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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Rob Portman's latest lies

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.s...#incart_opinion

Yo Rob you didn't respond to my emails, but I would be happy to debate you on this subject. Come on your a United States Senator, your a Lawyer. I am a broken down old man with health problems, memory problems, and only a High School Education, yet even I can expose you for the lying scumbag you are when it comes to this tax increase.


All you'll get from portman is form letters. Made me so mad I set up a bot to email him once a day just to tell him I'll be voting for whoever runs against him.

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I prefer to send him my personal ones. It's more therapeutic smile


I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Rob Portman's latest lies

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.s...#incart_opinion

Yo Rob you didn't respond to my emails, but I would be happy to debate you on this subject. Come on your a United States Senator, your a Lawyer. I am a broken down old man with health problems, memory problems, and only a High School Education, yet even I can expose you for the lying scumbag you are when it comes to this tax increase.


All you'll get from portman is form letters. Made me so mad I set up a bot to email him once a day just to tell him I'll be voting for whoever runs against him.


You set up a bot to bitch at him once a day?

That's like the greatest thing I ever heard lol.


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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
No problem his ass would be grass and I am the lawn mower smile


Still scratching my head over how you figured your taxes for next year based on a plan that isn't even finished yet.

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Easy I based it on the worst of the two plans. Trust me if they change things and I get a tax break I have no problem changing my tune.


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So you will then take back calling me a liar?

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
So you will then take back calling me a liar?


I called the guy who wrote the article a LIAR, not you, but I will say you believed his bullcrap. If I ever call you personally a liar you will know it, and if I do so and I am wrong I would have no problem admitting I was wrong if I was in fact wrong, I would apoligize to you in front of everybody.


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I love that the leftys here are so concerned that the Repub tax bill isn't good for the working middle class but they have no problem with shelling out our tax money to the tune of aprox. 170 billion to the illegal aliens.
I guess that where concern stops. SMH

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This article says that it could be unconstitutional to get rid of the salt deduction. I wonder how true it is.

http://beta.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-salt-deduction-20171208-story.html

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Originally Posted By: Riley01
J\C
I love that the leftys here are so concerned that the Repub tax bill isn't good for the working middle class but they have no problem with shelling out our tax money to the tune of aprox. 170 billion to the illegal aliens.
I guess that where concern stops. SMH




Instead of just blurting out blurbs of Breitbart talking points, how about you show some confirmed proof of what you are saying and then us lefty's can see if you have an actual, factual point.

The tax plan has nothing to do with illegal immigrants btw. Your whataboutisms are getting very old and boring. It would be nice if you could talk as a person and not a parrot.

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jc

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-taxman-...some-1512942118

The Taxman Cometh: Senate Bill’s Marginal Rates Could Top 100% for Some
Certain high-income business owners would face backwards incentives; lawmakers work to bridge gap
House and Senate Republicans are trying to reconcile their tax bills to get rid of the most contentious proposals.
House and Senate Republicans are trying to reconcile their tax bills to get rid of the most contentious proposals. Photo: Daniel Acker/Bloomberg News
By Richard Rubin
Updated Dec. 10, 2017 6:46 p.m. ET
367 COMMENTS

WASHINGTON—Some high-income business owners could face marginal tax rates exceeding 100% under the Senate’s tax bill, far beyond the listed rates in the Republican plan.

That means a business owner’s next $100 in earnings, under certain circumstances, would require paying more than $100 in additional federal and state taxes.

As lawmakers rush to write the final tax bill over the next week, they already are looking at changes to prevent this from happening. Broadly, House and Senate Republicans are trying to reconcile their bills, looking for ways to pay for eliminating the most contentious proposals. The formal House-Senate conference committee will meet on Wednesday, and GOP lawmakers may unveil an agreement by week’s end.
Related Video
Talking Taxes: What’s Your Fair Share?
What do the 1% pay in taxes? Is it enough? Or too much? WSJ's tax reporter Richard Rubin breaks it down with lots of candy. Video/Photo: Heather Seidel/The Wall Street Journal

The possible marginal tax rate of more than 100% results from the combination of tax policies designed to provide benefits to businesses and families but then deny them to the richest people. As income climbs and those breaks phase out, each dollar of income faces regular tax rates and a hidden marginal rate on top of that, in the form of vanishing tax breaks. That structure, if maintained in a final law, would create some of the disincentives to working and to earning business profit that Republicans have long complained about, while opening lucrative avenues for tax avoidance.

As a taxpayer’s income gets much higher and moves out of those phaseout ranges, the marginal tax rates would go down.

Consider, for example, a married, self-employed New Jersey lawyer with three children and earnings of about $615,000. Getting $100 more in business income would force the lawyer to pay $105.45 in federal and state taxes, according to calculations by the conservative-leaning Tax Foundation. That is more than double the marginal tax rate that household faces today.

