DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office...cont....

So you're saying Hue has no blame in this?

He isn't man enough to admit Kessler, RGIII, and Kizer were all the FO fault he had no opinion before they were signed?

No, I am not saying that Hue has no blame in all of this.

I am saying that guys like you who put ALL the blame on Hue and who defend the FO on every issue are full of crap.

Is that clear enough?

I never posted anytime all the blame is on Hue, if you go to the K9 forum I said was equal blame on all even the players.

Okay. I apologize. I missed that. I was just going by the articles you post. Very pro-FO and anti-Hue. But, if I am wrong...........I apologize.

Vambo,
This is for you and others. How can you really evaluate the job of the coach when the FO is not putting talent on his team? Think about this, what other team accepts a WR OUT OF REHAB and he is starting that WEEK??? Hell, right now JG is the best WR on the team, and he JUST LEFT REHAB!!.. That is just a remarkable statement!!

The start of this was to build a team that would win consistently for decades not just a year or two.

Develop players from the draft re-sign FA from your team and sign from other teams that fit the type of team your are building.

We all knew it wasn't going to happen in a year or two, so I don't care who coaches who is in the FO who the players are or what school they played for JUST WIN!

1, there is a lot of talent on this team. 2, a fresh out of rehab JG would be a lot of team's best WR. 3, Our receivers would better with better QB play.

Mac, I ask you to pay a litle attention on the next game, on how the CBs cover our Wr's. Its the same QB throwing the ball...

You will notice that Gordon is playing with a cushion that makes it possible for Kizer to have easy completions.

No other Wr's have it....

Viable Wr's are instrumental for QB success, unless you have a very mobile QB that can buy time for your Wrs or take off for some yards or running game and feed on the PA.

Mac, did you see the posts from folks that were actually at the game yesterday? I think every one of them said that the receivers were running open all day and DK just couldn't get them the ball.

You crack me up. Go look at all of our third round picks since 1999 and tell me what wonderful odds there is of Coleman developing into as good a player as Schwartz is.

You keep talking but refuse to look at how our third round picks have panned out to try to keep your expectations grounded.

And yes, since Joe Thomas doesn't need any help on his side, that frees up players to help Coleman. Sorry you keep trying to prop up a losing proposition.

I don't like Gordon, not the player but the person....

But its clear that Gordon would make a difference, Coleman not so much. He immediately commanded more respect than any of our Wr's did...

Gordon provides the big play threat and the easy completions, which is something that can help a struggling QB.

What if they are open, but not when it mattered? I also saw Tom Brady missing some open receivers....

I saw Gordon getting open sometimes, but there was no way Kizer could ever think he would beat his defender... its not usual here...

I also continued to see our receivers playing without cushions, with the exception of Gordon, and I continue to see our receivers being redirected by CB's...

The only receiver I see winning the release is Gordon, and that is fundamental for Kizer.

You cannot ask a rookie QB to scan all the field all the time. Receivers must be open when the play design requires them to be open, and to provide a passing lane when Qb's are buying time, if you can do that, you are of little use to the QB.

I honestly think many times our Wr's are open because their game awareness is so little that they don't even understand the play is over.

Consistency is the key... beating cover has to be the norm not the exception.

A problem with Kizer is I don't think he knows where to put the ball. I have heard on here and from other places how amazing the throw to Gordon down the sideline was...it wasn't. It was grossly under-thrown. Gordon had his man beat, and he had his man beat on another throw that was awfully under-thrown. Kizer does a horrible job leading his receivers and putting the ball where it needs to be.

Quarterbacks are going to make bad throws but Kizer is consistently bad. If we had a quarterback who could actually throw accurately, Gordon could have easily scored 2-3 touchdowns Sunday. The dude is a freak with his athleticism, size, and speed! He is open deep on almost every play. He's virtually unstoppable except for his quarterback.

