DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns have hired John Dorsey to become Cleveland's general manager

Way too much is being read into the comment that they need to find a QB, IMHO. I'm sure they will draft a QB but that doesn't necessarily preclude Kiser. Unless they bring in someone like Alex Smith, who would be a clear-cut starter, Kizer could get the start next year at the beginning of camp while they let the rookie learn. Hugh clearly had no problem naming Kessler as the starter at the beginning of the year regardless of his poor performance. I don't see why he wouldn't do the same thing with Kizer next year, since he is the most gifted quarterback he's ever coached. Unless he was lying, of course.

I hope you're being deliberately obtuse otherwise I'd have to think there was something wrong with you.

We didn't draft RG3. Hue felt the "earth shift beneath his feet."

I hope Hue keeps what you said in mind and doesn't try to force Dorsey into bad decisions like a 2 and 3 for AJ McCarron.

You seem to forget who was responsible for the drafting and signing of our players. It wasn't Hue.

And since Hue actually got wins with A.J., maybe you're wrong about what that would have accomplished. It's a good possibility you should look at the film of A.J. playing for Hue in Cincy. I mean we have spent a second and a third for our QB's.

In return we got Kessler and Kizer. It wouldn't be hard to upgrqade from that. lol

j/c:


https://twitter.com/mlombardiNFL/status/939576837931274240

How much does this hurt continuity.

How much does Dorsey understand, of the last 16+ years of the Cleveland Browns, and the continued re-booting.

Without fail, everyone, falls out of love with the current nose tackle and replaces him with another nose tackle, who is not better or worse, and claims a victory.

^ Wasted player aquisiton, has happened each and every time.


How much of the plan, is trashed because they've changed gm's again.

I'm not a fan of Sashi Brown, I didn't think, (well I thought it was the worst thing they did when they brought them , Sashi, and the whole gang, in on one weekend when they did.

But of the apparent moves Sashi and the group did, there were a lot of bad ones, but what the team exists of now, is what they did, and at this point, changing, means that ("'anything'") that they might have, is now in jeopardy of being trashed in favor of outside additions.

^ anti-continuity, on the way.

And also, for all the bad, perhaps results, of the GM's decisions, I don't think any of them were the means to the losing, I think the coach is the means to the losing.

I think he could lose if the greatest two NFL players you could find today were handed to him on a silver platter,

I think there is almost zero chance this team wins any of it's last 4, ... that's pretty obvious
tomorrow's game, maybe, but, that's my thinking before the Britt waiveing.

What does this move to John Dorsey mean for the

70-80+ players, who are either Browns or offseason not make the roster Browns.

Each one, individually, which may have been in a development process toward being a better version,
does this mean they will be given up on early, before that process can be completed.

No revisionist history. Hue had a big say on QB's. That is part of why he was hired.


I am not saying who he wanted or who he didn't, but don't make stuff up and try to wash his hands from this.


That isn't the Pit I know.

I don't believe for a minute that Hue had no say and his voice was ignored.

Sashi blew a high draft pick in the most spectacular fashion possible. He passed on Carson Wentz, who may be the NFL MVP in his second season. Garrett was an obvious one ( although so far ...) and I would hardly say Sashi nailed it with Peppers. No, Sashi's first round record is nothing to boast about, unless you're boasting to Ray Farmer.

It sounds like what y o and others are saying is that Sashi's greatest sin was that he didn't over ride Hue.

When Sashi asks Hue what he thought of Wentz at #2, and Hue's reply was "He's not worth the #2"... Sashi was supposes to do what?

He has been criticized for his lack of experience in player evaluation and even admitted as much in his comments about leaning on Hue for choosing a QB.

Sashi Brown stayed in his lane, stayed within his sphere of knowledge and trusted the "QB guru"... and Hue screwed him.

If Hue wanted Wentz, we would have taken him
If Hue wanted to do something with Brock, we would've kept him
If Hue wanted to retain McCown to be the experienced QB in the room, we would've kept him.