If the New Jersey lawyer’s stay-at-home spouse wanted a job, the first $100 of the spouse’s wages would require $107.79 in taxes. And the tax rates for similarly situated residents of California and New York City would be even higher, the Tax Foundation found. Analyses by the Tax Policy Center, which is run by a former Obama administration official, find similar results, with federal marginal rates as high as 85%, and those don’t include items such as state taxes, self-employment taxes or the phase-out of child tax credits.

The bill as written would provide incentives for business owners to shift profit across calendar years, move personal expenses inside the business and engage in other economically unproductive maneuvers, said David Gamage, a tax-law professor at Indiana University.

“I would expect a huge tax-gaming response once people fully understand how it works,” said Mr. Gamage, a former Treasury Department official, who said business owners have an easier time engaging in such tax avoidance than salaried employees do. “The payoff for gaming is huge, within the set of people who both face these rates and have flexible enough business structures.”

The analyses “raise a valid concern” that lawmakers are examining, said Julia Lawless, a spokeswoman for the Senate Finance Committee.
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“With any major reform, there will always be unusual hypotheticals delivering anomalous results,” she said. “The goal of Congress’s tax overhaul has been to lower taxes on the American people and by and large, according to a variety of analyses, we’re achieving that.”

Marginal tax rates are different from average tax rates. A marginal rate is the tax on the edge, or margin, of one’s earnings, and so it reflects what would be the next dollar of income. The average rate is a way of measuring a taxpayer’s total burden.

The Republican bills are trying to reduce both marginal and average tax rates, and for many taxpayers, they do. The marginal tax rates above 100% affect a small slice of households with very particular circumstances. Similar, though smaller, effects occur throughout the tax system.

“This is a big concern,” said Scott Greenberg, a Tax Foundation analyst. “It would be unfortunate if Congress passed a tax bill that had the effect of making additional work and additional income not worthwhile for any subgroup of households.”

Here’s how that New Jersey lawyer’s marginal rate adds up to more than 100%:

The household is paying the 35% marginal tax rate on their income range. Or, they are paying the alternative minimum tax, which operates at the same marginal rate in that income range.

The household is paying New Jersey’s highest income-tax rate, which is 8.97%, and now has to pay all of that because the Republican tax plan wouldn’t let such state or local taxes be deducted from federal income.

The household is also losing a deduction the Senate created for so-called pass-through businesses such as partnerships and S corporations. That 23% deduction is fully available to owners of service businesses like law firms, but only if income is below $500,000 for a married couple.

The deduction then phases out over $100,000 in income, according to a complex formula, disappearing entirely once income reaches $624,000. Up to that point, each additional dollar of business income faces progressively steeper tax rates because the deduction and its benefit are shrinking rapidly as income goes up.

The provisions also interact with each other in ways that drive up marginal rates. “The central problem here is that there is a large benefit phasing out over a short range,” Mr. Greenberg said.

The Republican bill doubles the child tax credit to $2,000 but phases it out beginning at $500,000 income for joint filers. The credit shrinks by $50 for every $1,000 in income above that, so a married couple with three children faces a higher marginal tax rate when they’re in that phase-out range.

The analysis assumes that the New Jersey lawyer is paying a 3.8% tax on self-employment income.

Pushing marginal rates lower on these households wouldn’t be easy and would require tradeoffs. Republicans could make the phaseout of the business deduction more gentle, spreading it over, say, $200,000, as opposed to $100,000, of income above $500,000. But that would make the tax cuts bigger, and Republicans are already looking for money to offset other changes they are planning.

They could lower the threshold for the child tax credit, but that would reduce tax cuts for households below $500,000.

Under current law, there are some high marginal tax rates for some lower-income households. Some families just above the poverty line can see their earned income tax credits and food stamps going down as their federal and state taxes go up. That combination can create marginal tax rates of around 75%, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Write to Richard Rubin at richard.rubin@wsj.com


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Yippee! Besides being a great plan for the wealthiest Americans this isn't tax reform. It's highway robbery.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Republican tax plan poised to benefit landlords

-The Republican tax plan could drive more rental demand.
-Investors in single-family homes can write off all the expenses of owning and running a rental.
-Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac allow up to 10 investor loans per person.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/12/republican-tax-plan-poised-to-benefit-rental-landlords.html

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can't lie, this benefits me.

but i can not support this, because it's part of the larger overall bill that will screw over this country.

Last edited by Swish; 12/12/17 03:40 PM.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Kudos for recognizing that it's not about what benefits the individual in governance, but about the whole.