Coleman may have seen 4 targets Sunday, but how many were catchable? This is where stats skew things. 4 targets, 0 catches, he must suck, right? So, Duke caught 2 of 4 passes for 10 yards Sunday so he must suck, too right? Gordon was targeted 11 times and only caught 4, so he must suck too, right?

You guys and your misuse of stats is a bit ridiculous. Our problem is and has always been quarterback. We are going to be very very good when we fill that void in the upcoming draft...

Were you at the game or do you have the all-22? Because you can't see most of that on regular broadcasts. The people that were at the game are very knowledgeable posters here. To be clear, I was referencing yesterday's game only, not the body of work by the shoddy wr corp that's been taking the field most of the season.

http://nfltraderumors.co/john-dorsey-expected-hot-gm-candidate-giants-browns-options/

John Dorsey Expected To Be “Very Hot” GM Candidate, Giants & Browns Options?
Nate Bouda 24 hours ago Browns, Giants Leave a comment

According to Jason La Canfora, former Chiefs GM John Dorsey is expected to be a “very hot” candidate for GM vacancies in the coming weeks.

La Canfora mentions that the Browns and Giants among others are expected to inquire about Dorsey.

The Giants are the first to have a GM opening now that they’ve made the decision to fire long-time GM Jerry Reese on Monday. Overall, the Giants’ job should be pretty attractive to top candidates, considering that they do have talent to build around and will end up with a top-three draft pick that they can use on a quarterback of the future.

As for the Browns, reports have said for months now that they could bring in a proven NFL executive with a history of finding talent to add to their front office, so you can expect to hear of a number of names being linked to them in the coming months.

Dorsey, 57, was hired as the Chiefs GM back in 2013 and paired him with HC Andy Reid. However, the Chiefs surprisingly fired Dorsey this summer, even though he had done a pretty good job in terms of player acquisition.

Reports later surfaced that there were concerns about regarding his internal communication and management styles.

During his four years with the Chiefs, Dorsey’s teams had a record of 43-21 (67.2 percent), which includes three playoff appearances.

If I can recall,most of the references were to Gordon. Now considering it was the first game they ever played together, and that the practice time was very small, you cannot blame a QB for missing those plays.

And yes, for the first time I saw Kizer miss on an open receiver... Gordon

What I saw in other games were receivers open but after being beaten by the CB, most of the times pushed to the paint where a completion is almost impossible.

Consistency is key, and that's one of the thing we have been lacking here for ages.

I think we all saw the difference with Gordon, unfortunately for me that don't like him, but it is crystal clear....

Well, seeing as this front office has been drafting for the last two years. Pretty good. They have been doing pretty well with their mid round picks and Coleman is farther along than Schwartz was in his first year.

It's been known to happen. Hall of Famers Art Shell and Jackie Slater were both 3rd rounders. The odds of Coleman becoming a decent RT are pretty good in my opinion.

That open mind of yours, that you said you had, seems pretty made up already with less than a year's worth of starts under Coleman's belt.

Yep, Dorsey will be mentioned a lot this offseason. Here are some more names I've seen mentioned. This list comes in response to Jerry Reese being fired so I'm bumping some very Giants-centric names to the bottom of the list. Phil friggin' Simms?
2018 GM Candidates

By James Kratch | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Posted December 04, 2017 at 04:09 PM

Ex-Panthers GM Dave Gettleman
The former Panthers general manager, who spent 14 years with the Giants, would be a popular name if he wants back in (he will be 67 in February). He has a Super Bowl team on his resume and would give the Giants an immediate public relations boost. Gettleman could also help the Giants get back to their traditional identity of strong line play and power football.

ESPN analyst Louis Riddick
The current ESPN analyst played in the NFL for eight years and was a scout and front office executive for the Eagles and Redskins. The Quakertown, Pennsylvania, has been connected to open jobs in recent years, and it seems inevitable he will get back in the game at some point. He said in February he was set to be part of a package deal with Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels in San Francisco, but McDaniels decided to stay in New England.

