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I am not going to get into a debate or argument about my thoughts, but I want to post my thoughts on the current state of the team and welcome for others to do the same.
--I am relieved the season is over. It was frustrating watching this team find ways to lose games each week.
--I feel that Haslam might finally be getting it. I am so glad he isn't listening to the dumb-ass fans and whiners in the media and instead has chose to stick w/Hue and continuity. I feel this is very important to our success moving forward. I think that people made/are making way to much out of comments, time management, and play calling.
--I think Dorsey is a good football guy and he and Hue will actually work together, which is going to be so awesome to see after watching regime after regime after regime not work together. The ability to work together is going to be another important ingredient in the Browns turning things around.
--I think that under Dorsey's direction, the team will utilize their draft assets and turn them into players instead of trading away those picks.
--I think we know we need to win some games right away and that we utilize all that cap money we have and bring in some quality free agents. I think vets who have experienced winning will be brought in to help change the losing culture that was established by the previous FO.
--I hope we draft Josh Rosen at 1-1. I think he is far superior to any qb in the draft. The more I watch and learn, the more I think Rosen is the only plausible choice.
--I think we need to upgrade the WR position. We need some route runners. Guys w/reliable hands. Hopefully Gordon can stay clean. He will be an asset, but he needs help. C. Coleman is so disappointing. Louis stinks. We need a lot of help on that unit.
--I wouldn't mind a vet TE to add some stability to that unit.
--All four secondary guys can go as far as I am concerned. They won't all go, but that is how bad this unit is. We are forced to compensate the D because our safeties can't cover anyone and this forces our LBers to play more coverage than they should. Our corners can get beat over the top and this leads us to playing too deep. It is imperative we upgrade this unit considerably.
--I would get Duke locked up as soon as possible.
--I was hoping we would keep Crow once Dorsey came in, but I think Crow has burned some bridges. I'm not positive about that, but it's the feeling I get.
--I think we need another guy on the DL who can pressure the qb. It's bad news when you have to blitz as much as we do to generate pressure.
--I'm hoping that Myles puts in a ton of off-season work that will help him improve his hand-fighting and learning some counter moves.
--I think Joe T will be back because Hue will be back. I think he was out the door had we dumped Hue.
Summary: I think this team has a lot of holes and is still inexperienced, but I think we are moving in the right direction. Those of you who have read me for years haven't heard me utter those words too many times.
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My Post Season Thoughts:
- I am overjoyed the season is over. What a waste of a day sundays have been. They really have been.
- I have been behind Hue and continutity for a long time. I have to say, no more. I am sorry, we will disagree on this. I don't care what your roster is, LITERALLY any person on earth could have done the job Hue did this year. And just by percentages, he should have won more than he has here. 1-31. 1 and frickin 31. I don't think people realize how awful that is. As bad as 0-16 is, 1-31 is just INSANELY horrid. From ownership down, they should all be FIRED. Too bad we cant fire the owner though.
- I am not putting too much into Dorsey. Yes, he has a resume. But lets be honest, why would he have been so eager to join this disaster mid-way through, knowing that he has to share power with the HC? the same HC that is 1-31? Doesn't make sense. Something tells me there is a reason Dorsey is here, and its not because he is the best prospect in the game.
- I will disagree on BBC in the secondary, but the rest can pucker up and kiss off. They stink
- Myles needs to learn to stay healthy, and STAY FREAKING ONSIDES. He had to have led the league in offside penalties. THAT IS POOR COACHING!
- I think our DL is vastly overrated. Outside of Myles we and Ogbah we just don't get pressure.
- Trade coleman, he stinks. Gordon needs to stay clean, but we need HELP BAD!!!
- I think QB 1 (Rosen or Mayfield will make me happy) and RB Barkley out of Penn state will DRASTICALLY change this offense.
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Areas to seriously upgrade: WR, QB, CB, S
Areas to minorly upgrade: RT, RB
I also think it's imperative that Njoku and Garrett develop and our LBs stay healthy
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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~ Legend
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Glad to see you back, Vers.
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This team has sucked the football--watching life out of me. I used to enjoy the game. I really don't anymore. When I watch other teams/games it's like watching another sport. Yet, I've watched every Sunday out of some hope/tradition I have that maybe that day will be the day the team turns the proverbial corner.
That being said, I cannot fathom how Hue still has a job here. It baffles me to no end. But since he does I hope and pray the lights come on and s**t gets real.
We need a veteran QB. Hell, I'd take any veteran that can bring leadership and stability to an offense that has none. I'd like to see us draft a QB and develop that QB behind said veteran.
We need help in the secondary and bad. Jabril needs to play a more traditional safety role and getting some help back there to do that would markedly improve an already improved unit.
I think Garret is Courtney Brown 2.0. Granted he was hindered by an ankle injury, but so was Brown hobbled by this and that. Maybe he heals up and proves me wrong. I'd like that. He got double teamed a lot so maybe we need to look at getting a DT in the draft that can be a three down lineman and take some of the double teaming away.
We need a game changer in the backfield. I'd like to look at Chubb or Barkley paired with Duke.
That's about all I can think of right now.
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Legend
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I was going to make a similar thread...so will simply add to yours. Didn't read any thoughts prior to making my post...will read them after.
