getting hit. This is a kid considering returning to college just to get better. He is more of a fit for Cleveland. We need that leader who is up for some heroics.

We don't need our pick to be pro-ready, either, he can learn behind Kizer if it's for three games or the year, but as our roster is growing, we've got a little time to invest in development if it puts the young QB in the best situation. I'm not sure Darnold will ever be a refined, polished quarterback, however. Not like Rosen is. But it is a little extra time to get it right. I think Kizer has done enough for a "What is best for Darnold" kind of situation.

That's just me. I'm a believer in the fit of style and personality. It's why we cherish Bernie Kosar. He wasn't just a good quarterback, he was the right quarterback for our team.

I think Darnold is the right quarterback, but I'm not so sure about Rosen.

j/c This could go in both threads but I'm just putting it here because it was top of the forum.

Experts say USC's Sam Darnold and UCLA's Josh Rosen are very different quarterbacks, but both have moxie to make it in NFL

by Sam Farmer

They reside on opposite sides of a storied college rivalry, with vastly different personalities and different ways of getting their jobs done.

But quarterbacks Sam Darnold of USC and Josh Rosen of UCLA could wind up in same place next spring — at or near the top of the NFL draft.

Just how much a dazzling new quarterback can mean to a franchise is on display this weekend as this city’s two NFL teams enter Week 4. The Rams are at Dallas, and the Chargers play host to Philadelphia. Three of the four starting quarterbacks in those games were products of the 2016 draft: Jared Goff of the Rams, Carson Wentz of the Eagles, and Dak Prescott of the Cowboys. Each has provided his team with varying degrees of hope.

Meanwhile, Rosen, a junior, and Darnold, a redshirt sophomore, could be on the verge of history. Only once in the past 50 years have quarterbacks from both schools been selected in the same draft — in 1989, UCLA’s Troy Aikman was taken No. 1 overall by Dallas, and USC’s Rodney Peete went in the sixth round to Detroit.

Should they decide to leave school early, Darnold and Rosen would be in the conversation as the top pick in the draft.

To get a better feel for how these quarterbacks might do in taking the step to the NFL, four professional observers who have a keen grasp of the topic gave their views:

An NFL team personnel executive who spoke on condition of anonymity so he could be as candid as possible on evaluations that are typically confidential.

Aikman, a Hall of Famer and Fox NFL color analyst, who knows Rosen particularly well.

Jordan Palmer, a former NFL quarterback and the brother of USC Heisman Trophy winner Carson Palmer, who was the No. 1 pick in 2003. Jordan Palmer specializes in coaching quarterbacks, among them Darnold, as well as preparing them for the draft.

Rick Neuheisel, the former UCLA coach and quarterback who is currently a CBS college football analyst and is very familiar with the styles and history of both quarterbacks.
For the purposes of this story, each source agreed to assess the situation in his own words.

NFL personnel executive

I really like Sam Darnold. He hasn’t been picture-perfect this year as far as accuracy and those types of things, but he’s made plays when the game’s on the line. He finds a way, even after not playing great for two or three quarters. When it comes down to making a play, he makes the play. That’s what you look for in a quarterback.

You can talk about the little bit longer delivery he has, and some mechanical flaws. But he’s got some incredible intangibles. That’s what you look for in a starting quarterback in the NFL. When Sam walks in the huddle, his teammates look at him and they know they have a chance to win, just because of him.

The Penn State game in the Rose Bowl put him over the top. It was like, “Wow, this guy is going to be special.” But you want to see consistency and a pattern of what this player has done throughout his career. He’s establishing himself as a player that can win when the game’s on the line.

Rosen is mechanically very sound. He’s got a tight, compact, easy delivery. The ball jumps off his hand. Great footwork in the pocket. He’s a very light-footed athlete and balanced. He seems to have good vision, but then he makes poor decisions. He forces balls sometimes and trusts his arm too much. He just takes some gambles that are not necessarily the smart play.

