DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A Problem That Needs Addressed

Your perceived truth doesn't make it so.

I've heard that called truthiness before.

I'm leaning on the making mountains out of mole hills.

He had a roster stripped down further than most teams ever do. They moved on from veterans like Haden (as bad as our secondary is) without getting anything for him which would have been more easily excused if they took an offer they couldn't refuse. He started the season with a very poor QB room. There was so little experience on the roster that you could count on somebody making a play/drive killing mistake regardless what play was called. How many games did we have the lead at the end of the game but lost because someone made a mistake that gave the opponent another chance? etc, etc, etc.

The hater crowd would call that making excuses for Hue. I call it recognizing that there were circumstances he was challenged with. The hater crowd says Hue may have sabotaged the team to make Sashi look bad. But when you look at the QB room and the release of veterans you could wonder if Sashi sabotaged the team to make Hue look bad.

I've lost some of my passion for talking about the team. I still read the board everyday and, of course, watch every minute of every game always envisioning scenarios in which the Browns can win the game.

But things have gone so far South I can no longer make sense of it. I used to try to understand what they were trying to do even if I disagreed with them. But that has gotten increasingly difficult.

I don't think that anymore.

I have been suggesting that the reason the Browns have so much cap space is because Haslam is worried about money. The difference between 89 percent and 100 percent of the salary cap is tied up in cap space.

Definitely not the reason for cap space.

Right. But the actual truth does.

At this point it's only true in your mind.

If only that were true...

Yeah that's why almost every report has Mayfield listed third on the list of QB's in the draft. Because your word is gospel and they know nothing. Give us all a break. There is a draft forum on these boards.

Settle down.

I would guess back in the 2012 draft, Wilson was rated further down than 3rd. And he is easily the best QB that came out of that draft.

This is relevant because I'm certain 95% of the people here will be disgusted if the name on the card with the Browns #1 pick is Baker Mayfield. If it's not and we passed on him and he has a great career, the general consensus would justify the pick either by a) his character risks were too high for us to take him #1 or 2) if the Browns had drafted him he would have been a bust...

Yes, find the anomaly and hope that lightening strikes twice. That makes perfect sense.

Yes, overlooking the obvious in order to take a big risk has served us so well thus far.

You're assuming Mayfield isn't the obvious.

Well he isn't.

In your mind....

Good luck with that on draft day. And it's not just my mind. Mayfield is usually ranked at least the #3 QB in this draft by most.

So since it's you who disagrees with almost everybody else, maybe it's your mind?

There are quite a few who rank Mayfield #1 and there are also quite a few who think that's who the Browns will draft. You have to keep in mind, these aren't GMs and Scouts mock drafts we're looking at, they are analysts'.

It is far more plausible that we draft Mayfield #1 than Allen.

And yet there are two candidates that rank higher than both.

Depends on who you talk to within the NFL circles.

Hindsight is a good thing to have, unfortunately we don't have its benefits when selecting in the draft. Otherwise, one would hope we wouldn't have chosen the SO many players we have who completely flamed out. And, Tom Brady wouldn't have been passed on as many times by as many teams as he was.

Manziel was a successful QB, Heisman winner, NCAA records. Many didn't like him, but I don't think people thought he would be the liability that he became. Colt McCoy was also highly successful with a lot of records, and he has been a fine 2nd stringer. I suspect people may have had higher expectations for him as a starter. Same with Mariota, Winston etc. However, not many had Garopollo as the best QB in his draft class. On reflection and in hindsight it looks like he and Carr are exactly that. And, I would add the same with Russell Wilson.

The past two years QB classes were thought of, at the time, as weak. People in here and in the media laughed at and criticised Goff his entire rookie year and said they were glad Hue didn't get his way (he reportedly liked Goff the best). However, Goff has had the last laugh. Many also said Wentz wouldn't be successful as he came from a small conference school. And, this past draft class there were many articles and many people in here who said Watson wouldn't make it in the NFL and didn't want anything to do with him (even though all he ever did was win!). Similar question marks about Mahomes. Sure, Mahomes hasn't proved what he can do, but KC fans feel he will be a superstar.

Point is...hindsight is great to have. The "experts" in here and in the media and even the talent scouts paid to do the job and the GMs and the coaches are all, ultimately gambling.

For the record, I too like Mayfield, but I get that there are some questions. If he were 2-3" taller I think he would be unanimous #1.

