DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Tax Overhaul Pt. 2

Nope, 40 stays. Without a voice of reason you swish and ps would,nt have anything to whine about.

Trump speech about taxes, he introduces an Ohio family and says they paid $14K last year and will save nearly a third of that this year, saving $3,500 dollars... Wait? 3500 is a fourth of 14K exactly...? Math much Trump? smh

Trump bringing in a bunch of young families with kids talking about saving them money, barely mentions businesses saving a bundle, doesn't mention the rich at all. Did not march anyone out that is going to lose healthcare or older couples and seniors that will see tax increases!

This guy is an absolute scam artists, has no clue what this bill will really do and is selling us out to give the wealthy a huge payday! They would have to have re-written this thing top to bottom to do all the stuff he's saying. Stupid man, scam artist.

https://cis.org/Ting/Tax-Cuts-Bill-Gives-Welfare-Illegal-Aliens

On the campaign trail, Donald Trump spoke of the "tremendous costs" illegal aliens pose to the country through "abuse our welfare system". Tax reform gave Congress an opportunity to help stop this abuse. Unfortunately, for reasons that are unclear, Republicans changed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act in order to continue to permit the IRS to pay billions of dollars every year to illegal aliens through the child tax credit.

If they paid 14g they are either rich, stupid, or both.

Well, I don't know. I certainly don't consider myself rich, even with my wife's income combined with mine. Especially when I see people on here buying performance cars, apartments, investing, maxing out their IRA's etc.

But, my wife and I paid right around that amount.

We're not rich, we're not stupid. Neither is our cpa stupid.

I do pretty well, but I don't consider myself rich and pay WAY more than that. The problem with "rich" is that it is a relative term that can be completely different amounts to differnt people.

Both you and Columbus are Self employed correct? So yes your taxes are going to be higher. You need to have a taxable income of about 90,000 to pay 14K in federal taxes. That's after all of your deductions

Democrats should be ashamed of themselves as their Representatives in Washington refuse to do what is best for our Country by not participating.

Just think of what this tax bill could be if there were only 10 Democrats involved!

It would have had better input and we would not have to jump through hoops to get ALL Republicans on board to pass this.

But they hate Trump, so all is good.

So now we will take what is handed us by one side, one Party, on a bill they can ALL agree on.

SHAME! Because of your choice to hate Trump more than you care to help America, we will take what is handed us.

This bill explodes the deficit and screws the working class in favor of the elite.

Why would anyone try to work at compromise in good faith when the GOP spent near a decade crowing about the deficit until it came time to cut taxes, and now that they're in charge they want to burn down the farm in the name of millionaires?

Democrats don't care about that as they blew up the Debt by 10 Trillion bucks!

Just imagine if 10 Dems said they would vote yes if the bill contained this and this, as compared to having to appease that final Republican Senator who says I will vote yes but only if the bill contains this, this, this this and this.

A wise man once said, "1 + 1 = 2"

But Democrats can sit back now and point fingers while crying about the bill because they had nothing to do with it.

SHAME!

you mean the tax bill that republicans completely shut out the dems on?

fox news, the GOP, you and a whole bunch of other people wouldn't stop bragging about the fact that you didn't need the dems for ANYTHING.

now when crap looks like its going south, just like the ACA repeal, all of a sudden it's "why aren't the dems trying to help".

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-14/why-the-world-should-be-grateful-for-donald-trump

This Tax Bill Is a Trillion-Dollar Blunder

Congress and President Trump put politics ahead of smart reform.

by
Michael R. Bloomberg


‎December‎ ‎15‎, ‎2017‎ ‎5‎:‎00‎ ‎AM

Last month a Wall Street Journal editor asked a room full of CEOs to raise their hands if the corporate tax cut being considered in Congress would lead them to invest more. Very few hands went up. Attending was Gary Cohn, President Donald Trump's economic adviser and a friend of mine. He asked: "Why aren't the other hands up?"


Allow me to answer that: We don't need the money.


Corporations are sitting on a record amount of cash reserves: nearly $2.3 trillion. That figure has been climbing steadily since the recession ended in 2009, and it's now double what it was in 2001. The reason CEOs aren't investing more of their liquid assets has little to do with the tax rate.

CEOs aren't waiting on a tax cut to "jump-start the economy" -- a favorite phrase of politicians who have never run a company -- or to hand out raises. It's pure fantasy to think that the tax bill will lead to significantly higher wages and growth, as Republicans have promised. Had Congress actually listened to executives, or economists who study these issues carefully, it might have realized that.