Patriots VP of player personnel Nick Caserio
The Patriots' vice president of player personnel, the belief is Caserio will be very picky and tough to get away from the Pats. That being said, the Giants may be too attractive a setup for Caserio to resist. Especially if he can convince McDaniels to come with him.

Ravens assistant GM Eric DeCosta
The Ravens' assistant GM is believed to be locked in Baltimore, waiting to take over for Ozzie Newsome. But the Giants would be the type of team that could take a swing.

Packers director of football operations Eliot Wolf
The son of Hall of Famer Ron Wolf, many expect Eliot Wolf to transition from the Packers' director of football operations to general manager when Thompson retires. But if Green Bay, or Wolf, have other plans?

Ex-Chiefs GM John Dorsey
The recently-fired Chiefs GM built a heck of a team in Kansas City, but he apparently rubbed some the wrong way before losing a power struggle with Andy Reid. Dorsey is from Maryland and went to UConn, but is he bound to go back to Green Bay and replace Ted Thompson?

Ex-Redskins personnel man Scot McCloughan
The former 49ers, Redskins and Seahawks executive is arguably the best talent evaluator in the NFL. He also brings personal baggage to the table. If the Giants were to roll the dice, they would likely need a multi-man front office power structure with a clearly-defined role for McCloughan.

Falcons assistant GM Scott Pioli
Pioli is an interesting candidate. He's a New York state native and Syracuse grad. He was instrumental in the start of the Patriots' run. He has Bill Belichick and Bill Parcells ties. He worked with the Jets. He's had a career revitalization in his current spot as the Falcons' assistant general manager. But when he was in charge in Kansas City, it was complete chaos. There may be too much baggage for the Giants to give him control.

Bengals director of player personnel Duke Tobin
The Bengals' director of player personnel has built a strong roster (although things are beginning to fade) in a less-than-orthodox Cincinnati franchise setup.

Vikings assistant GM George Paton
The Vikings assistant GM has been in the mix for jobs before, and he should be again given Minnesota's strong season to date despite losing quarterback Sam Bradford.

Giants interim GM Kevin Abrams
The Giants' now-former assistant general manager has been with the team for 16 seasons, and is considered an expert salary cap manager. If the Giants wanted to switch up their scouting system but keep Abrams as the leader of the front office, it could be an option.

Giants draft boss Marc Ross
The Giants' vice president of player evaluation and draft boss has taken almost as much heat from fans as Reese, but he has played a big role in some of the Giants' biggest personnel successes of late, including Odell Beckham Jr. and Landon Collins. Ross is also very good with the media - he only speaks to reporters during the NFL Draft, but his press briefings are extremely informative. Ross has been on many GM interviews, but has yet to land a top chair job.

NFL analyst Phil Simms
The Giants would have to construct a strong personnel department behind their former star quarterback if they were to make this surprise leap and make Simms a first-time GM. But it's not as crazy as it may seem at first. Simms has been around the NFL's brightest minds and best teams for 20 years as an analyst, he'd be excellent in the role of the team's front-facing front office voice and he would generate excitement in a fan base that will be in need of a pick-me-up after this disastrous season. Simms lives in New Jersey and has the energy to do the job, and do it well.

Is this the Browns list also?

That tells me everything I need to know about what you believe the odds of success are.

Yep just unquote all the facts and your argument still slides.

No, actually you seem to be the one who thinks you can let a pro bowl RT go, then draft a 3rd rounder and BINGO, you fixed it! lmao

And you say my argument is flawed? Are you even reading what you're posting?

Can I raise my hand on this one?

Who is this pro bowl RT you speak of?

As of right now, it's a very strong likelihood that Schwartz will be a pro bowler this year. Just in case you haven't been keeping up. In fact, it's almost a lock.

Oh, Schwartz. So we actually didn't let a pro bowl RT go...

When he makes the pro bowl this year, and he will, he will be a pro bowl RT we let go.

Yes and not editing out all the parts that kill your argument like you just did.

