DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Sashi Brown fired

Whoa there big guy...

LOL

*LOL* ... stock up on grape bro ....

I agree haden is a shadow of his old self .. when we cut him i said he’d be 3rd or 4th best on our team ... BUT HE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN CUT ...

And Taylor has proven me wrong .. haden wold be our 2nd best CB as Tylos has SUCKED more than Haden ... but thats hindsight and i’m Not a big hindsight guy ..

FACT IS I said it was a bad cut back then ...

And bro .. his TOTAL COMP. for the year is about as relevant as Sashi’s say in personal matters today ... the ONLY # that matters is what we SAVED IN CAP space by cutting him ... that # is 4 million ... witch is CHUMP CHANGE, especially to us ..

That BS didn’t float then and its not anymore buoyant today ...

I wanted to break this up:

You said this above about Sashi:



Then followed that up with this:



So you think Hue was "covering" for Sashi when you just said that Sashi only gets involved when there is no consensus. So...Hue basically was "covering" for a decision made by the "football guys" - as they then must have been the ones who wanted Kessler and are the ones that Sashi sided-with in that tie-breaker instance.

Did the FO ever come out and " cover" a bad decision when Sashi sided-with Hue over the desires of the football guys? Or did those guys simply keep their dirty laundry in-house and get back to work? We will never know because the FO guys didn't back-channel leaks to the media.

There is no doubt that the optics are odd/poor in having a non-football, lawyer be the tie-breaker. But...I agree with you that THAT is on Jimmah. It was his idea. It's not Sashi's fault that Jimmah wanted Sashi to be that guy.

Now we have a football guy as tie-breaker...but it sounds like he will be in control of the roster - and not just be Mr Tie-breaker. I think that's how it should be...but that means that Hue will have to live with moves that maybe he didn't want...just like it was when the only time Hue was over-ridden was when the football-guys disagreed with him. (But Sashi agreed with the football guys.)

This situation is better...but partially because the tie-breaker guy will also be an excellent evaluate(r) of talent.

No comment on Greco, eh?

Taylor isn't playing well...or as well as last year...and Haden's brittle-rear broke a leg. Which one of those things could reasonably have been foreseen in August?

You also didn't comment on Haden being a backup (which you also thought would be the case back in August) after being a Team Captain. Do you think he was about to eat that turd?

Lastly, GMs all throughout the league ask players to take a paycut and the player chooses to leave. Lawyer-GMs AND football GMs. Also, the money IS relevant when you are going to be the 3rd or 4th CB on a rebuilding team with no shot at the playoffs. Sorry...that's just how it goes.

Thank you ! lol .. A little levity never hurts !

Tab,

Sashi was the tie-breaker. The unrest you mentioned above was between Hue and the football-guys in the FO. Hue wanted to keep him and the football-guys wanted him to be gone/take a paycut. Sashi simply broke the tie.

In response to your first post ....

I’ll have some comments on Hue later ... want to give it a week or so ...

I’m glad we hired Dorsey ... i just don’t see all the talent folks talk about he aquired in KC ... reminds me of when folks called Hue a QB whisperer when he arrived here ...

In response to your 2nd post ...

Why would i bring up Grecco ... he hasn’t signed yet and so he doesnt fir my agenda here ... ...

I think Hue was upset when we cut Grecco based off his comments right after the cut was announced ... that was my only point .... I didn’t have a problem with that one .. it appeared Hue did ...

Haden saved us 4 million ... CHUMP CHANGE when it comes to the cap ... thats the only $ amount that matters ... nice job deflecting the debate away from that ... u have a vareer in politics if u so choose ... *L* ....

U cant ASSume injury .. thats not smart ... especially a broken leg ... thats just bad luck ... its not like Coleman who has a history of hammie injuries ... he may have bad hammie .. or MG and his ankles ... its not like Haden had a history of the same injury ...

Just an FYI, Greco has been with 2 teams since being cut by us, New Orleans and the NY Giants and so far he has played in only 2 games and seen 5 plays on special teams for the NY Giants.

I told you exactly why I think the CHUMP CHANGE was relevant. A re-building team is not going to waste $4 million (or 2 or 6 or 11) on an oft-injured, CB 3/4 on a no-chance-for-the-playoffs team.

You might disagree bro, but I didn't deflect diddly.