The odds are that the best QB in this draft isn't Darnold or Rosen. There are 6 QB's grouped pretty tightly. The sad part is that we won't know which is the best QB for a few years. Rosen and Darnold probably have the best odds individually, but the talent of the group is good enough to beat the individual odds. Scheme fit, commitment, coaching, patience and a few more things are going to improve those odds for at least 1 of these QB's.

That's probably one of the fairest posts on this topic. Incidentally, had Jimmy decided to keep the Sashi/Hue combo, I'd still be pissed about he record, but i wouldn't be in so on favor of Hue leaving. While i get the areas addressed under Sashi may not have been everyone's choice for that time, i do believe year 3 wpuld have been the year it all came full circle.

But when Jimmy cans Sashi, that's a significant deviation from "the Plan". That decision invites a ton of scrutiny as to who did what. My animosity towards Hue stems from not buying the notion others are portraying that he was a hapless victim for the last 2 seasons.


Ultimately if Dorsey is as good as they say, i think we could have done well with him as an addition.

I am curious as to how many heads will explode if Dorsey trades out of either of our 1st Rd picks though lol.

Not enough paper towels in the world to clean the walls after my head blows.

Mine won't, at least until I see what we get and what we do.

We all have plans, but there are several ways to get this done.

I'm fully in agreement with your post, Devil. Particularly the two important points that are hi-lighted. Well done...

Thanks. I apologize for the spelling mishaps... I've been posting from my phone lately.

Thanks, Sevil, for some sensible consideration and commentary on my post. Seems awfully lop-sided in some posts. Your highlights in the response that were included were good.

I believe Hue has to be a less cocky employee and told to do a few things like an OC pick Dorsey likes, not just a lackey or trophy coach window dressing for appearances, a yes man.
And he ought to know his capacity and role and how big it is for QB selection. I would say a FA is a great choice at QB. But as before, I do not trust his judgment in drafting. No more trust-me passes. I did and it was as epic a fail as was possible. I think he should be allowed to buy into and approve a draft; he doesn't get to go al Kessler-Kizer-y again.

If you are talking about Hue having input, no doubt he will have a voice, though I don't think it will make much of a difference.

Hue is going to have input in what positions he thinks need to be upgraded, but I don't think he is going to have much say on individual players.

I guess I still think of coaching/roster on a college, high school, outside league basis, where the head coach see's what he has, then choses his roster from who is available. Cutting Joe Haden because he was getting paid at a rate he was no longer performing at, without consulting the coach, seems to be a bit ridiculous. He was still the best cornerback on the team. Cutting veteran QBs and going with almost total inexperience, without allowing input from the coaching staff, also seems a bit far off base. Welcome to Pro Sports I guess...

I was in favor of what Sashi was trying to do, until it seemed as though the power went to his head

Agreed. He shouldn't be picking an OC just to say he did. Hue really does need a gut check and be able to recognize the appropriate division of labor (whatever that ends up looking like) so to speak. That needs to come from Hue because if Dorsey has to define it for him, that's going to be a relationship doomed to fail.

It would be awesome if we ever got a picture as to what happened behind the scenes. As I recall, when Sashi was originally promoted to that position, Jimmy specifically mentioned Sashi being the kind of person known to not let his ego get in the way of things.

So was it his position that made him feel like 'the man' and ultimately went to his head?

Or was he digging in his heels and trying to mitigate dubious decisions made by Hue such as wanting to give up a 2nd and 3rd for A.J.?

Who knows?

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I was thinking more in terms of the draft.

No doubt the coaching staff should have a bigger say on who we keep and who we cut. I don't disagree with that at all.

You're right, we don't know. IMO, it was not the position (i.e.ego), but rather his absolute adherence to 'The Plan'. When mistakes were made (and we are only talking Sashi here), it was due perhaps to his inflexibility to allow deviance from his policy. This plan was never given the needed time to come to fruition....and that's a shame.

At this point it doesn't matter. The plan was always to make this a big draft, so the plan can still work. We just have a different person making the calls.

I don't think Hue did anybody any favors, but he did have a weak roster, so he remains. He's either going to coach himself on to solid ground or coach himself off the team.


As Al would say..."Just win, baby!" I hope Hue wins a lot of games. That's why most of us are here. We love the Browns and want to see them win.

He is also writing for a local paper in Canton I think. I have seen a lot of articles from him before.