Was Art Shell drafted in the third round or was he not? Jackie Slater?

Those are Hall of Famers, not one time second team Pro Bowl selections.

You are aware that we only spent a 2nd rounder on Schwartz to begin with right? So it's possible in round two and impossible in round 3?

It is just killing you that Coleman is doing a pretty good job isn't it? If he fell flat on his face your rant would be so much easier.

The truth is that once a guy is on the team, where he was drafted doesn't matter much besides the amount of time he gets to prove himself. The truth is the only teams that draft a RT in the first round either have a left handed QB or drafted the RT to play LT and it didn't work out. The truth is that Coleman is looking pretty good as a rookie and it's killing you.

First, Shon Coleman isn't a rookie. This is his second year. If he wasn't good enough to start as a rookie, don't blame me. Secondly, he isn't playing well.

He has eleven penalties in twelve games. Good?

If he were actually playing well this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion. You see, I know it's "possible" that he can become a good player. I also know that the odds are he won't. And with 11 penalties this year, it isn't looking good.

you are being ridiculous to win a stupid argument about a guy who has been gone for two years! Coleman was hurt last year and could not get on the field til the end of the year. He is our right tackle and has done well for his first year on the field.

Again with the heavy editing...

Those pesky facts getting in the way?

Browns sign safety Justin Currie to their practice squad.

Justin Currie rejoins the Browns after being waived last week.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2017/12/5/...-practice-squad

The Cleveland Browns announced they signed defensive back Justin Currie to their practice squad. In a corresponding move, they released wide receiver Rannell Hall from the squad.

Currie, a 6-foot-2, 212-pound safety out of Western Michigan was waived last week to make room for Josh Gordon’s return to the team’s active roster.

The rangy safety spent the entire offseason with the Browns, the first four weeks on the season on their practice squad, and he appeared in one game for them this season. Currie was signed to the team’s active roster on November 21 following Emmanuel Ogbah and Jamie Meder’s season-ending injuries.

He finished his career at Western Michigan with 340 tackles, nine sacks, five interceptions, 15 passes defensed, and three forced fumbles.

You sure do have a strange way of rating players. If penalties makes him terrible so be it, but there's a lot of other tackles who you think are "not good" that are in the hall of fame.

j/c:


https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/938084383990435847

He absolute loves Baker Mayfield. If the Browns get McLoughan, we know who the first overall selection is.

Can't say I'd hate it, either. The more I watch Mayfield, the more I like that kid.

J/C

That Houston pick is currently 8th overall, tied with Tampa at 4-8. At 3-9 currently reside Chicago, Denver and Indy.

Colts vs Bills.
Buccaneers vs Lions.
49ers vs Texans.
Bears vs Bengals.
Jets vs Broncos.

Depending on the results of these games, we could be tied up for the #4 selection. If the 49ers do beat the Texans, they'll only be one loss ahead. It isn't unrealistic that we could end up with the #1 and #3 selections.

As much as the losing is getting to me, it is exciting to wonder what might happen if we end up with some highly valuable selections.

Right now - I'm starting to feel Rosen/Mayfield/Darnold (I don't know who yet, I like them all) and Minkah Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick has 'Elite FS' written all over him, which would also help maximise the Peppers selection by putting him at his more natural SS, which would also let him play up in the box.

I remember when Dep and others blasted you for saying the FO would be held accountable for passing on Wentz. Their argument was that it was a great move and that the FO would never be questioned.

Sorry Pit, turns out they were right. The FO isn't getting any flak from them. It's ALL Hue's fault!

Arguing w/those guys is fruitless. They aren't interested in playing fair. They pollute the board daily.

Vambo,


When you take that route, you only really hit on a 40-50% clip of your draft picks. And BTW, we have NOT been that active in FA, so the FO has to step it up.

We knew it was not going to be a year or two but people think that fielding a team of rookies and 2nd yr players = wins..NOPE..

Going on the path the Browns chose means alot of losing, as we are seeing now.