DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jimmy Haslam confirms Hue Jackson to return in 2018

I would love love love to hear about this logic and these facts you speak of!

Agree. Totally in favour of keeping Hue but he handled this appallingly IMO. Be interesting if his players play as hard for him these last 4 games as they have until now. Whilst it's true that we are deficient in talent on O, the dude almost wholeheartedly disassociated himself from it and them when he had an opportunity for leadership and personal accountability. "Hey, I didn't want a coordinator as these guys suck and I didn't want him fired on their account and I know I can't win with them either because Sashi"

Ouch.

On the leaks, you wanna know what's going on in Berea re Hue? Ask Silver. End of.

Dude better improve this stuff. He's certainly on notice and if Dorsey provides the talent on what's already been built with all this offseason potential then old mate got nowhere to hide.

It doesn't seem right that a coach would be willingly part of a plan that puts him at 1-31. I'm sure they thought they MIGHT win a few but still...think about it. These guys have monster egos and their records are their resumes. Just seems out of place. Play/plan to lose has been a giant disservice to the fans, city and players IMO.

I think some people [not you] are making way too much out those comments. I get that their butt-hurt due to Sashi being fired, but they are reaching for new ways to attack Hue.

The roster was blown up and we had a ton of very young and inexperienced guys playing in significant roles. The key word isn't "suck." The key words are "young and inexperienced." Do you think the players didn't realize that fact? LOL

I bet the players continue to play hard for Hue. Would you like to take that bet?

I just posted this in another thread. I think his words are being twisted/misunderstood. He threw no one under the bus. His team will still hustle hard for him, top down.

Y’all can view it that way.

I view it another way. Hue knew the team was trash, and didn’t want to bring in an OC who was gonna have to be the scapegoat when crap was guaranteed to go south.

Which it did, back to back seasons.

So I understand what he did. If he hires an OC, we have the same trash record, and the OC ends up being the fall guy, then Hue would essentially be ruining a guy’s career over what was guaranteed to be a bad season.

SOMEBODY HAD TO GO this season. So I get why hue didn’t make some poor dude the sacrificial lamb on the football team, as a a coach who is the OC getting fired on the bad team doesn’t have a reasonable chance of ever becoming an OC again.

So all the heat went on to Hue and Sashi. Not Hue, Sashi, and whatever poor OC we had that fans and the media would’ve placed the blame on first.

I see the Hue wanted Wentz narrative come up now, and it perturbs me how people overlook the "he thought 2 was too high part." Seeing as how the Eagles were trading up to 2 for Wentz, isn't thinking 2 was too high the equivalent of "not wanting" Wentz at that point?

I also find the he didn't want the OC to look bad argument unlikely. I feel like he didn't trust anyone else with "his baby" is more probable. My less trusting side wonders if he wanted to make firing him more difficult due to a lack of likely replacements at OC. One could argue Saunders, but his loyalty to Hue seems pretty high and is at a point in his career where he's not trying to climb higher.

This coming year Hue will get fired whether there is a replacement lined up or not if they perform poorly. Might as well add an OC, even if it means sharing the credit. I also wonder if Haslam is still meddling and made his continued support contingent on an OC being added.

Hue's interview came off strange.

I was/am for keeping him. But I have to wonder what's been going on behind closed doors.

I feel it would be a lot better for Hue if he hired an OC. He has too much on his plate and needs to delegate some responsibility. Also, an OC would help with the development of our young players. We'll have even more after our next draft.

I agree; it wasn't very convincing. I have no idea whether it was a "trust" issue, or ego/control thing...doesn't matter. Who knows if JD and Hue can work together, but in spite of Haslam's proclamation, I believe that Hue may be on a short leash...

Thank God Sashi is gone and Hue is still here. Maybe you can follow Sashi to his next team? Oh wait, there won't be one.

So now that you lost the battle, you're trying to put a negative label on those who support Hue. How noble of you. lmao

I don't get your love for Hue. I was in the camp that they all should stay and we should add a proper GM or Football Czar. Was hoping Peyton Manning was coming, but even that would have been just grasping at straws.

I like the addition of Dorsey, but I have to admit that I really liked a lot of thing that Sashi done. I can't say that I've liked much of what Hue has done so far though, although I still think he can be a good HC.

So I'm curious why you feel the way you do about Sashi and Hue.

I can't speak for Vers but I do agree with him and I can give you my reasoning.

Some people were happy that we went strong on D in the draft. It's a fine plan because most old school football coaches and fans will tell you that defense wins championships. And yes, our D has improved.

