DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Offensive Coordinator Cont.

And to add to what Diam said, Kizer was responsible for 31 of 41 turnovers. Turnovers that wouldn't have happened if we were running the ball. If you really want to set up a young QB to fail, treat him the way we did this year.

Then all you are doing is paying lip service to actually adding an OC to the staff.

You don't necessarily want an OC; you just don't want Hue to call plays.

But adding an OC will absolutely improve every facet of the offense whether they call plays or not. Adding an OC will make Hue a "better" play caller.

I was frustrated, many many many times, seeing Crowell run into his own linemen instead of hitting the hole. Crowell may be a good back, but I think he lacks the vision needed, the ability to see the field, and make yards. Yes, Crowell would make some gains, but also often seemed to get tripped up by "a blade of grass." We do not know, but I suspect this was an issue even in practice and Hue, seeing this, would get frustrated and go to the pass. That was just my sense from watching games.

I felt the frustration too. Nothing against Crowell, he is a good back and will be good in the league, not great, but good. Unfortunately, for our situation, Crowell was not the back needed to gain the tough Yards. He does not have the vision or patience of a Leveon Bell, or the Power of a Marshawn Lynch, which is what the Browns would have needed to "assist" Kizer.

JMHO

Sounds an awful lot like you are saying that Hue was justified when abandoned the run because Crow is a good but not great back?

Crow did have several runs where you went omg what is he doing. I think 37 is right about his vision problems. It's why I won't be sad to replace him.

I'm not saying justified, but I felt the frustration and can see some possible reasons. I know there is only one Bell, or Lynch, but I also know that you can only work with what you have. I do want the Browns to get a top Running back this year. Hopefully Barkley.

So you can toss out an arbitrary number of probable wins, minimum, had Hue run the ball more but I can't toss out an arbitrary number of possible additional wins had the defense not folded so often.

I see. Your logic is sound while mine, which is exactly the same thing, is ignorant.

Your logic is sound, in your mind, because it lays those losses directly at the feet of Hue Jackson for his failings.

My logic is not sound, to you, because the main responsibility for those losses fall to someone else, so it's harder to blame Hue for them explicitly.

You can't add one side to the possible win total without adding the other. To do so is ignorant.

Maybe the real problem is that you cannot make statements such as your '4 wins minimum' as anything other than a hypothetical. Which should then allow the other side as a hypothetical as well. And if you do you then have to add them both together as possible win total. Like I said, "It doesn't work that way", though you insist it does work your way which is no more logical or factual than pulling a number out of your ass with no basis in reality.

Hue ran the ball a lot in Cinci, so I don't think he is like Flip and doesn't want to run.

I think there were three major reasons we didn't run it a ton:

1. Teams stacked the box to stop the run. We have seen it. We heard Bitonio say it. And the announcers would point it out.

2. We ran early in games and there were times when we would run it on first and second down. We would be left w/a 3rd and long and the results on that down and distance w/Kizer were ugly.

3. We were often behind in games by multiple scores. Of course, you are going to pass more in those situations.

I am not buying into those who say Hue is dumb.

It's not that I don't want him calling plays. I just don't see where a guy should be called coordinator, and paid as such if he isn't going to fill, but it isn't my money, so Haslam can pay what he wants.

To me it would be easier for the person who actually made the game plan and set the play chart to call the plays. I do understand that takes time. If Hue is going to be there most of the time doing that, what's changed?

Flip ran more than Hue.

Oh course I am pulling a number. I don't have a crystal ball.

I think you understand my point. We ran the least of any team in the league with 2 backs who averaged over 4 yds per carry and a rook QB who couldn't see the field very well.

I just don't think that is a good run/pass mix.

So if it makes you feel better, had we run the ball more, we would have been helping Kizer. Had we run more in the red zone, we probably would have had less turnovers down there and more points on the board, even if only a field goal.

