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Dude I watched every single game in question. I'll grant you that leading with your head on the head of a defenseless WR is over the line. I don't remember those hits specifically but if it's in the article I believe it. But for the vast majority of those penalties I think you are buying into exactly what the league wanted you to buy. Like it or not, what was a "great hit" became "headhunting" literally overnight because they knew they were in big trouble with concussion lawsuits. Which is why the league is a garbage product now. Besides the fact that they can't figure out what a catch is, they thought they could legislate all violence out of the sport itself. They are finding out that a lot of fans might actually enjoy sports with a little violence in them. Perish the thought!
There is a HUGE difference between actually headhunting (launching yourself at a guys head) and incidentally slapping a guy in the face mask when you are trying to make a sack. And I'm telling you, that is the kind of BS he was getting flagged for week in and week out. Well that and "landing with full body weight on a QB".
Look I'm a Steeler fan arguing on a Browns site, I understand I'm not going to win this. I'm just trying to give some insight as to why I think the league now is a sham, why the product stinks and how it is we got to this point. That was the year the downhill slide started.
Last edited by Pittfan43; 01/18/18 02:24 PM.
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Foot binding, slavery and forced castration were all legal and socially accepted too at one time. Launching your full body weight at another man's head leading with the helmet as a weapon with the intent to do damage is barbaric at best. To call that type of play a "great hit" is typically classless, and eminently clueless. I'm not buying into anything. The NFL got it right, regardless of the legal reasoning. I don't like those hits, I don't like watching those hits, and eliminating them from the game is the right thing to do. What a catch is or isn't has nothing to do with this. Harrison is a POS. Period.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Foot binding, slavery and forced castration were all legal and socially accepted too at one time. Launching your full body weight at another man's head leading with the helmet as a weapon with the intent to do damage is barbaric at best. To call that type of play a "great hit" is typically classless, and eminently clueless. I'm not buying into anything. The NFL got it right, regardless of the legal reasoning. I don't like those hits, I don't like watching those hits, and eliminating them from the game is the right thing to do. What a catch is or isn't has nothing to do with this. Harrison is a POS. Period. We are talking about different kinds of hits. I edited my last post when I re-read the article and saw the highlighted part about Harrison. I agree that is over the line. The league got it right on those hits, but just like everything else, they wildly overreacted and are losing fans as a result. Those type of hits weren't what I was referring to. But I will tell you this. I think they overreact way too much when there is incidental facemask contact on a tackle. That's different than spearing a guy with your head. I swear that fans who never played do not have any concept that when you hit a guy with your shoulder your facemask will often make contact with the guy at the same time or shortly afterwards. It's the law of physics. Almost all of his Personal Foul calls that year were on sacks and almost every one of them were garbage calls on good hits. Look you are a Browns fan, I am a Steeler fan I get it. We aren't going to agree. But I hate where the league is and this is the season it started. I believe that 100%. And it's all over money.
Last edited by Pittfan43; 01/18/18 02:34 PM.
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I see that you're edited post isn't condoning head hunting, so I apologize if that came out harsh. Harrison strikes a cord in our (Brown's Fans) hearts because of the willful damage he did to Cribbs, Mass & McCoy. Those hits in particular have no business in football. The tackles could have been made without intentionally trying to incapacitate the players. Karma is a bitch, especially in football. I am very surprised he hasn't gotten his yet. But I believe he will, and it will not be pretty. Say what you will about the NFL today (I agree the officials are flag happy and have no business affecting the outcomes of drives or games), but making the game safer so the players can play longer, and have stable, normal lives after football is the right direction to take the game.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I just want to add a couple things...
Sorta to Pittfan's point, but also CalDawg's, I remember vividly Harrison's hit on Cribbs. The announcers were fawning over Harrison for lowering his head, and launching the crown of his helmet into the earhole of Cribbs' helmet... as Cribbs was already being tackled by the defenders taking him on from the front.
It was a cheapshot. Arguing that he didn't get caught until later is a poor argument. Spearing has been in the rulebook long before this discussion was ever brought up.