Instead, Congress did what it always does: It put politics first. After spending the first nine months of the year trying to jam through a repeal of Obamacare without holding hearings, heeding independent analysis or seeking Democratic input, Republicans took the same approach to tax "reform" -- and it shows.

The Treasury Department claimed to have more than 100 professional staffers "working around the clock" to analyze the tax cut. If true, their hard work must have been suppressed. The flimsy one-page analysis Treasury released -- which accepts the White House's reality-defying economic projections in order to claim that the tax cuts will pay for themselves and then some -- is a politically driven document that amounts to economic malpractice. So does the bill itself.

The largest economic challenges we face include a skills crisis that our public schools are not addressing, crumbling infrastructure that imperils our global competitiveness, wage stagnation coupled with growing wealth inequality, and rising deficits that will worsen as more baby boomers retire.

The tax bill does nothing to address these challenges. In fact, it makes each of them worse.



EDUCATION: The bill, by limiting the deduction for state and local taxes, will make it harder for the localities to raise money for education. The burden will fall heaviest on cities with poor students, making it harder for millions of children to escape from poverty -- and leaving more and more businesses with fewer qualified job applicants.

INFRASTRUCTURE: Restricting state and local tax deductions will also mean less local investment for infrastructure, and by raising deficits, the bill will constrain federal infrastructure spending. Our airports, railways and roads are in desperate need of modernization, and our energy grids are vulnerable and inefficient. Yet spending on those and other needs, which acts as a catalyst for private investment, will become more difficult.

INEQUALITY: If Congress wanted to raise real wages and reward work, there is a simple and proven way to do it: expand the earned income tax credit. Instead, it seems to believe that lower corporate tax rates will magically lead to higher wages, which fundamentally misunderstands how labor markets work.

In addition, by eliminating the requirement that individuals buy health insurance, many young and healthy people will drop out of the marketplace, causing health insurance premiums to rise for everyone else. This is nothing more than a backdoor tax increase on health care for millions of middle-class families that will leave them with less disposable income for savings, investment and spending.

DEFICITS: The bill's cost -- $1 trillion to $1.5 trillion -- makes it more difficult for taxpayers to afford Medicare and Social Security for the baby boom generation, which is now hitting retirement. Republicans didn't grapple with those costs. Instead, they kicked the can down the road. Ignoring the bill's price tag, or pretending we needn't worry about deficits, is like ignoring climate change or pretending we needn't worry about its effects. I'll say one thing for Republicans in Congress: They're consistent.

In effect, the tax bill achieves four main things:
•It takes money away from schools and students.
•It restricts our ability to invest in infrastructure.
•It does nothing to boost real wages while making health insurance more expensive.
•It makes it harder to control the costs of Medicare and Social Security without cutting defense and other spending -- or further exploding the deficit.

To what end? To hand corporations big tax cuts they don't need, while lowering the tax rate paid by those of us in the top bracket, and allowing the wealthy to shelter more of their estates.

To be clear: I'm in favor of reducing the 35 percent corporate tax rate as part of a revenue-neutral tax reform effort. Right now, the corporate code is so convoluted, and rates so high relative to other nations (thereby creating an incentive to keep profits offshore), that the real rates companies pay can be wildly divergent. This is neither fair nor efficient. Eliminating loopholes and reining in the offshoring of profits can and should be done in a revenue-neutral overhaul of the tax code.




Republicans in Congress will have to take responsibility for the bill's harmful effects, but blame also falls on its cheerleader-in-chief, President Trump. A president's job is to get the two parties in Congress to work together. Yet Trump is making the same mistake that Barack Obama made in his first two years in office -- believing that his party's congressional majority gives him license to govern without the other side.

The tax bill is an economically indefensible blunder that will harm our future. The Republicans in Congress who must surely know it -- and who have bucked party leaders before -- should vote no.

The United States recorded a government debt equivalent to 106.10 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2016.

In two years you can come back and tell me what percent of GDP our Government Debt is. I believe you will be pleasantly surprised.

2 years? The GOP has had 7 years to fix taxes and did nothing and this one is poop on our door steps. And really, to say what? That it didn't work? And to find out we're 2 trillion dollars more in dept and with no affordable healthcare. No thanks. Write a tax bill that most law makers in DC can agree on and then take care of healthcare. Get off your duffs GOP!

Tax bill boosts oil, gas drilling _ and renewable energy

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/tax-bill-boosts-oil-gas-232107485.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Republicans' tax package would boost traditional forms of energy such as oil and gas while also supporting renewable energy such as wind and solar power — and even extend a hand to buyers of electric cars.

