DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Fixing the Browns this off season...

I think I'd rather have Kizer start than Eli. I am not a huge Eli fan in the first place because of his B.S. when he was drafted, plus he's been in decline for multiple years and I have not seen him play well this year. I have a die hard friend who is a Giants fan and he too is of the opinion Eli is totally done ....

Give me Alex Smith - and the same set of circumstances, I'd be okay with it.

Mo Purple needed. I am not sold on Kizer at all - but neither do I want to give up on him.

If the choice right now was Eli or Kizer I would take Kizer (sorry - mistyped that first time around).

Eli is done, done, done. We know that. Kizer has a chance to improve.

I like you too - and I wasn't being snarky, just expressing total dislike for Eli. I'd trade away a 3rd round pick for McCarron before I'd sign Eli. I'd resign McCown before Eli. I'd Start any of the top 5 QB's that probably will be in the draft before Eli. It's not love for Kizer - it's my conviction that Eli is totally done.

Eli is dome Tab. The Giants know it. If anyone would know, it would be the Giants. Our rosters are comparable and they're drafting right behind us. That speaks volumes.

Wow, I never thought you'd suggest drafting an RB at #2. Are you sure that you wouldn't go QB at #2 and FS at #4?

Great example on when to delete a post. Kizer accomplishments...He hit his ceiling in the Lions game. Eli accomplishments... 2 Superbowls....

J/C

What could very well be the final game Kirk Cousins plays for the Skins: 20/37 for 158 yards and 3 interceptions. Had 1 run for a 12 yard TD.

And on a side note, since coming to San Fran-Jimmy G is 5-0

Positives from this season:
Miles Garrett, the kid played hurt all season and still got a decent sack total playing in 11 games. When he is healthy and having been in this defense a second year I expect he will blossom and be a real asset.
David Njoku: I knew he was an athletic specimen, but he has been a pleasant surprise this season. I can't wait to see how he performs when we have a a better offense to compliment him. If he continues on this path he looks to be a special player.
Our defense in general, especially our run defense. For the most part we stopped the run very well this year. I can't remember the last time I could say that with a straight face. It was before the move that's for sure. I like Greg Williams and I think if we give him the players going into this second season in this scheme our D could be pretty good.

That is about it. Not much else to be happy about. We need a LOT of help and our new GM better start spending in free agency as well as hit on these high draft picks. With Joe Thomas being a question we not only need a QB we need a Left Tackle as well. Corners, a Running Back and a #1 Wide Receiver just to start off. Lots of holes and lots of work to do. He better hit the ground running. Especially in FA where we have not been active enough.

Coach Jackson better hire a damned good Offensive Coordinator and concentrate on being a better Head Coach.

Hottest team in football. See what happens when you have an ocean near by.

and have Shanahan running the offense. Man, I miss him. We actually RAN the ball when he was here.

It's all up to Dorsey now to find a quarterback. It's all that's left to hope for.

Not an enviable task...

other than kindred or peppers at strong safety I hope none of our other def backs are starting next year. I am so tired of seeing 10 yd cushions from our corners.

As if that's on the corners. They're just doing what their coach tells them to do.

and he is telling them that because they cannot cover. so he surrenders short passes to avoid giving up bombs. give us two young press corners next year and you will not see ten yard cushions.

I think Williams knew the offense sucked and was trying to do some things to mitigate the fact that the Browns weren't going to score many points and his defense would often be put in compromising situations.

I'm not saying I agreed with it, but he saw the offense in practice every day. He probably went home each night and thought to himself "why did I take a high school coaching gig". I bet if you ran into him in a bar and asked him what he thought of the offense, he'd probably tell you it was the worst he had ever seen in his entire coaching career.

Most everyone who knows jack about football knew this secondary sucked. They're being told to play in a way they are capable of playing. If they could actually cover anyone we could play press. They can't so we don't.

McCourty, Kindred, and BBC played well this year. Taylor and Peppers did not. I'm not sure any other group of DB's would have done any better giving up that much cushion on every play. If we would have mixed it up a little more, it would have been more successful. But making it our base defense made it clear to other teams that the short passes were going to work consistently on 3rd down.

If you honestly believe those players could be counted on to play press coverage you're going to be sorely disappointed when they get replaced by players that can. The reason they were played deep was because if they played press we would have gotten burnt long on a consistent basis.

Browns fans are like other fans across the league. They often overvalue their own players.

This. I've been playing around with mock drafts and every time I look at a corner, I'm thinking, "Love this pick... unless he's told to line up 15 yards off in a 3rd & 1."

Gregg Williams needs to take a look at himself this offseason because he's held his players back.

Yeah, almost everybody knew our secondary blew chunks before the season started. Now, with everyone all butt hurt, that's somehow Williams fault.

They sucked, but is that really an excuse for putting them in a position where the scheme failed the players rather than the players failing the scheme?