But that is a one sided approach. We way overpaid for Corey Coleman in a poor WR draft class. To add insult to injury, we took mid round draft picks from that same very poor WR draft class. That wasn't lost on the fans. Many of us were and have been vocal about it. It's like Sashi threw darts at the WR's in that draft and said, "There ya go. There's five bodies for you."

And look at the QB selections. Kessler in round three? Talk about over investing. NOBODY had him CLOSE to being rated that highly. Then he turns around and selects the fourth QB taken last year? He passed on Wentz?

It's quite plain that Haslam gave Sashi priority #1 to draft a franchise QB. Sashi bombed at it. He bombed at pretty much everything he attempted to do with helping the offense in the draft. Njoku may pan out well but he's still raw. Hopefully he will continue to develop.

To me I believe that Haslam saw what many of us saw as well. Hue was handcuffed on O. While some talent has been added via the draft, most all of it was on D. Our O simply doesn't have the talent to put points on the board.

So I'm not so sure many fans are sold on Hue as the long term HC of this team. I know I'm not. But what I am sure of is that he's had zero opportunity to succeed with the talent he has been afforded on the O side of the ball. None. So I certainly advocate that he be given the talent to succeed with before he gets cast aside.

I really believe that's what most fans that support Hue desire here. I've seen too many times where the HC has been the scapegoat for a FO that hasn't given them a team they can win with. Some fans keep talking about how much talent we have. When it comes to the O, we don't. The fans complain about his play calling. But with this roster, I think the best chance we may have of a win is doing the opposite of what your opponent expects.

I think all some of us are asking is give him at least a chance to succeed before you throw him out. Something he certainly hasn't had to this point.

Sashi is gone for two reasons...1) not only failing to land a QB but actually purposely passing on several and 2) creating more holes than plugs on a sinking ship by not resigning guys like Schwartz and Gipson.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Hue...and he strikes me as a snake oil salesman...Sashi simply could not be trusted with next year's draft. I'm fine with that. Trusting Sashi with next year's draft made me incredibly nervous.

Some thought Sashi hadn't had much of a chance to succeed either and a longer time frame was part of the plan.

Hue's the guy who fell in love with RG3 and thought 2 was too high for Wentz, so he should share some of the blame for his lack of a QB.

Why did we need to scapegoat either of them?

I don't love Hue. Heck, I was getting blasted when he first came here and I had some criticisms and questions about him.

I've defended him for a couple of reasons.

1. I don't think he was as responsible for our record as the FO. The FO/owner made a plan and it was to blow up the roster. They even admitted it was a "multi-year plan."

2. I thought Hue was unfairly being blamed for our losses this year. I got sick of reading all the posts about him being fired. I got tired of people overlooking that it was the FO/owner who are the ones who formulated the "plan." I knew the criticism would come because you just can't lose that many games w/out people assigning blame, but it was still annoying.

3. I wanted continuity over everything else. My sig even said something like "No more firings for at least 3 full years." When the JG and AJ fiascos went down during the bye week, I thought Sashi would be fired, but Haslam kept quiet. I was okay w/everyone staying provided that the FO and coaching staff could work together.

4. In the end, Sashi was fired. If one of them had to go, I thought that the Haslam's chose the right man. It sounds like Dorsey is going to keep the analytics guys and the players don't have to endure learning an entirely new scheme and everything else that goes w/a coaching change. Thus, I think that continuity has been achieved and that is very important.

That's not me "loving Hue." That is not me being "Hue's mom." That is not me being Hue's "fanboy." That is me thinking this is what is best for the Cleveland Browns and it is also me sick of listening to all the vicious attacks he endured and is enduring by some of the posters on here.

So when Hue is fired you can say I told you so. Brilliant!

What?

And I don't blame them if they feel that way. But passing on Wentz and Watson, combined with watching our FA's walk, creating more holes than addressing sealed his fate with the only people who really matter. The owners.



Here's where we disagree. It seems to me that Hue has publicly supported every QB this FO has signed or drafted. Do you really believe he loved them all? I certainly don't. I mean what do you expect him to do? Say that his QB sucks and that the FO failed? That's not going to happen. It's part of a coaches job to support his players.

And you may need to check your facts about Wentz. It was the FO who came out and said that they didn't see Wentz as a top 20 QB, not Hue. I believe what you are stating is one of those things that simply get repeated over and over again until people accept them as fact. I've never heard Hue say anything about Wentz.