1. Frustration, Every Browns fan has to be frustrated including my self. Losing is the worst feeling and we as fans are helpless as we don't really have any control of things. So as my wife says. They don't hear you...
2. I do like the fact that despite public unrest Haslams haven't fired our coaching staff and are maintaining the course.
3. We got a football guy to shore the FO up but also have kept Paul DePodesta from what I hear so I found that to be satisfying as a fan in a quest for Continuity. Of course is what we got good enough to continue with. I think so and in lieu of complete change/insanity again I'm glad we are sticking with it.
4. State of the Browns. In an era where the position QB which has always been very important to the status of a team has risen even higher in the importance of the success for the game. We had the absolute worse QB room as they say. A rookie and two mid round picks from 2016. Just a terrible QB room talent wise but most important experience wise. We had a Kindergarten Class while the rest of the NFL were in High School. I liked Sashi but because of this one reason I'm not sorry that he is gone ONE BIT.
5. So that most important Status of our team position wise has to be Redone. I'm hoping for a Vet of starting caliber as well as a Franchise QB prospect from the 2018 draft and keep Kizer and develop him for the simple reason of YOU NEVER KNOW...So as a fan we are on a wait and see status regarding this team which revolves around the QB position.
6. The rest of the team I think is on a solid foundation. Note the operative word here is FOUNDATION. There is building still to be done.
7. Defense, I really like Williams but we need to build a lot more than people think on the defense. McCourty, Boddy Calhoun are keepers but should be #3 n #4 CBs we need two studs. Safeties: I like Peppers a lot more than most here. I also like Kndred and thought he had a good season. But we need more depth.
Our D front 7 starters I think are good which doesn't mean we don't upgrade on any. But the D 7 are rotational and once we take out the starting 4 DL there is a big drop with the 2nd unit.
Collins, Kirksey and Schobert are good but they can be upgraded on. I think the starting 3 are very sound with Collins being the questionable one if you ask me even though he has a load of individual talent.
The key to this Defense who I think are just a bit better than average in league comparison need those stud corners to turn the corner to Championship caliber Defense. That is the big key in 2018...FA and Draft...get those corners!
8. Offense.
As mentioned before QB it has to be a priority.
WRs I like Gordon, Coleman, Duke and Higgins the rest can go and we can upgrade on what we got if the opportunity arises.
TEs...I like both Njoku and Devalve both young and improving, I saw improvement in Devalve's blocking as the season was winding down. Njoku - blocking is not a variable he yet possesses, he is a liability in that area but a great Receiving Talent....I think he can become one of the best TEs in the air game.
RBs. We can kiss Crowell good bye. Not a bad RB but not good, this draft class is a very good RB class and it is a position that Rookies can provide impact. Also there are veterans that will be available through FA and probably cheaper then Crowell's asking price. Unfortunately for Crowell he will find out he was not as valuable as he thinks and will be crawling back to us but find that we have moved on.
Duke I think has a great future as a WR and pending what kind of stud RB we get his reps as a RB will diminish. But we can keep both RBs and motion out one or both as WR additions. Actually a lot can be done with our RBs with motion and different options.
OL. I think we should continue our search for OTs 5th 6th rounders won't really do although I think Shon Coleman was a 3rd rounder? He did improve and Drango impressed considering who he was replacing. We can easily upgrade.
We are set at LG/RG we need depth and Tretter is serviceable as a Center again if we can upgrade in a BPA situation, do it!
9. Dorsey is a big time key. Lets see the move to a football guy turn this thing around. Tons of Cap Room for FA and we hold 4 of the top 35 picks in the draft 2 in the first two rounds 1st n 4th and then 1st and 3rd.
This is a great opportunity for us!
Get these picks right and we are on our way fellow dawgs!
jmho as always, I think our future is brighter than most would think. 0-16 a new low but if accompanied in 2018 as the biggest improvement in wins in NFL history that would make up for it
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I think that under Dorsey's direction, the team will utilize their draft assets and turn them into players instead of trading away those picks. I hope so. This is the one glaring failure the Browns have had since their return. We do have to give Kizer credit for surviving the season without injury, which we all know is very rare.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Legend
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You don't want to argue or debate, yet you start off by calling those that don't want to stick with Hue "dumb ass fans and whiners"? 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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You don't want to argue or debate, yet you start off by calling those that don't want to stick with Hue "dumb ass fans and whiners"? Well he wasn't arguing it or debating it - he was stating it as fact... lol
Maybe not in those words but I agree with Vers on this.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Welcome back ... The board isn’t the same without u ... the football IQ sinks to very very low levels w/o u around .... Happy new year ...  THRILLED this season is over ... losing to Pitt’s BACKUPS was the final shovel of dirt over this horrible ass season’s grave .... GOOD RIDDANCE and thank god its behind us .... Looking forward to FA ... looking forward to the DRAFT ... looking forward to next season ... lets hope your right about Dorsey ... As for this season ... for me it boils down to one word .... QUARTERBACK ... we were a QB away from being a 5 or 6 win team ... NEVER in my wildest dreams did i ever think we’d somehow be WORSE AT QB this year than we were last year ... it was UNCOMPREHENSIBLE to me ... I literally thinught it was IMPOSSIBLE ... well .. as usual .. i was proven wrong ... *L* ... The most frustrating things to me this season were ... and this is after QUARTEBACK PLAY ... thats #1 ... the rest of this list is way down the line compared to the QB play ... - Williams scheme ... u don’t play your db’s and safeties way off the line when your going to blitz so dam much ... made no sense to me .. STILL DOESN’T ... - Hue not sticking to the run .... i wouldn’t get that with a vet qb so doing it with a not near ready rookie is beyond fathomable to me ... - Williams use of Peppers ... i’m not sure what Peppers learned that will help him in the future as far as development goes ... - very very worried about MG’s ankles ... i really hope they don’t dictate how good he will be ... - I’m glad sashi’s gone ... hopefully Dorsey gets enough scouts and good sound football people under him ... - am ambilvelnt with Hue staying .. its good for continuity ... so in that regard its good and i can see that side of the argument ... i have ZERO RESPECT left for the man himself ... if we win a SB with him .. i’ll be happy for us, not him ... just like with the thief ... It’ll be very interesting to see how the team reacts to him after the last 6 weeks or so of Hue throwing them under the bus on multiple occasions ... Thats all my thoughts for now ... i’m sure i’ll Have more ... 