Point blank, Hue chose the QB's we went in to this season with.

mac has droned on and on about needing a "football guy" in charge. These last few days, I actually agree but I think his and many other's who have had this opinion base it on the wrong reasons.

It's not because Sashi wasn't capable of bringing talent to this team.. he certainly has overseen that process. It's also the biggest reason Dorsey is walking in to a good situation.

It's because we need a "football guy" in charge that doesn't have to lean on Hue's expertise and can more readily recognize when Hue is making poor personnel decisions i.e. telling Sashi to pass on Wentz.

You Dawgs who are assuming this Dorsey/Hue thing is I think are setting yourselves up for disappointment.

There are several reasons to say Hue will be retained, the least of which is that Jimmy believes in him:

1) If you let both Sashi AND Hue go at the same time, it's automatically going to be considered blowing it all up. Jimmy can't afford that image, literally.

2) Replacing your VP/GM at this juncture has minimal immediate negative impact on the organization. Any negative reaction can be mitigated if the position is filled quickly (which we did).

3) You can't do either #1 or #2 with the HC because you can't jettison him without there being an immediate negative impact on Sunday. You can't mitigate that impact because you can't replace him in any meaningful way. Also, by keeping Hue, the players are less likely to pack it in for the last 4 games, which is not an image Jimmy can literally afford.

If Dorsey wants hue gone, it wouldn't be all that difficult to justify the firing. It doesn't mean Hue isn't good, just maybe not good enough.

I don't understand any Sashi bashing when it comes to trading down in the 2016 draft to let the Eagles get Wentz.

Small school QB at 2? I wouldn't have done it either. Not to mention, I'm getting an additional 1,2, and mid round picks on top of it? I'm taking it every time.

Bash the man for how he handled other things, ie Mccarron, Haden, Pryor, Britt, etc... but not Wentz.

Devil and Vers arguing over Sashi like some dudes on Maury claiming the kid ain’t theirs.

Not to mention the brand new head coach didn't think Wentz was worth the second overall pick.

Pat McManamon
ESPN Staff Writer
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BEREA, Ohio -- New general manager John Dorsey is taking a more aggressive approach to the Cleveland Browns' long-running need for a quarterback.

While acknowledging that he liked DeShone Kizer coming out of college, Dorsey made no secret of every team’s need for what the Browns have lacked since 1999.

“This is a quarterback-driven league,” Dorsey said Friday as he was introduced by owner Jimmy Haslam. “We all know that, and we all know to succeed and go a little bit further and further and further that you need one of those guys.”

"One of those guys" is a top-tier player at the position.
 The attitude is welcome, and a diversion from the “we’ll keep working at it” approach of so many previous Browns leaders. Dorsey sounded more like Ernie Accorsi, who has said a GM's main job is to find the franchise quarterback.


Browns owner Jimmy Haslam, right, and new general manager John Dorsey appear to agree on the importance of landing a franchise quarterback. John Kuntz/The Plain Dealer via AP
Dorsey was director of college scouting with the Green Bay Packers when Aaron Rodgers was drafted. As general manager, he brought Alex Smith to Kansas City and traded up to get Patrick Mahomes II in last year’s draft.

Mahomes was a guy Browns coach Hue Jackson liked, so clearly he and Dorsey are starting a new relationship with some agreement on the abilities needed.

Dorsey said the important thing to do is what he did with the Chiefs: evaluate, discuss, form a plan and then go get the guy.

“I want to understand from a coaching perspective how they see it,” Dorsey said. “I want to see how the personnel staff sees it. I want to sit down with the head coach and see how he sees it. Let’s begin to build a plan moving forward and identify.”

That’s what he did when the Chiefs targeted Smith.

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“We sat and we made a plan,” Dorsey said. “We identified what that plan was. We identified that plan being, ‘You know what? We need to get a quarterback.’