If you view his firing as that then so be it. I think it was a simple lack of faith from the ownership going into next years draft whether that's something you agree with or not is a different story.

We get into these back-and-forths without knowing what really happened and who/whom backed who/whom. It's no big deal because the info we have is extremely limited...so it is what it is.

I posted awhile back that Jimmah knows the QB evaluations of both Hue and the FO...for better or worse. Apparently he was ok with whatever role Hue had in that process...also apparently Jimmah is ok with the non-Sashi people in the FO as well because they are all still here (for now anyway).

So Jimmah replaced a guy who was put into a situation where he wasn't really/fully 'in charge' but had the "final" tie-beaking say on players without ever being a talent evaluator. I mean..c'mon...what could possibly go wrong with that set-up. So now we move on...with a guy much better suited for the role Jimmah wants filled. It makes sense. The kumbaya experiment didn't work. We may be better off for it. I certainly hope so.

I actually think Sashi has his own skill set that may land him another NFL job. But he was given way too much responsibility here that he had far too little experience in. I don't really blame Sashi for that part of the equation.

No doubt. Sashi wasn't experienced in dealing with these types of personnel decisions. He also wasn't experienced with dealing with a guy like Hue in the talent evaluation-arena. (Not that I think Hue is good at it though.) Think about Hue being willing to give up a 2nd & 3rd for McCarron. How much cred could a guy like Sashi get from a HC who would make THAT trade?

Sashi was put in a rough situation. Jimmah is the one who "failed" here...not Sashi. He will get a job as a lawyer when he wants...he won't be the tie-breaker guy anymore in NFL player evaluations...nor should he. Sashi is the fall guy and he took his bullet like a man. I wish I could say the same for Hue's dodging the bullet.

Hue was talking up RG3 before we signed him and was the driving force behind the move.



Link

Here's the link to Hue's mouthpiece tweeting that Hue liked Wentz, but not at 2. And an additional clarification.

Link
Link 2

It seems to keep trying to blame Hue for the draft selections and FA signings of Sashi.

That doesn't seem to line up with Hue wanting more say in the draft process.

No, it's more you either want the "GM" to listen to the coach or not. Not listening to him makes little sense. So, I think Hue should shoulder at least some of the blame-at least for the decisions he was clearly either actively involved in or in agreement with.

I'm fine with Hue staying, some of you are just acting like he should be getting fitted for a gold jacket which drives me crazy.

Hue's not an innocent bystander. He's in it, too.

Hue deserves more time, but he better show some results.

And we are off to the races again. Glad we have this guy. Good for Hue, but buy him a clock manager for next year. Maybe the OC can handle that for him.

Hue's hands are not clean in this or our losses. Don't own up in the clubhouse for reporters.
Own it in staff, with the new GM, and get help with red zone and clock. Some people just worry about scoring TD's and that keeps 'em pretty much busy. Let's lock down stuff this year. Might be mistaken for continuity . . . .

I'm fine with Hue staying as well. I was hoping all along that we kept him. Hue will show results when he gets more of what the good coaches already have; players with more experience and players at skill positions with more talent. Any coach you could name would have trouble winning in the situation Hue was put in. Any coach. The one thing Hue did that hurt him was not having an OC. He's got too much on his plate IMO. That's one thing he should do for next year; hire an OC.

Happy birthday bro.

I agree. He deserves a chance to prove what he can do w/a competitive roster.

The amount of whining, crying, and hateful posts directed towards Hue by a handful of posters is sickening. Like a bunch of spoiled babies who were just told "no" for the first time.

Lost what battle?

You are going to look pretty stupid when Hue gets canned between Week 16 and 4 games in to next season.

You guys are right, Sashi's inexperience did him in. He didn't have the experience to realize that Hue was wrong about his assessment of Wentz. Sounds like Hue had all the say and input he could have wanted in the organization.

Hue sticking around these last 4 weeks is nothing more than a band aid to get us through the end of the season.

Nothing more.

LOL............how do you look right now? You were talking about Hue being fired and Sashi staying. How did that turn out for you and again..........how do you look?

You're being awfully dramatic.

LOL............I take it you haven't been reading their garbage?

I love the one that if the Browns win a couple of games they will be doing it for the new GM and it is another black eye for Hue.

Gee, that isn't dramatic.

Now, run over to the Cavs thread and tell us how old and slow they are.

That was really bad timing.

Cleveland Browns: Hue Jackson lays out why he’s a terrible coach

https://nflspinzone.com/2017/12/08/cleveland-browns-never-hue-jackson-fault/

by Peter Smith2 hours ago

Hue Jackson, the master of telling on himself, admitted today that he’s a horrible coach for the Cleveland Browns that only knows how to do things one way.