It was either later that season or the next season where I was watching a Pitt game, and the announcers were again fawning over a Steelers player initiating a cheapshot. They called the center or guard diving into the pile after whistle "cleaning up the pile".
Pittsburgh has gotten the benefit of the doubt because they have been the darlings of the NFL for a while now. While not on the level of the Patriots, it's pretty similar.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Like you said, "spearing" with the top/crown of the helmet has been illegal for a long, long time.
And if you watch the hits we're talking about, that's exactly what harrison did. What made it worse was he went to the head of the other guys.
Shazier - speared - led with the top of his helmet. Tackle properly, he wouldn't have gotten hurt. And I am in NO way saying he deserves/d what happened.
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Like you said, "spearing" with the top/crown of the helmet has been illegal for a long, long time.
And if you watch the hits we're talking about, that's exactly what harrison did. What made it worse was he went to the head of the other guys.
Shazier - speared - led with the top of his helmet. Tackle properly, he wouldn't have gotten hurt. And I am in NO way saying he deserves/d what happened. In 1966 they taught us to put your facemask in his chest. Still seems logical... Good tackling is a fading skill.
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Well, you're a little older than me.  But, in 1981, we were taught the same thing: You have to see what you're going to hit. Hit with your shoulder, and wrap up. It's amazing how actually wrapping up, after hitting with your shoulder, and seeing what you are doing, actually results in a player being tackled. And the added benefit is, you don't get hurt, the opposing player doesn't get hurt
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We did the same thing in the '70s. We called it "the perfect tackle."
I think Jack Tatum kinda changed things when he was launching himself into receivers over the middle. Other guys started copying it and we are at a point where that is how many guys tackle---all the time. They go for the highlight hit. The knockout hit. The "Wow" hit.
My old HS coach would have freaked out at how many missed tackles there are in today's game.
I remember when I was a sophomore FS and I had to tackle this big ol' FB who was huge and had a full head of steam. His thighs were as big as my waist....LOL. I did the "perfect tackle" on him and he ran my ass over. But, because I wrapped my arms, I was able to slide down those tree trunks that he called his legs and was able to bring him down. It was a valuable lesson. And when I started coaching, I always told guys that there aren't any runners going anywhere w/out their feet.
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Hard to run out of, or bounce off of a tackle when you have them "wrapped up". DBs are particularly heinous at wrapping up these days.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I also think he lacks a lot of class. There was the stepping out onto the field during the kick return incident. That is combined with the fact his team has been head hunting for quite a while with the likes of Harrison and Shazier.
Granted I'm a Steeler fan and biased in this regard.....but you have to be kidding about that last part right? Almost every one of those hits Harrison got flagged for in that one single season were considered not only legal, but highlight reel hits literally the week before they start calling them. Overnight the league changed everything. Harrison was arguably the leagues most intimidating player and represented everything they were panicking about with the concussion scare. So Goodell honed in on him simply to make an example for the rest of the players to scare the crap out of them with the threat of fines. They were worried about getting the pants sued off them by former players and needed to take drastic action immediately, so they changed the entire nature of the game mid season. They were trying to put every defender in the league on notice and he was the guy to make the example of. Period. I never screamed at my TV more than I did watching those weekly flags on basically hard tackles of the QB. It was insanity there for awhile. The low point and the one I still haven't recovered from during that stupid season was the one sack that year he got flagged on....I wanna say it was on Jamarcus Russell. Now this was after about 5 consecutive weeks of BS personal foul calls for basically hitting the QB too hard, so I was already at my limit and ready to quit watching football all together. This particular one was on pretty much a textbook tackle of the QB and not even a particularly hard sack at that. Here comes the flag. The referee proceeds to say, "Unecessary roughness, #92, Landing with full body weight on the Quarterback". I think my wife may have had to restrain me from throwing a glass through my TV screen. It became an absurd joke around the league on a weekly basis. The rest of that year and part of the next I hardly watched