“We looked at all the ways of acquiring a quarterback, and we thought the best way to do it after understanding the draft and the unrestricted free agency. We thought the best thing to do is to make a trade. We tried to orchestrate a trade with Alex Smith. We pulled that off.”

Haslam said the position will be Dorsey’s top priority.

“The Cleveland Browns are not going to be successful until we get a quarterback,” Haslam said.

The priority isn’t shocking; Dorsey’s attitude is refreshing.

What are the other things Dorsey can do in the short term, with the benefit of the final month of this regular season to watch the coaching staff and team?

Mesh with the coach. This will be vital going forward, and not only because the previous marriage didn’t last. Dorsey will bring in the players, but he will do so after studying Jackson’s systems to understand how the players he will scout could fit. Jackson and Dorsey both are longtime NFL guys. Haslam conceded that front-office evaluations will hew more closely to the traditional structure. And though Dorsey said analytics can play a part, he told ESPN’s Adam Schefter in a podcast that they should be 20 percent of the process.

Evaluate DeShone Kizer. Kizer still can be part of the Browns' future, but that judgment will come from Jackson and Dorsey after the season. Dorsey had good things to say about the 2017 second-round pick: “I like the rookie quarterback who is here now,” he said. “Coming out in the draft, we actually brought him up [in Kansas City] as one of the four or five quarterbacks in terms of the 30-player visit last year.” Of the signal-callers in the 2018 group, Dorsey said, “It is not a bad class.”


Delve into the roster. The four games he will get to see in person -- starting when the 0-12 Browns host the Packers on Sunday -- will give Dorsey a head start on where he sees strengths and needs. The plan will begin with the quarterback, the same way it began with acquiring Smith in Kansas City. “From that plan was the overall plan of the team, where the strengths and weaknesses of the team [were] and how do you go about building it,” Dorsey said. “What we did is we set a plan into motion, and we attempted to build it as quickly as we could because I thought when you have a head coach like that [in the Chiefs' Andy Reid], you want to get a jump-start. We are going to have to make some plans here, too.”

Send Sashi Brown a note of thanks. Dorsey credited Brown with acquiring draft picks and creating salary-cap space. The cruel reality is that Brown indeed did just that but won’t be around to see the plan come to life; 2018 was always the year the Browns expected to see tangible results in a long-term build. Dorsey takes over a team that is expected to have up to $100 million in cap space and five picks in the first two rounds of the draft. “Any personnel guy worth his weight would be excited,” Dorsey said, adding, “To me, this is an opportunity that not many personnel guys in my position would pass up. This is one of those iconic franchises, which has an unbelievable fan base. Now we just have to get this thing rolling here, and that is what we are going to do. We are going to roll up our sleeves, we are going to check our egos in at the door and we are going to work every day.”

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brown...is-top-priority

One thing that jumps out at me is this...

Haslam said the position will be Dorsey’s top priority.

“The Cleveland Browns are not going to be successful until we get a quarterback,” Haslam said.

doesn't look good for Kizer...hopefully they see the same things I do with Kizer.

you mean that guy that went through a blizzad to go to his pro day? only coach in the nfl that did that... yep hated the guy lmao

Do we think Dorsey will keep Gordon? I mean, the dude is incredible and a game changer. But, I wonder where things stand with respects to his character and the baggage he comes with? If we do keep him and Coleman stays healthy, Njoku grows and develops and Duke continues to get open in the flat...I see us having a potent passing game. Add a true slot receiver to the roster and the question wont be the WR corps, but who will be throwing to them.

I dont think the guy who drafted Marcus Peters and Tyreek Hill is concerned with having too many off the field problems guys on the team.

Agreed. That'll make this draft interesting when it comes to some of the players with off-field concerns. For example, is he less willing to look sideways at Baker Mayfield given his additions have had much greater issues?