He can put the ball in harm’s way, but he can also make the big plays doing that. He’s got some gambler in him — some Jeff George, some Jay Cutler. He’s got all those same qualities, where he has all the physical tools. But he needs to become a more consistent, more disciplined football player.

The comeback against Texas A&M helped him a lot. As down as they were in that game, for him to keep slinging the ball, it says a lot about him. He is a risk taker and that’s going to be the style that he plays. Because he does trust his arm.

Darnold is going to be talked about as the No. 1 pick, and he has a choice. Does he want to come out? Does he want to play for the Jets or Colts or whoever it may be?

With Rosen, quarterback coaches are going to fall in love with him because he’s so mechanically sound. He’s a smart guy. He comes from a great family. A quarterback coach will say, “I can work with this guy.” Then they’re going to get the head coach involved, and the GM, and at some point you’re going to have to take a shot on a quarterback.

You’re not tied to the $20-million contracts of 10 years ago. You can afford to take a shot on a quarterback now and miss. Hurts, but in a quarterback-driven league, you’ve got to take some shots. So he’s one of those guys that I think will go fairly high if he does come out.

Aikman

I haven’t seen a lot of Sam Darnold, but I’ve seen Josh. Last summer, I was renting a place in Manhattan Beach, and I went up to campus and watched him work out with the receivers one afternoon, so I’ve seen him up close. I think he’s an amazing talent. He can really do it all. He’s smart, he’s athletic, has a really good arm and throws the ball well.

I just think for these guys, the more work they get in college the better opportunity they have to have success once they get into the NFL. The more games you can get under your belt, the better off you are. But if they opportunity is there, those are hard things to pass on as well.

With the comeback game against Texas A&M, I had just gotten married the day before. I had been in Santa Barbara, and I flew back to Dallas so I watched the game at my house here. I think that in some ways it’s certainly one of the measuring sticks for a quarterback, how he can rally a team when they’re behind. That was a huge win for the team.

Josh came in as a true freshman. I played a game as a true freshman at Oklahoma, and it wasn’t very pretty. I know what a challenge that can be for a young quarterback, and he came in and played really well by any measurement.

Coming into this season, I don’t know what Josh’s thoughts are. I know at one time when I visited with him, he said he was coming out after three years. I don’t know if that’s still the case. If that’s true, then obviously this is a big year for him, for someone who was banged up last year. I know he got off to a really good start with that win.

It’s very difficult to succeed right away in the NFL. I was 0-11 at the start of my rookie year. Unfortunately for these quarterbacks, being the No. 1 pick you’re going to bad teams. So you go to a situation where there’s a lot of expectations.

People are excited about your arrival. But generally you’re playing on a team where it’s simply a challenge to compete. And that first year, at least for me, there’s a lot of punishment that comes with that. You’re just trying to get through that first year, and so many of us have done it, without losing your confidence and believing that you can continue to develop. And eventually win, and win at a high level.

Whether it was myself or [John] Elway or Peyton [Manning]. You can go through a whole list of guys, it’s just part of the deal. There are very few guys that had the opportunity to go somewhere as the first pick and actually be on a team that can protect him and then also win football games at the same time.

Palmer

I met Sam when he was a sophomore in high school. I’m not going to say I saw anything special — he was tall and had a good arm — but it’s not like I left that day saying, “That kid’s next.” I just thought it was hilarious that he looked exactly like my brother did at that age. Same look, carried himself the same way, kind of wore the same outfit as Carson would at that age. He wasn’t even sniffing USC at the time. I just thought it was funny that a San Clemente kid totally reminds me of my brother, and that’s where the irony sets in, because now he really reminds me of my brother, except more athletic.

When Sam went to SC, there was an offseason where he came and threw with some quarterbacks I had in town. I think it was DeShaun Watson, Jared Goff, Christian Hackenberg, Joshua Dobbs, and J.T. Daniels, who was a seventh-grader. Sam came for the last day of it, and I was like, “Whoa.” Because now you got a chance to see it up against the other guys. That’s when we realized, OK, there’s really something special about Sam.