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thanks man, and yes that's how it has to be.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Except for the Rich of course rofl

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We get it. You support bills that benefit the few and screw over the many. We already know you worship the dollar, not god.

Last edited by Swish; 12/12/17 05:16 PM.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
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No, you don't get it. You talk out of one side of your neck about the Rich being bad and then out of the other side of your neck that things must be fair for all.

Now maybe you get it.

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Lying your ass off again.

People have got rich in this country without screwing thousands over. You want people who are already wealthy to get thousands, if not millions of dollars, while the middle class and poor get scraps, if even that.

You argue for the royalty class. Pathetic.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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You Talk out of your neck, even more pathetic.

But I tried.

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You’re nothing more than a internet lobbyist for people who serve the Koch Bros.

A whip for the royalty class.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
You’re nothing more than a internet lobbyist for people who serve the Koch Bros.

A whip for the royalty class.


Neck Talking! Koch Bros hated Trump, I hate them!

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BS.

Serve your corporate slave masters all you want, lobbyist.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Keep up with your hollow motto, "Fair For Everyone!"

Except the Rich.
Except the Politicians.
Except the Corporations.
Except....

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We might not have Trump yet, but I move that we start Dawgtalkers Impeachment of 40... That should be nearly a 100% bipartisan vote in favor of removal. wink

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Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
We might not have Trump yet, but I move that we start Dawgtalkers Impeachment of 40... That should be nearly a 100% bipartisan vote in favor of removal. wink


Silence the opposition, how typical of the Left.

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Keep up with your hollow motto, "Fair For Everyone!"

Except the Rich.
Except the Politicians.
Except the Corporations.
Except....


I think his point is that things are perhaps "too fair," meaning extremely skewed in favor of everyone you just listed.

Do you really think that the people on that list don't have a disproportionate amount of power in/over our Government?


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

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Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Keep up with your hollow motto, "Fair For Everyone!"

Except the Rich.
Except the Politicians.
Except the Corporations.
Except....


I think his point is that things are perhaps "too fair," meaning extremely skewed in favor of everyone you just listed.

Do you really think that the people on that list don't have a disproportionate amount of power in/over our Government?


They have the power of money but even though they threw it all at Hillary, one man one vote Trumped their power. thumbsup

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Quote:
Silence the opposition


LOL you're not the opposition. You're the brunt of the jokes.


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Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Quote:
Silence the opposition


LOL you're not the opposition. You're the brunt of the jokes.

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Once again the pot calls the kettle black. notallthere

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Once again the pot calls the kettle black. notallthere


Just filling you in on the inside secret we have running here. tongue


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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Keep up with your hollow motto, "Fair For Everyone!"

Except the Rich.
Except the Politicians.
Except the Corporations.
Except....


I think his point is that things are perhaps "too fair," meaning extremely skewed in favor of everyone you just listed.

Do you really think that the people on that list don't have a disproportionate amount of power in/over our Government?


They have the power of money but even though they threw it all at Hillary, one man one vote Trumped their power. thumbsup


Tell me about it. He's really rebalancing things and fixing that enormous wealth gap by advocating lower taxes on the wealthy!


Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown

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Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: dawglover05
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Keep up with your hollow motto, "Fair For Everyone!"

Except the Rich.
Except the Politicians.
Except the Corporations.
Except....


I think his point is that things are perhaps "too fair," meaning extremely skewed in favor of everyone you just listed.

Do you really think that the people on that list don't have a disproportionate amount of power in/over our Government?


They have the power of money but even though they threw it all at Hillary, one man one vote Trumped their power. thumbsup


Tell me about it. He's really rebalancing things and fixing that enormous wealth gap by advocating lower taxes on the wealthy!


Truth is, he can't do much except sign or not sign what the Republicans put on his desk.

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Quote:
he can't do much except sign or not sign what the Republicans put on his desk.


What a very lonely man he must be.


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Republicans reach a tentative tax deal; Trump says he'd sign a bill with 21% corporate rate

-House and Senate leaders have a tentative deal on a final tax bill, Sen. Orrin Hatch says.
-Hatch did not go into any more details about what the plan would contain.
-President Donald Trump says Republicans are "very close" to passing a bill and says he would sign a plan that includes a 21 percent corporate tax rate.
-Republicans want to pass a tax-cut bill and send it to Trump's desk before the end of the year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/13/house-se...ng-sources.html

thumbsup

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Oh Boy Oh Boy...*hands wringing together*. I may get to sign something..I may get to sign something! We'll have candy tweets to pass out.


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Schumer asked the Republicans to delay the vote till Senator Doug is seated.

rofl

When Pigs fly!

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Schumer asked the Republicans to delay the vote till Senator Doug is seated.

rofl

When Pigs fly!


Worth a shot. rofl Whatabout if Moore won, your tune would change as usual.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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