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I think that under Dorsey's direction, the team will utilize their draft assets and turn them into players instead of trading away those picks. I hope so. This is the one glaring failure the Browns have had since their return. We do have to give Kizer credit for surviving the season without injury, which we all know is very rare. My brother mentioned that. Sadly, that is probably the first time I can even remember that happening in the last 18 years!
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Legend
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I mentioned this earlier, but I think perhaps the most important thing we have going for us is that we apparently have a FO and coaching staff that wants to work together.
I was listening to Louis Riddick, who is the best analyst in the business and he was talking about the disconnect between the FO's and coaching staffs in Cleveland and Cinci and how you can't overcome that.
I agree and it is my hope that Hue and his staff will be able to talk to Dorsey and his staff about what they need and that the latter group will then go out and get those types of players for the team.
I just read that Dorsey is talking to Highsmith today. He would be an excellent acquisition to this FO. He apparently is a fine talent evaluator and I believe he has some familiarity w/Dorsey.
Things are going to be looking up soon.
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You don't want to argue or debate, yet you start off by calling those that don't want to stick with Hue "dumb ass fans and whiners"? Well he wasn't arguing it or debating it - he was stating it as fact... lol
Maybe not in those words but I agree with Vers on this. Sorry, I cannot agree with 1-31
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J/C
I will also say if Hue is still around, he best be hiring an OC.
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They took a raw,rookie qb with a strong arm and gpod legs but little of nothing else and proceeded to make this a pass 1st offense You see the result The worst turnover margin in the NFL They went into the season trying to Make Brookie ozwriler a number 1 qb Epic fail
The offense was undisciplined with oline penalties at crucial times Wrs dropping passes at a High rate TE not finishing out routes
Defensively where is the difference makers at ? How is Greg Williams still employed ? The Browns need a serious tone setter on this defense The front 7 is SOFT . Their isn't one front 7 player that could start for the Ravens Steelers othan Garrett and Garrett even played below T.J Watt and Matthew Judon.
Special.teams needs a serious overhaul It's so porous it can't even give a rookie qb a short field from time to time
1 31. That's unprecedented in the NFL Those who are preaching continuity and slobbering all over that term remember continuity It's only working when progress is being made Other than that it's a word to keep the Homers happy and keeping the faith
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At this point with what has been decided by Haslam in regards to the firing of Sashi Brown. Hiring John Dorsey and retaining Hue Jackson.
Hue Jackson and Dorsey have to share the same vision in order for this to work.
If you look at the Pat's(BB head coach and GM), Ravens and Steelers continuity between the HC position and the GM is the key to consistent success. There are some ups and downs but they just reload.
The Browns are facing many personnel decisions on the roster, in the draft, and free agency.
Hue and Dorsey have to be in lock step in order to build long term success.
It starts at quarterback. Inexcusable to go into the 2017 season with Kizer, Hogan and Kessler. They had never won a game. So going 0-16 is no surprise when you add the quarterback play to a roster as inexperienced as the Browns roster.
We have mucho cap space and heavy draft capital.
The Browns with sound decisions can make major improvements.
Right now I am optimistic. Hope springs eternal.
I sure hope I remain optimistic when the off season ends and training camp begins.
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additions in offseason.
1. Qb- Rosen would also be my first choice from college. I would not mind if we went after bridge water or cousins in fa.
2. Cb- I will be happy if our cornerback roster is completely changed and all our current cbs are gone. our defense will be dramatically improved with two young press corners. Dramatically.
3. Between peppers and kindred we have our strong safeties. we desparately need a quality free safty. that Minkah something would be a good choice at 4.
4. Wide receiver needs attention as well. I am not sure how deep the draft class is but one or two in picks 33-65 would be nice. If we could actually land a quality receiver in free agency that would be great but we seem to pick losers in that area.
5.with one of those picks at 33-65 could we land an offensive tackle? perhaps the eventual lt when joe retires.
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I'm all for continuity but at some point continuity turns into foolish consistency. IMO, that point is somewhere around 1-31.