I agree. However, I asked which was more likely. A young player returning and playing well just like they did last year. Or a veteran player coming off two years of being injured coming back and getting injured again.

I am happy that we got a guy like Dorsey. I think he is way more qualified to be the tie-breaker. I also think Sashi did a lot of good things in this cluster of a rebuild.

What flavor lollipop do you prefer for the Club that thinks the hierarchy in place can work with a new Tie-breaker guy? (Who will likley be much, much more than just a tie-breaker.)

Ty sir .... appreciate the correction ... i HATE putting out bad info ...

Hue doesn't cover for people. That's not his MO.






We hoped that with Sashi and Hue and it didn't happen... Doubt this time will be any different.

I think Sashi was fired for a variety of reasons...as would have been the case if Hue was fired. But in the end, here is exactly why I think Sashi was fired:

He was put in his position to be the consensus-builder. The situation evolved into one where Sashi and someone he was to build consensus-with were no longer on speaking terms. I don't care why or who...but the primary reason Sashi was here wasn't working (anymore). A change had to be made. It's easier to cut-bait with a lawyer/quasi-GM/suit than a HC in the 2nd year of a complete and total tear-down and re-build.

Also, the fallacy of a non-football guy being made a talent, tie-breaker became evident. Not so much because of the decisions made (because it's too early to tell for a lot of the roster), but because of the backlash (toxicity) that comes from someone (Hue or the football guys) being forced to deal with a decision that was ultimately made by a guy who isn't necessarily qualified to make the/that decision. Sashi had a rep as being a terrific consensus-builder...it didn't work. Time to move on.

The Kessler pick REEKS of Hue IMO. Hue's #1 trait for a quarterback is accuracy... and accuracy is what Kessler does well. I have no doubt Hue believed he could coach Kessler up and was 100% on board with this pick.

j/c

And wasn't Haden asked to take a paycut and he declined?

This is nothing new for NFL teams. Don't act like Haden was a god and we're 0-12 because we didn't keep him around. 31 other teams most likely would have done the same thing.

Nothing to do with Dorsey. Everything to do with the owner.

The Kessler thing was in the BEGGINING ... the honeymoon period ...

All we have is HOPE bro ... your comment isn’t VERY HOPEFULL ... *L* ...

I am very grateful to Sashi for the shape he left us in .. if Dorsey does his job .. we will be in very good shape in 2 years ... if he gets a vet QB or Kizer improves we could be a 500 team as soon as next year ... hell with a BUM vet QB this year we would have 3 or 4 wins this year ..

Like i said .. all we have is HOPE ...

I believe Haden was offered to stay but with a paycut. I metioned that in replies to Diam.

I think this is logical...

I also think, as Joe Thomas even pointed out, that our owner tends to listen to the fans and media and will make judgements based on what they say. Jimmy is trying to appease the people, not necessarily make the correct decisions. But I guess we can hope the owner backed into another gem.

It's all about STILL having an unusual hierarchy structure. I don't think Jimmah should have all these direct reports...I think it's best for the HC to report to the GM...second choice is for the HC and GM to report to a President.

We still have the very-real possibility of strife caused by the new tie-breaker guy ...but THIS tie-breaker guy has an impressive football background and is not so interested in being a consensus-builder. Should be interesting.

Ah. I see it now. I jumped the gun.

Like I said, my comment has nothing to do with Dorsey.

I probably agree with that... It is also known that Hue didn't want Wentz at the 2nd pick. Well hell, I'd take a top quarterback prospect in the 2nd round too! If Hue actually felt that, then there's your problem! I can see the conversation between the front office and Hue went something like "Hey Hue, what do you think of Wentz," "Well I like him but that's awfully risky taking a guy like him with the second pick." BOOM, trade out.

And just saying, but if we fired Sashi because he didn't draft Wentz, I think Hue should be fired for the same offense.

A POG?

J/C

Not sure if anyone posted it, but Sashi Brown's exit statement was so classy.



I appreciate that. Football is always a little weird in the positivity you can feel for a move that benefits the franchise, but a day later you're thinking, "Damn. Someone just lost their job and I was happy about it."

It is different. Most of us lose our job, and it can get dire pretty quickly. Sashi's bank account is undoubtedly quite healthy, and someone of his qualifications and accomplishments won't struggle finding work. Still, it is what it is, and it sucks for anyone to lose their job.