another game. And I tell you, I think the league is now paying for all the seeds they sowed that season coming to fruition now as far as trying to eradicate hard hitting. They have chased a lot of long standing fans away from the game with this crap. And it's all phony outrage by the league and commentators too, that's the part that makes me sick. They secretly still love hard hitting but now they have to pretend they hate it. I thought Jon Gruden was going to vomit on national TV when Ju Ju Smith Schuester blasted Burfict on that block. He may as well had a funeral for him on the air. He sounded like he had just witnessed a drive by shooting. It's all a gigantic sham. And Shazier has never had a reputation as a dirty player. Yeah he dropped his head and paralyzed himself but it isn't like he was trying to hurt the guy, it was just lousy tackling form. And don't even give me the helmet to helmet hit on the Bengals RB a couple years ago that caused the fumble in the playoffs. That was two guys lowering there heads and meeting in the hole. It was beautiful. As for Tomlin stepping out onto the field during the Ravens game, I can't make any excuse for that. That was just silly. Honestly I think he temporarily lost his mind when he saw their season about to go down the toilet and made a stupid decision. I've often wondered if it crossed his mind for a split second to stick out his leg and trip the guy and then sanity reasserted itself at the last moment lol. It was dumb either way. Wow......that was a rant. Sorry about that, I didn't intend for it to be. Sore subject for this fan lol. You should have stopped after you admitted your bias. Harrison is a POS that not only targets players on the field he targets his wife - want to stick up for him head hunting her face? Shazier, its sad what happened, but he was trying to crush the guy in the spine with his helmet and hurt himself. He also has been flagged constantly for hits and had rules changed because of them. Mike Mitchell is another dirty hitter.
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I swear I hear this once every few years....the steelers are done.....I remember hearing "Tomlin will ruin the Steelers it's starting already". Firing Dick Lebaue is the start of the end etc. etc.
The fact of the matter is that they are a world class organization that continues to churn out HOF players. I don't see that ending anytime soon.
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I give you props for acknowledging your bias. Similarly, I'm biased against the guy because he's concussed several Browns players with illegal hits over the years. I don't have the same amount of venom for other similar, serial offenders (Merriweather, and there were at least 2 other safeties recently that couldn't stop going helmet to helmet and getting flagged/fined).
However, getting back to the topic... Tomlin has had Harrison and now Shazier and Mitchell. They lower the crown of the helmet and spear. As far as I know, no other team has so many cheapshot artists on their team. It's encouraged and/or taught.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Dude I watched every single game in question. I'll grant you that leading with your head on the head of a defenseless WR is over the line. I don't remember those hits specifically but if it's in the article I believe it. But for the vast majority of those penalties I think you are buying into exactly what the league wanted you to buy. Like it or not, what was a "great hit" became "headhunting" literally overnight because they knew they were in big trouble with concussion lawsuits. Which is why the league is a garbage product now. Besides the fact that they can't figure out what a catch is, they thought they could legislate all violence out of the sport itself. They are finding out that a lot of fans might actually enjoy sports with a little violence in them. Perish the thought!
There is a HUGE difference between actually headhunting (launching yourself at a guys head) and incidentally slapping a guy in the face mask when you are trying to make a sack. And I'm telling you, that is the kind of BS he was getting flagged for week in and week out. Well that and "landing with full body weight on a QB".
Look I'm a Steeler fan arguing on a Browns site, I understand I'm not going to win this. I'm just trying to give some insight as to why I think the league now is a sham, why the product stinks and how it is we got to this point. That was the year the downhill slide started. Dude, you could be a Steelers fan arguing on ANY other team's website, and I bet you get the same answer. Your bias is clear. If you don't think he was/is a headhunter, then I don't know what to tell you. He's a cheap player. It goes beyond head hunting.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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incidentally slapping a guy in the face mask when you are trying to make a sack. And I'm telling you, that is the kind of BS he was getting flagged for week in and week out. What about incidentally slapping your wife in the face, is that BS too?
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