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Coaching / FO - I'm not going to debate Hue, its a done deal for one more yr. Looks like the Browns are serious about hiring a new OC, welcomed. Also, there's talk about help in scouting / asst. GM, Good. Must change, our ST coach, a total negative, weakness.
QB- Veteran, we need to stabilize that position, on the field & to mentor who ever is that QB room. Cousins or Smith are my first choices, but it's going to take a tonne of cash for them to even listen. If it does happen, great possibilities at the top of the draft.
WR- Outside of Gordon, I'm not impressed with any of the group. I hope Coleman really takes a hard look at what he's accomplished in two yrs. & works his butt off to play up to his draft position. We need at least two more WR's, one or two in the draft, & FA.
DB's- FS for sure & someone that can play without giving 20 yds. Press corners needed, PLEASE!!! This concept of giving a ten yard cushion every play is crazy. Second round talent minimum or FA, but again, it's going to be very expensive. I would love to see two quality prospects in the draft.
DE- A must, we couldn't generate any pressure when Ogbah went down, & our run D suffered, quality depth needed. I'm OK with giving this current inside group a pass.
Tackle- I was OK with Coleman for his first yr. A lot of mistakes, but I think he can improve. I feel we need to work on a understudy for Joe, NOW. It will be a very tough FO call in the draft, but if there's any quality on the board after 1 & 4, it might happen. If it does, look for a new RT next yr.
RB- Resign Duke as fast as you can. Crow is gone, but there's plenty of quality backs in the draft, even in round 3.
My wish list- Draft- Chubb & Fitz at one, providing we get one the above mentioned QB's. let Kizer sit & learn. Draft a quality WR & Corner at 2. Let Smiths drafting eye take care of the rest. I would also like to see a few promising fifth yr. guys for experience & leadership in FA. One more thing, I would love to see the Browns get off their wallets & invest in one of those Virtual Reality simulators & chain Kizer to it.
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First priorities, sign an OC and a veteran QB. I'd like to see some money spent in FA, particularly for guys like Keenum or Smith, and maybe Joyner, but I don't see a whole lot of talent to be had that would be immediate upgrades (other than QB), that we can't pick up in the draft. Guys like Bell, Ansah, Butler, Richardson, Landry & Graham are either declining, will be extremely expensive, or will just likely be looking for a big payday for little effort. For example, I would rather try to get Sutton or St. Brown over Allen Robinson or Watkins. Jimmy Graham might be a guy I'd take for leadership, and if he can be had for a reasonable contract I'd like to have him. If not, oh well, and we continue to develop Njoku & Devalve.
Draft Rosen.
We need a FS. I have that as our second greatest need. I want Minkah, I'll take Derwin James, I don't know if I can leave the draft without one of them, and maybe even grab Blanding or Whitehead to add depth if we don't sign Joyner. We need a good corner. Second tier is probably all that will be available. I have my eye on both Jaire Alexander and Isaiah Oliver. I would love to snag both.
Receivers, I'd like Sutton, Aitman, Cobbs or St. Brown on the outside, and maybe Pettis or Gallup inside... I would also seriously look at moving Coleman to the slot. He's not an outside receiver, IMHO.
Running backs. Draft a good one. Guise, Sony Michel, Chubb, just get a good one.
That takes care of the weapons to surround the QB with.
Next, Install a system that works to the strengths of the talent. With the influx of offensive talent and the addition of a QB, this team should change the entire dynamic. Scoring drives instead of turnovers and three and outs will make a huge difference, and our Defense will look much better.
Then we add the CB, and FS, and possibly an inside pass rusher to complete the transition. I know our secondary takes a lot of crap, but I'm okay with McCourty, Peppers & BBC. Add the safety and a corner, get the D off the field once in a while, and with Ogbah & Garret healthy, it's a pretty good defense, IMO. Good enough to win games with an offense who can score.
Two QBs, an OC, a little work in FA, and a great draft and we're on the way to a 6-10, 7-9 season, IMO.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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J/C Do you all realize that the alphabet has as many W's as Hue Jackson does as the coach of the Browns? Let THAT sink in for a minute.  it almost literally hurts.
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He's the Browns coach for 2018. Let that sink in. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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He's the Browns coach for 2018. Let that sink in. god help us.
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Legend
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J/C Do you all realize that the alphabet has as many W's as Hue Jackson does as the coach of the Browns? Let THAT sink in for a minute.  it almost literally hurts. OMG ... thanks for putting that into perspective for us ... NOT .... where is that middle finger emoji when u need it ...  .... WOW ... that’s HISTORICALLY BAD ..... To get to 500 here ... he’d have to go 31 - 1 ... HUES GOT THIS ... 
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J/C Do you all realize that the alphabet has as many W's as Hue Jackson does as the coach of the Browns? Let THAT sink in for a minute.  it almost literally hurts. OMG ... thanks for putting that into perspective for us ... NOT .... where is that middle finger emoji when u need it ...  .... WOW ... that’s HISTORICALLY BAD ..... To get to 500 here ... he’d have to go 31 - 1 ... HUES GOT THIS ... I get continuity. but when you want continuity to spite your own face, well that's just nuts. I was for giving chud time, I was for giving romeo time, I was for giving pettine time. The fact of the matter is, Hue Jackson is the worse HC in football history. That is just a plain fact. 9-39 lifetime folks.