Personally, I like that. I think when you're a struggling team who is trying to build, the addition of a player with character concerns can work out for the best if you're getting a high-value player at a much cheaper rate.

Sadly, we always seem to get it wrong. We'll pass on someone like the honey badger before adding Johnny Manziel.

Report: Dorsey was scheduled to meet with Giants prior to Browns move

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1443014

The New York Giants scheduled an interview with John Dorsey for their general manager vacancy before the Cleveland Browns hired him Thursday for the same position, sources told ESPN's Adam Schefter.

Former Carolina Panthers general manager Dave Gettleman is now considered the favorite for the Giants opening. Gettleman worked for the Giants from 1999-2012.

Kevin Abrams is currently serving as the Giants' interim GM.

New York fired head coach Ben McAdoo and general manager Jerry Reese on Monday.

Mam.....you got that right and hopefully HUE also

The fact is, I don't believe this at all. I don't believe that Hue didn't want a franchise QB. I don't believe he felt that anyone Sashi brought in here was seen by Hue as a possible franchise QB. I believe Hue rode the company line and supported every one of them like a good HC would do.

We actually saw Hue say that he wanted more say in the draft. Why would someone say that if the FO was taking their advice in the first place?

Sashi had shown his approach. Trade down for more picks. Obviously it wasn't what Hue wanted or he wouldn't have been stating he wanted more say in the draft.

One thing I do agree with you about here. It was someones job to address the QB position. He failed. That's why he's gone and Hue is here. That's also why Haslam stated whose job it was to get that QB. It's Dorsey's. Haslam made that very clear. Just like it was Sahshi's.

I'm thinking it's a duo that will take a liking to Sam Darnold. Compared to the 2017 class, Darnold is Mahomes.

Josh Allen is more a Deshone Kizer - most upside, but needs the most work.

Rosen is more Watson - Most ready to start immediately, but doesn't have the upside of the others.

Darnold and Mahomes both had insane upside but were not perceived to be long shots. They came from crappy offenses that didn't prepare them for the league, but they're tough-as-nails leaders who love the game and have a special 'it' factor about them. Their shortcomings never overruled the fact that they're both pocket passing ballers who seem to produce some real magic.

I think that could end up being Dorsey's main goal - Add Alex Smith, let Darnold develop behind him for a year or two. Smith is good enough to get some wins and prevent firings, but he won't keep Darnold off the field when he's ready.

Dorsey didn't have the luxury of having the opportunity to draft a QB higher. He also had Alex Smith on his roster.

We have no idea who he would have drafted if the opportunity to draft a QB higher in the draft had been at his disposal.

When you have a highly productive QB on your roster and only have the ability to trade up so far, your options are limited and the need is different.

Had Dorsey been strapped with Cody Kessler as his starter and a much higher draft pick at his disposal, Mohames by not be a Kansas City Chief right now.

Just going off of what Hue's guy Mike Silver said.

Actions speak louder than rumors.

Not around here.

I'm not sure how this relates to my post. I'm not talking about who he would have draft in Cleveland last year or who he would draft in KC if Cody Kessler was their starting quarterback, I'm talking about who he would draft in Cleveland in 2018 if he does get his hands on Alex Smith.

Given the last time he drafted a QB to learn behind Smith he went after a development guy, I don't think it's unrealistic it would happen literally just a year later.

Those aren't rumors and you know that. To quote you...."play fair"

This board is much more entertaining when we're not playing "touch football"...

Once again, you are trying to say that the same mold of player applies in both cases. I don't believe it does. Now if we go out and sign Alex Smith I think you have a point.

But why would you sign a developmental QB when you don't have an above average QB for him to develop behind? It's also a very viable argument to say at where Mahomes was drafted, there wasn't a choice for him to draft a better QB that was more developed.

It's like saying that Dorsey would have drafted Mahomes out of every QB in that draft. I don't believe that can be said. In this draft, Dorsey can draft any QB he wishes. That wasn't the case when he drafted Mahomes.