A day after getting Sashi Brown fired and his new general manager, John Dorsey, was hired, Hue Jackson admitted why the Cleveland Browns are in the state they are. Jackson, in what is becoming a weekly tradition of embarrassing press conference moments, when asked what he wanted from his new general manager, answered that the new GM “told him his goal is tor bring him the players that fit the coaches,” per Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com.

The head coach of an NFL football team needs to get players to fit him. In a league filled with coaches adjusting to their players almost on the fly, Jackson is admitting flat out he can’t. And this has been pretty clear year with his mishandling of DeShone Kizer. Instead of catering the offense to his rookie quarterback, Hue demanded the rookie adjust to him. And when it failed, Hue panicked, buried Kizer and tried to go trade for A.J. McCarron.

So while people watch Kizer struggle out there every week, many have criticized the now former head of the Browns personnel department, Sashi Brown, for not picking Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson. Jackson is admitting that he wouldn’t have adjusted and simply didn’t want Watson, which was already known, but people like to conveniently forget.

Unfortunately, Watson suffered a season-ending knee injury, but Bill O’Brien in Houston completely transformed his offense to fit Watson. This included any number of concepts Watson used at Clemson and more collegiate offensive plays, which resulted in huge results. Hue would’ve made Watson play the same, traditional style pocket passer he’s had for Kizer and it would’ve been a disaster, which is why Jackson didn’t want Watson.

The Eagles offensive staff, including their head coach, offensive coordinator and quarterback coach, all former quarterbacks, met Wentz halfway. They certainly had some of their more traditional NFL concepts, but they incorporated things that Wentz did at North Dakota State to ease the transition. This is a big reason Jackson preferred Jared Goff out of Cal.

Speaking of Goff, a big reason the second year quarterback has had such a terrific second year is new head coach Sean McVay has done a lot to help Goff. Notably, Most notably. McVay is calling his audibles for him, but again, where Jeff Fisher just dumped him into the NFL and he struggled, McVay went back and helped him get more comfortable.

Andy Reid, who has had a ton of success in the NFL with two different franchises and went to a Super Bowl, changed his offense this season to fit around Alex Smith better. They incorporated a ton of run, pass options and different ways to create offense and points. It produced a ton early in the year and has fallen off the second part of the year. Even Reid, who also handed off play calling duties to his offensive coordinator Matt Nagy, is still working, still adjusting to a veteran quarterback that’s been in the NFL for over a decade to try to improve their offense.

Bill Belichick, the coach with a fistfull of rings, changed his offense to fit around a rookie Jacoby Brissett when Jimmy Garoppolo was injured and Tom Brady suspended. The smartest coach in the NFL knew better than to try to ask Brissett to be Brady. He saw what he could do and couldn’t do planned around it, enabling the New England Patriots to win as many football games as Jackson has in almost two years.

The famed West Coast, or Ohio offense, was born out of necessity. Bill Walsh didn’t plan on it. He was forced to come up with when his starting quarterback, Greg Cook, went down to injury and he had to adapt around backup Virgil Carter who was smart, accurate and could move. They found a way to win with what they had and it changed the game. That’s what great coaches do.

Hue Jackson is admitting he can’t do this, won’t do it and has shown he wouldn’t know how if he tried. Jackson is saying he has to have a specific quarterback, great pocket passer. And if that doesn’t happen, he can’t function to the tune of 1-27. And when things go bad, he panics and will scratch and claw his way into blaming anyone else for his own inadequacies.

No level of football is beyond a coach adjusting to the talent on the roster, but particularly the NFL where careers are so fleeting. If Jackson gets Josh Rosen out of UCLA (clearly who he’ll favor) and Rosen were to get injured or is ineffective as a rookie, Jackson will panic and try to do something stupid again. He did it for Carson Palmer in Oakland and crippled their franchise for a few years. He tried to do it for A.J. McCarron in Cleveland in a move that would’ve been a disaster.

Jackson, the man who thinks of himself as some sort of quarterback coaching deity, knows no other way, won’t adjust to a quarterback and has clearly shown why he’s ill-equipped to be the head coach of the Browns or any other team. In a game that is constantly evolving, even in the midst of a single season, Hue Jackson insists on being a dinosaur. They went extinct as did this style of coaching and it’s absurd that this could continue into 2018.

Well, this is definitely a good spin, hence the website name.

Ouch! That is harsh.