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Let me ask a question for those that say we need to stay put w/ HC.
If Billy B went 0-16 next year, do you think Kraft would still retain him?
What about Mike Tomlin?
The would be gone. So allllll this "hue is respected around the league" crap - no coach should or would survive Hue Jacksons record.
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Legend
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--I am relieved the season is over. It was frustrating watching this team find ways to lose games each week. == AGREE!
--I feel that Haslam might finally be getting it. == I don't share your optimism. Maybe it's a turning point but I think he's still a bad owner until he proves otherwise. Keeping Hue might be for multiple reasons and they don't all mean he gets it.... the removing Sashi and having Dorsey lined up spooke more to me about haslam making some progress than keeping Hue. jmo.
--I think Dorsey is a good football guy and he and Hue will actually work together. == If we are going to be significantly better, quickly this HAS to be the case. I think it is.
--I think that under Dorsey's direction, the team will utilize their draft assets and turn them into players instead of trading away those picks. == I think this was they year Sashi would have splashed in FA and the draft - jmo but I always thought the rebuild was about year 3. Whether Dorsey gets better talent we'll have to wait and see.
--I think we know we need to win some games right away and that we utilize all that cap money we have and bring in some quality free agents. == We gotta save SOME cap space if the plan is to build a sustainable winning team. We have enough cap space to land 2 or 3 starters and keep enough to resign future stars like Ogbah.
--I hope we draft Josh Rosen at 1-1. I think he is far superior to any qb in the draft. The more I watch and learn, the more I think Rosen is the only plausible choice. == I haven't watched the QB's yet. I doubt he is the 'only' plausible guy, but if he's the best and his attitude passes the test, I'm all for it.
--I think we need to upgrade the WR position. We need some route runners. Guys w/reliable hands. Hopefully Gordon can stay clean. He will be an asset, but he needs help. C. Coleman is so disappointing. Louis stinks. == Higgins finally stepped up and actually impressed me. Coleman has been disappinting, but he's more than decent for WR2 or WR3. But I agree I'd love to see a major signing/upgrade (and that does not mean TP - who is freakish athletic but not a refined WR good at route running!).
--I wouldn't mind a vet TE to add some stability to that unit. == I really think we have a nice core. I'm okay without adding here.
--All four secondary guys can go as far as I am concerned. == We'll see what happens with Peppers. At this point it's a prayer coz he has not been good as what we've seen.... McCourty was decent and I have no issue with BBC.
--I would get Duke locked up as soon as possible. == Agree
--I was hoping we would keep Crow once Dorsey came in, but I think Crow has burned some bridges. == I feel the same way.
--I think we need another guy on the DL who can pressure the qb. == Yep - once Ogbah went down we were putrid. We have some nice pieces but I'd like some additional top level depth, or even an elite interior piece
--I'm hoping that Myles puts in a ton of off-season work that will help him improve his hand-fighting and learning some counter moves. == I think MG is a stud and will explode next year provided he is not hampered by injury.
--I think Joe T will be back because Hue will be back. == I think he's back too. I have no idea if he'd have left if Hue left. I did see that Joe sang Hue's praises.
Summary: I think this team has a lot of holes and is still inexperienced, but I think we are moving in the right direction.
I'll come round by the time the free agents are signed and the draft is near ... hard not to get excited about so many very high draft picks. But I'm pretty apathetic right now ... I really don't see that our talent level (other than the rookie QB situation) is that of a 1-31 team. I like our DL and the LBers - I don't understand how we didn't get any consistent pressure .... I like Duke, Crow, the OL is solid even with Shon Coleman having a penalty every game .... WR's were bad before JG came back. But JG, Higgins and Coleman would not be the worst starting WR's in the NFL. . . . so while I am ok Hue is staying and I want to see what he can do with a better QB in play (whether it's Kizer a year older and significantly better, whether it's Smith/Cousins/Bridgewater/Bradford/McCarron or even a rookie like Rosen) .... but man it's also pretty sickening that he's 1-31 because I simply believe many other HC's in the NFL would have found ways to win more.
Last edited by mgh888; 01/02/18 04:26 PM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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It's certainly been a dismal season. I think we're all glad it's over. From the reactions on the board, I think I was a little more prepared for it than most were. But it does seem like a common occurrence that our fan base vastly overrates our talent level. Almost half our roster is first and second year players and our depth is porous at best. So with that out of the way, let's move on from there.....
1. Draft your franchise QB. Josh Rosen would be my selection. He's as ready to start in the NFL as any QB drafted since Andrew Luck. To me this is a clear cut no brainer.
2. Bringing in Dorsey was a great move. I believe what this does as much as anything is bring some football credibility to the organization. I'm not sure that trying to sign FA's with your head of football operations being a numbers guy with little to no actual football experience in his resume' seems like an attractive destination. Finding real football players isn't easily done using statistics alone. It just doesn't work that way. Hopefully Dorsey's resume' will go a long way with helping FA signings.
3. This secondary is atrocious. Fixing it will be a balancing act. With drafting a QB at the top of the draft, you will need to put talent around him. Yet the secondary has to be addressed as well. With the draft picks and salary cap available to us, I believe both areas can be addressed.