For me, that's like Jackson getting a pass on the running game even though Kizer struggled. No doubt, but the wilful decision to leave the run game isn't something I support, even with a struggling quarterback.

I can defend Williams if the players let him down, but I won't naturally assume that's why he consistently let the players down.

I understand what happened and why...but what GW schemed did not work...yet he stuck with it...and we STILL got beat deep. Example: Hundley was not going to beat us deep...but GW schemed like he was playing the rapist.

There all-too-often appeared to be no scheming for that day's opponent...which I can also say for Hue.

I don't really understand how you know with certainty, or at least it seems that way, that these CB's couldn't play press coverage yet you fault Williams for them not playing press coverage.

You can only play the players that are on your roster. Without CB's who can actually play press coverage and without a legitimate FS, I have no idea what you expected.

As for Jackson not running the ball. Everyone seems to believe that I give Hue a pass on everything. I certainly do not. I think there were a lot of games where we should have ran the ball more. You can't establish the running game if you don't run the ball.

Unlike some others, I don't really believe it would have helped us as much as some believe. But that doesn't mean that he shouldn't have tried to force the issue more.

I disagree with you about the D scheme. Not that it was a good scheme, but that it was the only choice we had based on the lack of talent in the secondary. If we had played press coverage, even Hundley could have beaten us deep.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree about that one.

John Kosko
@PFF_JohnKosko
#Browns run press coverage on 26.5% of their plays - lowest rate in NFL

In press: 4 TD, 3 INT, 75.7 passer rating - 8th best.
No press: 22 TD, 3 INT, 117.3 - dead last.

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Here’s what I need help with ....

- blitzing when your playing at least one of your safeties 25 yards deep and leaving the middle of the field wide open ....

And thats the BEST BLITZ formation we ever showed ... sometimes both safeties would be playing in another zip code and the cb’s were giving 10 yard cushions ...

U need to explain to me how BLITZING is ever going to work when u give away the middle of the field starting 5 yards down the field ...

It makes no sense bro ... if your going to blitz ... your db’s best be playing tight ...

If they can’t play tight .. then DON’T BLITZ SO DAMM MUCH!!!!!

Please ... explain to me what the logic is behind playing your db’s in another zip code AND blitzing at the same damm time ...

Thats where i am MIFFED AS HELL!!!!

Please help me out and LOGICALLY EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THAT WORKS ....

I'm sure they all ignored Williams asking them to play press. Sounds rational.

Tom Carter
@TJCarter26
Passing touchdowns allowed while blitzing in 2017:

1. #Browns 17
2. #Texans 15
3. #Colts 13
.
NFL Average 8.2
.
30. #GoBills 2
31. #Chargers 2
32. #Jaguars 1

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j/c:

I have some questions.

How often did Williams play this type of defense w/the Rams? The Saints? The Redskins? Jacksonville? Buffalo? Titans?

I don't recall his defenses looking like this year's version. In fact, before the season cfrs was posting stats about how we would line up based on what GW did w/the Rams. Those looks were almost completely opposite of what Williams did this year.

This leads me to conclude that the talent on this year's D greatly influenced how GW ran his defense.

I get that the above doesn't fit the narrative of how we should fire our coaching staff, but I'm glad that Haslam is finally ignoring the fans who are wanting him to blow things up every two years.

For QB in my scenario, I had us signing Kirk Cousins as a FA - why use a top 5 pick on a QB when you have a 29 year old guy signed to a 5 year deal? If it were an Alex Smith or Eli Manning, I'd agree 100% with you for sure.

So we taught guys to play wrong basically. Not conducive to CORRECTLY training the young, inexperienced kids to play football.
Put them in their correct position and if they get roasted so be it. Live and learn.

The plan was to lose. We lost and Peppers didn't really benefit because he played center field...

Actually that's the part of it that I have no explanation for. lol

You see, I can't and won't uphold Hue or Williams for the things they did wrong. And your description certainly shows something I can't and won't uphold.

I will however debate anyone who wishes to try to fault Williams for not playing this secondary tight. He simply didn't have the personnel to do that.

Yeah, expecting them to do things that they aren't capable of doing would have been so much better.

Gregg Williams said this on 12/15/17.....

Daryl Ruiter Verified account
@RuiterWrongFAN
Gregg Williams mentions that he's been forced to play zone this year more than ever - "you can figure out the reasons for that." #Browns

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And then there's this......

John Kosko
@PFF_JohnKosko
#LARams 2016 coverage schemes
Zone: 63%
Man: 31%
Misc/RZ: 6%

#Browns 2017 coverage schemes
Zone: 65%
Man: 29%
Misc/RZ: 6%

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What point are you trying to make? Seriously?

Gregg Williams is a moron. Good luck understanding the logic behind any of his moves. I wish you all luck and hope you each have a medical cabinet full of ibuprofen.

You asked what type of defense Gregg played previously. I responded in-kind.