Sam is very humble. He’s a lot like my brother, personality-wise, in that people who don’t know him might say that he’s quiet. But if you know him, you’d never say he’s quiet. He’s very even-keeled, very mild-mannered on the outside. When you can maintain that when the pressure’s on, then it becomes a tremendous asset.

He’s like a duck on the water. Above the surface it’s very calm and peaceful, but underneath there’s a lot of effort and he’s going places. He processes a lot of things really quickly, makes quick decisions, and I don’t really ever see him allowing things like pressure or opinion affect his thought process. All that’s happening on the inside, and on the outside he’s just a cool California kid.

At the next level that will translate seamlessly. The difference between being an elite college quarterback and being a franchise quarterback is the amount of information that you’re expected to know, and processes that you’re expected to import, and the velocity at which you’re going to have to make decisions, all that stuff grows and accelerates. And it’s pretty significant.

Sam is in a really good position to make a seamless transition, when he wants to. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that he leaves early. When he decides that he’s ready to move on, whenever that is, then I think that he’s going to be well suited for a quick transition to the next level.

Neuheisel

Darnold’s physical traits aren’t overly impressive. But what is impressive is his ability to, number one, forget mistakes, and number two, to create. And he usually winds up on the right side of the ledger. He’s lost one game as a starter, and that was his first one. And if you go back to see what happened in that game, he actually hit a pass to secure victory but the offensive lineman was called for being downfield. I just think he’s got that magic.

Now when he gets dissected like the frog in sophomore biology, there will be lots of warts, in terms of does he have this or that. When he goes and throws against all the different guys in the combine — and it will be interesting to see if he does it — it’s not going to look the same. The GMs are going to say, “He doesn’t have that unique an arm.” But he’s got this kind of Tom Brady-ish ability to win games.

In the Rose Bowl, one of his impressive throws was just his ability to avoid a sack, jump up and throw the ball away.

There’s a lot of concern about the interceptions this year. To me, he’s a little bit enamored with Deontay Burnett. When I see the highlights, it looks to me like he’s trying to force it into No. 80, who’s a really talented receiver. So maybe that’s why he’s got a little bit more in the way of interceptions.

If Rosen and Darnold were in a throwing contest, they’d call the fight. It wouldn’t go the distance. Rosen’s arm is way more talented. I’ll bet he’d have a higher score on his SAT, and in a political discourse he’d have opinions that you’d marvel at given his age.

But Josh’s issue is going to be his personality. When he doesn’t think you know what you’re talking about, he ain’t afraid to tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about. That bothers a bunch of the proletariat in scouting circles. If you have something to offer, he’s going to devour it.

You watch the fourth quarter of the Texas A&M game, and you see NFL throw after NFL throw after NFL throw. Doing it against the odds. And yeah, he got lucky. He tried to throw one away and it was a touchdown pass. But we see that every weekend in the NFL. What we saw was him putting the ball on the money time after time.

He doesn’t have a Dez Bryant to throw to. He doesn’t have a Julio Jones to throw to. He’s making it work with the guys he has.

He said a very mature thing after the game at Memphis. He said, “I’ve got to stop playing hero ball.” Because given what happened against Texas A&M, he had to throw those balls down the field. You don’t have to throw that ball across your body against Memphis. To me, that’s a sign of maturity. I think he’s going to be sensational.

I think he’s got a unique skill set. And you’re talking to a guy who didn’t want him to have it. Because my kid [Jerry] was competing against him, my kid was trying to win the job. I wanted to find things I didn’t like. But he has every throw.

Link

I would take either with the 1st pick and be very happy with whichever one they choose, but they have to take the QB with that first pick. Cannot pass on either of these potential franchise QBs in my opinion.