4. Draft. While I've already stated my wishes for Rosen to be the #1 pick, I believe that our draft strategy should be vastly different this time around. We have an abundance of youth on our roster. So much so that having a boat load of rookies coming into camp may be more of a problem than a solution at this juncture. I believe this draft should be focused on quality over quantity. The focus should be on trading up to acquire the best talent in this draft rather than using the "stocking the cupboards" method we've been using the past couple of years.
5. Hue. I'm really not trying to uphold every move Hue has made or every statement he's made, but he's not a professional PR man, he's a football coach. So it's only natural that there will be gaffs in some of his statements. Could he have won two or three games if he would have made some different decisions? Possibly but there's no actual proof that's true. And I'm not sure how much better it is to win two or three games than it is no games. Maybe it would give some people a little of a warm fuzzy feeling, but I don't think so. I would just like to see him given a chance with a roster that has the talent to win with to see what he can really do. If he doesn't make the most of it, let Dorsey pick a new coach.
6. Blind optimism or total despair. It seems there are only two extremes when it comes to most of our fans. They see things that aren't there when it comes to the talent on our team and then when that talent isn't there, it's total frustration and the clean house mentality comes in. That's the vicious cycle we've been on since our return in 1999. It has gotten us to where we are now. At some point we just need to take a moment and just breathe. Let me know when our HC feels the need to flip a coin when deciding who our starting QB is and then get back to me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Let me ask a question for those that say we need to stay put w/ HC.
If Billy B went 0-16 next year, do you think Kraft would still retain him?
What about Mike Tomlin?
The would be gone. So allllll this "hue is respected around the league" crap - no coach should or would survive Hue Jacksons record. Let us know when their roster and QB situation even comes close to resembling ours and maybe you would be making a valid point.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I would just like to see him given a chance with a roster that has the talent to win with to see what he can really do. I disagree. We were in many games this year. We could not win them because of stupid plays and penalties. That is coaching to me.
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- Glad the season is over. Don't want to sound all "moral victory"-ish, but we were in quite a few games this year. I'm hoping that with an influx of talent, we can turn many of those close losses into wins and we start looking more like a respectable team.
- Considering the Front Office turmoil that could of happened, I'm okay with replacing Sashi with Dorsey. I honestly think Sashi did what he was supposed to do, I just don't think they realized that the results of a complete tear-down would be as catastrophic as it was. If anything, Sashi was the right guy for a "demo", and now we bring in a better guy for the build up. We kept Paul Depo, which is a good thing. Completely ignoring saber-metrics would be a mistake, just as much as completely depending on them to make all decisions.
- I'm also okay with keeping Hue for another year. Yes, he made some egregious coaching decisions ... foremost being neglecting the run and placing our team's success solely on the shoulders of a 2nd-round, 21 year old QB. (More on this in a bit) ... but the alternative would be to fire yet another coach, and hire our 17th best choice for the job, because nobody else would want it. It also gives Dorsey another year to build a team with draft picks and free agency. What most fans don't understand is that Rome isn't built in a day. You can't expect to flip a roster in 6 months and have guys playing cohesive football out of the gate.
- As for Kizer ... not to say, "I told you so", but there is really no other way to put this ... "I freaking told you so". Not that I thought Kizer was a bad draft pick, but I stated multiple times that historically there are only 3 types of QBs that are successful: 1) Consensus #1/#2 draft picks that are good enough to carry a team on Day one; 2) QBs that are plugged into teams with good defenses and running games and are basically asked to "not mess it up"; or 3) QBs that sit on the bench and learn the offense and are comfortable with the playbook and game-speed before getting plugged in.
Instead, we do the exact opposite. We plug a rookie QB in right-away, refuse to focus on the run-game to take any pressure off of him, and refuse to reduce to playbook to simplify things for Kizer. We expected him to throw 40+ times a game and carry an offense that had little to no weapons around him. The results were pretty much expected from my point of view.
This goes back to my chicken-before the egg theory, in that people think that we somehow blow every draft pick at QB. I think we never put them in a good situation, and their confidence is blown before they even get a chance. Had we drafted Jared Goff, we'd be saying the same exact thing.
- As for next year, part of me is okay with passing up Rosen (he doesn't want to play for us anyway) and Darnold (he pretty much looked like Kizer in his Bowl game). I'm hoping we can pick up a Free Agent like Cousins or Keenum, but I get that it's probably a huge long-shot getting a Free Agent to actually voluntarily sign here. Getting Kirk or Case would mean we'd have a young guy that could be a franchise QB for many years down the road anyway and Kizer might actually have time to learn to be the guy himself.
- Another part of me kind of hopes we trade down a bit anyway and just take Mink and Barkley. I think we want to always focus on getting a QB that's going to carve up defenses like a West Coast offense, but we seem to forget we play on the shores of Lake Erie. I'd almost prefer to get a top running-back and top defender. Pair Barkley with a sufficient QB vet like Keenum or even a run-option guy like Lamar Jackson (in the second round), and just shove it down people's throats. We're in the AFC North. Maybe we should play like it for once?