An agreement by House and Senate negotiators would open Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling, while preserving tax credits for wind power and other clean energy. The bill also would extend a tax credit of up to $7,500 for purchases of plug-in electric vehicles such as the Tesla Model 3 and Chevrolet Bolt.

Republicans rolled out the bill late Friday.

Opening the remote Arctic refuge to oil and gas drilling is a longtime Republican priority that most Democrats fiercely oppose. The 19.6-million-acre refuge in northeastern Alaska is one of the most pristine areas in the United States and is home to polar bears, caribou, migratory birds and other wildlife.

Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski and other Republicans say drilling can be done safely with new technology, while ensuring a steady energy supply for West Coast refineries.

Murkowski, who chairs the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, said opening the refuge to drilling is "the single-most important step we can take to strengthen our long-term energy security and create new wealth."

The House and Senate are expected to vote on the $1.5 trillion tax legislation next week as GOP leaders push the most sweeping rewrite of the tax code in more than three decades.

The bill preserves a phase-out of tax incentives for both the solar and wind industries passed in 2015. Tax credits for wind are set to expire in 2020, and solar credits in 2022.

The wind-energy credits are popular with some Republicans, including Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley and South Dakota Sen. John Thune, who worked to defend them after they were curtailed in a version passed by the House.

Electric cars comprise just about 1 percent of sales nationwide, but several states have mandates that such "zero emission vehicles" make up a much larger portion of vehicle sales. Manufacturers worry that eliminating the tax credit would have made those targets virtually impossible to meet.

The Arctic refuge has been the focus of a political fight for nearly four decades. Former President Bill Clinton vetoed a GOP plan to allow drilling in the refuge in 1995, and Democrats led by Washington Sen. Maria Cantwell defeated a similar plan in 2005.

Most congressional Republicans support the drilling plan, including veteran Alaska Rep. Don Young, one of the plan's negotiators. Young called drilling "crucially important to the nation" and said it would decrease U.S. dependence on foreign oil and create jobs for Alaskans.

Democrats and environmental groups say the GOP plan risks spoiling one of the nation's most pristine areas and is especially unwise at a time when U.S. oil production is booming, with imports declining and exports reaching record levels.

Lawmakers "do not need to ruin a wildlife refuge and an ecosystem that is intact just to give tax breaks to big corporations," Cantwell said. "We can do better than this."

Empty out your pockets so you gots room for all the cash Trump is sending you!

Hey I see that Soros and all the billionaire lefty,s and all those millionaire dems in congress are refusing the tax breaks and want to pay more to the IRS........NOT !!!!!!

I also hope that SOROS and pals can still write off their generous contributions to all those anti American hate groups. It would be a shame if he could,nt huh LIBS? lol

Wow, those two posts were so stupid I think they lowered the total iq on Earth.

Disagree all you want NP .....But insults are not nessessary, but I have come to expect that from you hycritcal crazy lefties

In the end, tax cuts are a good thing, for both individuals and corporations. That in turn is good for the country.

Some need to be less focused on what others are getting and focus on what they are getting.

That’s exactly what they want you to do. It’s called ‘slight of hand’. They distract you with a shiny object, a couple hundred bucks extra on your tax return, while they reach into your wallet with the other hand. What you’re saying is “Just be glad we get a little scrap tossed our way. Don’t worry about those that are already doing WAY better than the rest of us as they rob our future blind.”
The extra money these companies are getting is going to lead to higher CEO wages, bonuses, increased tax sheltered profits, and increased mechanization (robots) of factory floors. There’s no reason for a company already making record profits to build more factories or hire more employees.
But you just keep believing that trickle down economics works.
I guess If you squeeze your eyes closed tight enough you’ll see pretty colors. So there’s that.

I agree 100% if your post was meant for me but to bad that not one dem congressperson agrees with your fair assessment ......NOT ONE because Trump is behind it .
All I was trying to do was give the lefty,s a few reasons to like it ,but as usual their unabashed hate for him blinds them to reason......now that's a bunch of low I.Q. sheep .

It DOES go both ways. I think you know that.

Rich people ALSO spend money. A lot. They pay taxes. A lot.

They also buy things "poor" folk can't/don't. And that in itself employees people, and much more.

What we need to do is realize there will always be rich, poor, and somewhere in between. Nothing will change it, ever.

I have no problem with "rich" people, other than at times envy. And envy is a bad thing, really.

Had an opportunity to sit with 3 millionaires last night. It was interesting. Very interesting. Enlightening, actually.