We don't have an Alex Smith on our roster. We have the choice to draft any QB we like. That makes our situation much different than the situation that Dorsey was in at KC.

That won't be the case here either. Hue picks the QB's here and if Dorsey doesn't like it, he'll go on an email brigade and get Dorsey fired.

Ah, you have brought being facetious to an art form. Congrats!

You guys need to make up your minds. Either Hue has picked the QB's here and the fault lies with Hue. Or Sashi made the picks at QB and Hue was tired of being strapped with those decisions. You can't have it both ways.

Which is literally why I clearly specified in in my original post that the concept of the development quarterback followed the addition of Alex Smith. It is a hypothetical situation in which Alex Smith would be a Cleveland Brown, in which the same mold of player would likely apply to the same situation.

How are you not getting that? I can't explain that any more clearly.



Again, my post specifically included the caveat of if Alex Smith was a Brown. You can't just disregard that. That is the ENTIRE purpose of the post.

Regarding an inability to draft a more developed QB, Watson was the most pro-ready QB in the 2017 draft yet Dorsey took Mahomes instead. Only Trubisky was off the board, and he was a raw prospect himself who had only started for one season in college.



So you think he wanted Trubisky? Because only Trubisky was off the board. You make it sound like there was five guys gone. There had only been one quarterback selected. He basically did have every QB in the draft available.

Did you see what they gave up to go get Mahomes? You're going to have a REAL hard time convincing me that they made that move for someone who wasn't the guy they wanted all along. You just don't make a trade like that for a plan B. If you're going to surrender that much value, it's for your guy. Maybe he did want Trubisky, but it's pretty damn clear he wanted Mahomes considering, I don't know, HE LITERALLY GOT HIM.



... Do you not understand what a hypothetical situation is?

Wow. Okay. My bad. Dorsey hates Mahomes, won't want a QB like him and there is no point looking at the last quarterback he drafted to see if there is any similarities. Apologies for creating discussion. Rosen or death. Etc.

You Rosen fans are insane. The mere suggestion that the decision makes on this team might want someone other than Rosen sends to in to a damn frenzy. It's crazy. We literally don't know who they will want, if anyone, and all we can do is take a shot in the draft. What you're typing is just as much a guess as mine. Yeesh.

I understand your hypothetical but still believe you are missing the biggest single ingredient. Choice.

And let me tell you that you could very well be correct. However, trying to compare the two situations isn't as close as I believe you think it is.

In KC, Dorsey didn't have the luxury of being in the position to draft any QB in the draft that he wanted. His choices were limited based on where his selection was and the draft capital he had to move up in the draft.

That's not the situation here. Not even remotely close. I can see no reason why given his task at hand, that he would risk drafting a developmental QB when he has the luxury of selecting the best QB in this draft class.

He has his choice of pick of the litter. It's not a time for him to get cute. I don't know why someone would risk their career taking a developmental QB when there are better options at their disposal.

So while your theory is possible, I don't find it to be very likely.

I didn't even mention Rosen. That may not be who they decide the best QB in this draft class is.

You're the one who is suggesting they simply ignore who they feel is the best QB in this draft for a developmental QB. Say that out loud to yourself and see how much sense that makes. lmao

Those are horrible comparisons. So bad that I refuse to quote your post.

Is anyone else a bit concerned that Dorsey has always drafted players for a 3-4 defense while we have a roster set up for a 4-3? I know it SHOULDN'T be much of a problem but......

Cute little protest on the fake morality, but that makes it really hard for me to know what you're referring to.

I'm going to assume it's Kizer and Bridgewater's similar production?

Sure, I agree. I'm not comparing them as players. Just pointing out that a quarterback with 14 touchdowns to 9 interceptions on his best season, and coming off an injury that may yet end his career, isn't the sure-fire answer it is being portrayed as.