Then put Fitzpatrick at FS and move Peppers to SS where he belongs. Get some Corners in Free agency and bring our Dawgpound Defense back. I honestly don't think our Defense was too far off. We lacked firepower in the defensive backfield. If we can get that straightened out, we might actually be respectable.
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Yeah, the players not executing the plays that were called had nothing to do with it. I keep forgetting it was Hue who dropped that pass in the Steelers game, not Coleman.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm also relieved the season is over.
I don't want Hue gone, but only because I don't want a full reboot. Getting rid of Sashi might not have signaled the start of a reboot, but getting rid of Hue definitely will. Also, I just don't understand enough about what happened this year to call for Hue's (and Williams' heads). The decisions that were made on the field were just so mind boggling at times to totally blame it on the coaches. Hue has shown that he can be a good offensive mind... but his stance on (not) running the dang football were maddening. I think he should come back, but I don't see how he can't be on the hottest of hot seats for the upcoming season.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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I am not going to get into a debate or argument about my thoughts, but I want to post my thoughts on the current state of the team and welcome for others to do the same. I agree we all have our opinions and if someone disagrees we could discuss it rationally ...--I am relieved the season is over. It was frustrating watching this team find ways to lose games each week. I agree I'm happy the season is over ...--I feel that Haslam might finally be getting it. I am so glad he isn't listening to the dumb-ass fans and whiners in the media and instead has chose to stick w/Hue and continuity. I feel this is very important to our success moving forward. I think that people made/are making way to much out of comments, time management, and play calling.
I disagree, I don't see where Haslem is getting it, although I will give him kudos for bringing Dorsey in, and I don't agree they should have kept Hue, continuity is great if its good this isn't good and I'm not going to call anyone names because they disagree with me ... --I think Dorsey is a good football guy and he and Hue will actually work together, which is going to be so awesome to see after watching regime after regime after regime not work together. The ability to work together is going to be another important ingredient in the Browns turning things around. I love the fact that we went out and got a true football man but I believe Hue is going to have trouble working with anyone at this point, he seems to be a me guy ... JMHO--I think that under Dorsey's direction, the team will utilize their draft assets and turn them into players instead of trading away those picks. --I think we know we need to win some games right away and that we utilize all that cap money we have and bring in some quality free agents. I think vets who have experienced winning will be brought in to help change the losing culture that was established by the previous FO. --I hope we draft Josh Rosen at 1-1. I think he is far superior to any qb in the draft. The more I watch and learn, the more I think Rosen is the only plausible choice. Rosen has all the tools but he has had concussions and shoulder and knee surgery ... Correct me if I'm wrong on the surgery's but if it is true that is a red flag, and his attitude is questionable also ...--I think we need to upgrade the WR position. We need some route runners. Guys w/reliable hands. Hopefully Gordon can stay clean. He will be an asset, but he needs help. C. Coleman is so disappointing. Louis stinks. We need a lot of help on that unit. Gordon Coleman and I think Higgins is salvageable but I agree we need to draft at least 1 WR I would love for us to get our hands on Calvin Ridley ...--I wouldn't mind a vet TE to add some stability to that unit. or Maybe Geseiki the TE from Penn State in the 4th rd. --All four secondary guys can go as far as I am concerned. They won't all go, but that is how bad this unit is. We are forced to compensate the D because our safeties can't cover anyone and this forces our LBers to play more coverage than they should. Our corners can get beat over the top and this leads us to playing too deep. It is imperative we upgrade this unit considerably. We defiantly need to upgrade both CB's and Safety's Maybe McCourty and Peppers since I believe he was played out of position ... --I would get Duke locked up as soon as possible. and Gordon ... --I was hoping we would keep Crow once Dorsey came in, but I think Crow has burned some bridges. I'm not positive about that, but it's the feeling I get. Crow can go this draft is loaded with quality RB's ...--I think we need another guy on the DL who can pressure the qb. It's bad news when you have to blitz as much as we do to generate pressure. I think our DE's are fine if healthy, but if we could land another DT that can pressure it would be nice ...
--I'm hoping that Myles puts in a ton of off-season work that will help him improve his hand-fighting and learning some counter moves. Myles will be worth the #1 when healthy ... JMHO--I think Joe T will be back because Hue will be back. I think he was out the door had we dumped Hue. I think JT would have come back regardless of Hue coming back ... Summary: I think this team has a lot of holes and is still inexperienced, but I think we are moving in the right direction. Those of you who have read me for years haven't heard me utter those words too many times. I believe we have a good foundation and I think Sashi had a lot to do with that but I am glad he is gone and Dorsey is here I believe Sashi was let go because of his inability to solve the QB problem, I hope I am wrong about Hue because if we don't win early he may be let go at mid season leaving us with a lame duck HC and another wasted year right now I have hope because of our cap space and FA and our draft with all the picks especially all the quality picks at 1, 4, 33, 35, 62 and 65 so here is to a better 2018 after all it can't be any worse ... JMHO
Last edited by PastorMarc; 01/02/18 06:20 PM.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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j/c:
Some thoughtful posts since the last time I checked this thread. I don't agree w/everything that guys like Pit, Pastor, 888, and Excel said.........but, those were damn fine posts.