1, before retiring, owned a company that currently employs 250 people, with good paying jobs. And benefits.

He spends money like you can't believe, on, get this, things you and I could never afford. What's that mean? He's buying stuff that is made, or services, that you and I wouldn't be able to. And he, and others like him, are in total keeping many other people employed.

Class envy is easy. I get it sometimes. And then I realize that I, yes, I am envied by some.

I will guarantee you, and your income, are envied by many.

Your response may be "well, maybe, but I have a skill/profession that took a lot of work to achieve. Those that envy me don't have my ability."

And you'd be right, generally speaking. Does that mean you should be taxed at a higher rate? If you're for THAT scenario, great.

Sorry man, you are too worried about what other people make. It's not their fault they make a lot of money. You act like that is a bad thing.

You want things equal on one end but not the other.

We will talk individuals here.

How much is enough tax on one person or family? They drive the same roads as you and I, which are maintained by tax dollars. Garbage pick-up in many areas is tax funded. They produce the same amount of garbage as any other family.


I am not saying they shouldn't pay a higher dollar amount, but when is enough enough? When is it considerded a disproportionate share? It has to be considered that at some point. If you don't think so, we can end the conversation now.


As for business, we had one of the highest tax rates on the globe. We could get away with that when the game was us and pretty much only us. We provided insurance, stability.

Today, other places can offer a company that at much lower tax rates. If you want to offer jobs and investment, we have to understand that we aren't the only game in town any longer.


Wages are dictated by supply and demand, not the government. As jobs are created and business invests in this country, wages will go up as companies compete for the labor force.

You can't artificially set wages. The market has to set wages.


You can set a realistic entry level wage, but you can't say $15, or whatever a hour is the minimum without creating a loss of jobs and investment and or increased prices.


In 1962 the average person made maybe $4500 a year. You could buy a new car for $2500.

Look at how inflation has killed this country.

just saying...

Sen. John McCain returns to Arizona, will miss vote on tax bill

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati...bill/959609001/

So...honest discussion...I read the following link and analyzed the tax brackets:

On the surface - and I admit to being no tax expert - it appears that everyone's tax brackets decreased at least per this article:

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/15/571258698...ould-affect-you

What is the disadvantage to the middle and lower classes, other than the fact that the top echelons will be paying far less taxes (and the wealth gap yet still increasing)? Is there an assertion that the actual deductions and credits for the middle class will be toast? I'm not getting that from just looking at the article. I'm not denying it either, though.

Just trying to understand.

Edit: I also agree that the flagrant lack of revenue and the deficit/debt issue is deeply disturbing. I also wholeheartedly disagree with trickle-down philosophy, and that's solely based on repeated empirical data.

Dow soars 200 points higher as Street cheers upcoming tax bill vote

-The major averages hit intraday records at the open.
-Congress is expected to vote as early as Tuesday on a plan that would slash the federal corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent.
-Wall Street also got a slew of corporate news.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/18/us-stock-futures-data-dow-tax-plan-politics-on-the-agenda.html

Get ready to end Welfare as Trump and the Republicans provide cash and jobs for everyone! Two jobs if'n you want them!

With the changes made to the Bill last week almost everybody should save a few bucks, or at least come close to breaking even from the old tax laws. Those who it may still hurt are the ones with low income who want to keep their health insurance but who will no longer get a kickback from the government to help them afford it.

Before they made the changes I was looking at a HUGE increase in my taxes, now I have not figured it exactly but I think it's only about a $40.00 increase for me.

That's great But what about medicare/medicade for those of us who can not work a full time job?

Patience my man, America can't be made great again in a day!

But I want it and I want it NOW.

Did I sound like a Millennial

I read a large chunk of the tax plan over the weekend, at least those sections not involving businesses. First of all, there'a a ton of provisions that they are leaving alone, despite retoric of the the last month or two.

Regardless, I find this statment ironic considering they lowered federal taxes on beer, wine, and spirits in the bill.

Maybe so but they increased the tax on women

I found it on Amazon for $37

and on Ebay for $27

The want it now on Ebay is used.

Distracted Democrats blew their chance to defeat tax reform bill

-The tax reform bill now looks like a lock to pass Congress and be signed by President Trump.
-The Democrats blew their chance to defeat this bill as they focused on long shot efforts to impeach President Trump.
-Even now, Democrats like Senators Dianne Feinstein aren't making strong and consistent anti-tax bill arguments.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/18/democrats-failed-to-give-tax-reform-proper-attention-commentary.html