He was not a productive NFL quarterback, and there is reason to assume his game is going to be worse following the injury as his mobility will undoubtedly not be what it was.

I don't know why people so desperately want Teddy Bridgewater to be a thing. He was an okay manager on an excellent team who is currently the 3rd best QB on that roster - Bradford and Keenum are both better quarterbacks. In fact, following Bridgewater's 14/9 season, Bradford jumps in the following year and goes 20/5 and this year Keenum is 18/7. There is a reason the Vikings don't want Bridgewater anymore.

This is why Diam says stats are for losers.

Complete manipulation of the stats.

And do you have a link that says Minni doesn't want Bridgewater anymore?

Browns GM John Dorsey praises Hue Jackson and 'we have to get some more players on this team'

Updated 5:11 PM; Posted 4:42 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/12/john_dorsey_praises_hue_jackso.html

BEREA, Ohio -- John Dorsey and Hue Jackson are already in complete agreement on one aspect of the 0-13 Browns.

'We have to get some more players on this team,'' Dorsey told the club's in-house radio show, Cleveland Browns Daily, on Wednesday. "I don't say that maliciously.''

That was the new GM's takeaway after watching the Browns' 27-21 loss to the Packers in the owner's suite with Jimmy Haslam and Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta, and after reviewing the film Monday morning with coach Hue Jackson.

"What you learn is, we have to get better,'' said Dorsey. "What I'm saying is these guys play hard, I mean, they play hard.''

Dorsey, fired by the Chiefs in June after four years as GM, and Jackson are speaking the same language and agreeing on a lot of things.

"It's great,'' Dorsey said. "It's just nice to be back in the environment where you can sit and go through football with real football guys. The interaction we have on a daily basis, it's 1:52 (p.m.) and we've probably seen each other four times today. So there's a genuine interaction amongst each other.''

Jackson acknowledged Monday that "it was much different'' reviewing the film with Dorsey, who played for the Packers for four years and then spent 26 years as NFL personnel executive, helping his teams to 19 playoff berths, 11 divisional titles, three conference championships and two Super Bowl wins.

He said the two are "very much'' in sync on football matters and "that's what it's all about.''

Dorsey said he sat in on the team meeting today.

"I just wanted to listen to Hue and how he went about things, and I'll tell you what -- he does such a marvelous of job trying to just kind of take those guys and express to them the urgency and the concerns,'' said Dorsey. "He basically was saying, 'let's make some plays, guys.' It was very refreshing to see what he had to present to the team today.''

Dorsey said the roster features some players that he 'absolutely' liked coming out when he was Chiefs' GM.

"I liked Duke Johnson,'' he said. "I thought for a situational third-down, second back, I really liked him. I liked (Joel) Bitonio. I liked Danny Shelton. That's a given. I like 58, (Christian) Kirksey. I love Myles Garrett. He's a freak. Now, with him, I would love to put some pressure on it. He's got every gift in the world. He could be like super special.''

Dorsey said he believes in building the foundation of a team through the offensive and defensive lines, and liked what he saw on Sunday.

"The offensive and defensive lines they come to battle and they move the ball,'' he said. "I think (Isaiah Crowell) finally had 100 yards rushing, which is awesome and now they're creating the run lanes, so now, that opens up a lot of other different avenues for the playcalling. Now you can go downfield and you can hit Josh Gordon on that play and then 19, (Corey) Coleman makes that really difficult catch when he had to go low to get it and that's a good play. I thought he played well. I see some growth in him as well.''

He said an NFL executive called him and "was admiring how hard the defense plays. Then you talk about the Danny Sheltons who didn't happen to play in the game, but that defensive line comes to play. Now, you know what, if you're asked to rush the passer or stop the run, somebody needs to make a play. So I say to them, 'big boys, let's step up and make a play.'"

With 13 picks in the 2018 draft and a boatload of cap space, Dorsey will have plenty of chances to add talent to the team.