A couple of points:
--888 pointed out that I said something like "use all that cap money." I worded that wrong. Sorry. I didn't mean "all" of it. I was thinking about "all" of the cap money we have and thought that we will actually use some of it this year to improve the team. I just worded it wrong. I was typing fast, just like now. LOL
--I personally am so glad that we aren't facing another complete rebuild. I was envisioning us firing Hue and reading all the posts about how the new coach would be so much better and that we have to give him 5 years to fulfill his plan and then all the following excuses at first and then calling for him to be fired a year and half later. Enough! That stuff doesn't work. That's all we have ever done and it hasn't worked yet.
I truly believe that this team is finally headed in the right direction. That doesn't mean I am right, but I think a lot of you know that I am not one to sugar-coat things and I have never been a homer. I truly see some good in what we are doing.
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Rosen has never had a knee surgery. His knee injuries are like Baker's ankle injuries. They're nothing serious and only the people who watched those games remember them.
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Thanks. I forgot to address the "knee surgery" thang. LOL
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You don't want to argue or debate, yet you start off by calling those that don't want to stick with Hue "dumb ass fans and whiners"? Well he wasn't arguing it or debating it - he was stating it as fact... lol
Maybe not in those words but I agree with Vers on this. Sorry, I cannot agree with 1-31 Its ok...I do understand the simple logic in that. I just want us to see this through...we for the first time stripped the team bare to the bone. Added 19 rookies to our 53 man roster year One. Lost our 1st and 2nd QBs by the 2nd game.
Added more rookies this year with a couple of good FA pickups in the OL to help a bit. But went into the season with a 2nd round 2017 rookie, a 3rd round 2016 2nd year kid, a 5th (???) round 2016 2nd year kid. That was just WRONG!
I get the dismay with the record. But under those circumstances only a couple more wins were in our horizon not won. I'm looking forward in the year 3 where a new era makes their marks if we utilize FA properly...if not the draft way primarily is a 5 year build up to see the summary...Thats football.
I'm not looking to blow this up after year two...remember all the consensus after the last blow up...lets have CONTINUITY for once...so here we are in year two and I don't go along with the blow up idea. I get your reasons. Hopefully you understand mine
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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j/c
--I am relieved the season is over. It's painful to see young talent wasted with bad coaching.
--I feel that Haslam still isn't getting it. He's still listening to the dumb-ass fans and whiners in the media and fired Sashi and destroyed continuity yet again. I have Nothing against Dorsey, he may be a plus, time will tell. Thankfully the cap and draft ammunition in this draft is huge and I hope that Dorsey doesn't try to rip it down to the studs yet again. I think that people are spot on about comments, time management, and play calling, throwing players under the bus, stabbing the front office in the back, leaking info to reporters, and coordinating a coup with his daughter, his buddy reporter, and Bob Wylie. He tried the same thing in Oakland and that is why he was fired so quickly and the players here are starting to call him out on it as well.
--I think Dorsey is a good football guy and will finally keep Hue on a short leash. It is becoming apparent with Dorsey forcing him to take on the offensive coordinator that he should have had all along and Dorsey doing the hiring himself rather than having Hue do it. Hue's inability to work with the last front office will be fresh in his mind and unlike Sashi, Dorsey will keep an eye on his back.
--I hope Dorsey doesn't squander picks or cap space, but see nothing that indicates that he will do so.
--I think we know we should have won a few games this year and we have more talent than Hue wants us to believe. I think the players that Hue threw under the bus this year will be a little bitter about that and that may make it harder to bring in some Vets and resign a couple of our own. I think vets who have experienced winning will probably stay away from Hue when they talk to other players on the team. Hopefully Dorsey can convince a few that he won't let Hue throw them under the bus as well.
--I have watched tape on all of the top QB's, but not enough to pick a clear favorite. There are at least 6 that I like, but all of them have at least one question mark. I'll feel better about whoever we draft if we get a solid Vet on the roster as well.
--I think we need to upgrade the WR position. We need at least two more good WR's. Having Gordon back is nice, but he is always one mistake away from retirement. This is Coleman's make or break year. Pryor is making signals he wants to come back. The rest of the WR group isn't showing any signs of life.
--I wouldn't want a Vet TE to steal snaps from our two young TE's. If we grabbed one, I would hope he would fill Telfer's blocking role.
--Anyone with half a brain can see we are two players away in the secondary. We need a FS that is a true center fielder and a Left Corner.Kindred had a great year this year as well as McCourty. BBC is a solid Nickel Corner. Peppers will be good in a utility role in the box.
--I would hope we could lock up Duke but he is upset with Hue for throwing players under the bus.
--Crow is gone because Hue already burnt that bridge.
--I like our d-line but you can never have too many pass rushers.
--I'm hoping that Myles stays healthy. His health is the only thing that could keep him from being a beast.
--I think Joe T will be back because Sashi did him a solid and gave him a raise when he didn't need to. I think he'll be back despite Hue throwing players under the bus.
Summary: If we get QB figured out, we'll win more games despite bad coaching. We have enough money and draft picks this year to more than fill the holes that we have in the roster. That also depends on our new GM not feeling the need to rip it down to the studs again. If we start wasting picks replacing guys that we just picked up, it might take longer.
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good point about TE ... it'd be nice if Devalve and Njoku really improve this offseason
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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