I appreciate his efforts. He was undoubtedly asked to step out of his comfort zone, and doing so in a situation in which he was born to lose - not a whole lot of talent on the roster, and in a situation in which patience isn't a virtue.

Thanks, Sashi.

That is a classy move on his part. Good for him.

You are right in that it's easy for us fanatics to forget that someone has lost his job. It's not the same as when one of us "normal folk" loses our job, but it's just as jarring, just for different reasons. These guys are hyper driven to get these top spots and succeed at them, and these jobs are so coveted and rare. His career aspirations just took a HUGE hit... and many times these guys only get one shot at their goals. He's fine with $$$, but it's a crushing defeat nonetheless.

Changing gears, many have wondered openly is Sashi will ever be able to find a new NFL job (as a GM or GM-lite). I'm a little more optimistic about his chances than many. People (us on here as well as what the media is reporting) are already saying what a great job he did collecting assets and setting the franchise on a path for a turnaround. We also have a very young team, with a lot of his selections gaining experience.
If Dorsey is able to cash in big with the ammo Sashi has provided him (a franchise QB, mainly), and those Sashi picks continue to grow in NFL stars and contributors, I think everyone will have a much more positive view of Sashi after a little while.

A couple of if's in that scenario, but all very plausible.

DePodesta from last year:



https://twitter.com/bykevinclark/status/938800943910367233

Sashi did not do the most important thing needed to fix the situation.. Fix the QB situation. When Wentz turned into a star, he was no longer the smartest guy in the room. In fact the words that Wentz was not a top 20 talent came back to haunt him. All those picks are meaningless when you do not have a QB. So he is gone.

Hopefully Dorsey does not make the same mistake.

I do think it's hard to see someone lose their job when you know they've been trying their best. I actually hold no ill will towards Sashi. I will say when looking at his resume' when he was hired, I simply didn't understand it.

Unlike us, he has a contract that Haslam has to honor. He will receive millions over the next couple of years without having to lift a finger if he so chooses. Not quite the position we would be in if you lost your job. So in that respect, I'm not so sure that we should feel sorry for him.

So you think that Sashi was in a Vacuum and didn't want Wentz ... and Hue was desperate to sign him? Just asking because the way you wrote your post puts all the blame for Wentz on Sashi.

He failed at his job, and we're the ones left suffering. He knew the risks and I don't feel sorry for him.

I don't think any of us have a clear cut answer to that, but here's what we do know. It has been plainly stated that Dorsey's #1 job is to get a QB. That means that obviously they don't feel that Sashi accomplished that job.

Hue is here and Sashi is gone.

From those two things alone it appears as though Sashi was responsible for the QB position and Haslam feels he failed at that job.

From there everyone can draw their own conclusions.

Pit and cfrs,

In regards to the DePo quote, I hope that we continue with some of the Moneyball/analytics type stuff. To put it another way, Sashi wasn't fired because analytics is bad/wrong... he was fired because he couldn't evaluate talent and didn't hit on a QB. I think a lot of the Browns non-QB moves were pretty good.

As for the DePo quote itself... it is what it is. I agree with the point that cfrs is trying to make... we agreed to the plan and then blew up the plan before it was done. Stupid, and par for the course with this owner.

I dunno... one day removed from the moves I'm really torn on the whole thing. I think Sashi got a raw deal, but at the same time he made a number of mistakes that got him canned (I won't shed a tear for him). I would've preferred Sashi to stay on in a reduced role with Dorsey having the role of traditional GM. Maybe with DePo here, they thought keeping Sashi was redundant? I dunno...

Like I said, I'm in a weird place with our moves. I think we did Sashi wrong firing him when we did and like we did (having his successor pass him at the front door), but I also think the Browns are in a better place now than before.

I'm personally waiting to see what Dorsey does. If he signs a bunch of old vets, that isn't a good sign. If he makes a ton of FO changes, that isn't a good sign.

I don't have any problems with his resume and think he was probably the best choice out there, but if he doesn't fit with what we already have here, we may have set ourselves back another year or two. If we lock a bunch of overpaid older vets into long term contracts, we'll be set back several years. Time will tell.

I am also not buying that Hue's job is safe and if we change coaches and coaching systems we'll be set back another couple of years.