Had we done that, I am pretty sure we would have increased our chances to win some games.

Is that better?

Putting the team in to a better position to win games is the job of coaching, no?

Overall.... I know we had designed runs for Kizer, but we only ran maybe a dozen more times with our running backs this year than last year. And that's with Hue saying he didn't run the ball enough after his first year....

Yet as a team we averaged 4.5 yards per carry. More than Jacksonville, who lead the league in rushing yards.

I am sure they faced stacked boxes a good deal of the time. We will probably see it in todays game.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/seasontype/2

Clearly Crow has, let's say consistency issues, and I don't think there's anyone who wasn't frustrated by him. But if he's that unreliable, why isn't he being replaced? We sorta saw that with a game or 2 with the Duke running more, but if we can bench Kizer.. for Kessler.. for Hogan.. why not Crow? Dayes looked like a pretty decent find in preseason. I think he could have at least had a shot at being the guy for a game or two.

It's just weird.

I think Crow will be replaced this year. He is a free agent and I don't expect to see him get offered a contract. If he does get an offer from the Browns, I would expect a low offer that he won't take. I expect to see the Browns take a Running Back with one of their top 5 picks.

Crow will be replaced because he doesn't want to come back. We ran him out of the shotgun most of the time, which he isn't suited at, and then Hue put the blame on him when Hue gave up on the run despite a 4.5 yd average. Why come back to a team that does that to you when plenty of other teams will value having you?

I want a Lindy Infante disciple .. lol

Just to be clear Vers, it sounds like you agree with the use of the run game?

And if so I completely disagree and think the run game was woefully underused.

No worries, we just disagree.

I am not going to go through it again and explain what an offense coordinator actually does. You can look through this thread and find it if you want.

But again an OC is much more then just a playcaller.
If Hue hires an OC and continues to call plays doesn't make it a 'sham' hire. It would only be a sham hire IF you believe that an OC=playcaller.

I agree....no worries my friend. It's just football talk between friends at the bar for most of us. No drama involved. Just friendly banter.


I read your post the first time, it was a good post and I agree.

CLEVELAND (92.3 The Fan) – After nearly 3 weeks of searching, Hue Jackson is getting closer to finding an offensive coordinator.

Jackson and the Browns have spoken with former Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley about the job here in Cleveland a league source confirmed to 92.3 The Fan.

ESPN’s Chris Mortensen was first to report the news. Mortenson also reported that the Browns are “in serious talks” with Haley.

Haley’s contract was not renewed by the Steelers following their 45-42 divisional round loss to Jacksonville last Sunday.

Jackson has already interviewed Texans quarterbacks coach Sean Ryan and former Giants head coach Ben McAdoo for the job. Former Titans coach Mike Mularkey was also rumored to be tied to the opening but it is unclear if he actually interviewed.

Haley replaced Bruce Arians in 2012 as offensive coordinator in Pittsburgh and the Steelers have averaged the third most yards per play since Haley took over and in the last four seasons Pittsburgh ranked behind only the Patriots in scoring.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2018/01/21...NEu12aY.twitter

LOL - Haley and Williams will be like Buddy and Gilbride part 2.

Not sure I like Haley, just based on what I've read on him

j/c:


https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/955132071307108353

As someone said previously, Haley and Williams together. Should make for an interesting staff...

Sure is looking that way....

Ex-Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley in talks with Browns
12:04 PM ET
Chris Mortensen
NFL reporter

Todd Haley has a chance to remain in the AFC North, as the Cleveland Browns have engaged him in serious talks to become their new offensive coordinator under Hue Jackson, according to league sources.

Link

Very surprised at this. It's hard to think this would be a Hue hire, more like a Dorsey hire. Haley is a proven coordinator that's for sure. If hired he would be in control of the offense. Haley would take pressure off of Hue so he could spend more time with the entire team. I like it but I am surprised.

Hmmmm...you may be right. Would Hue (or Haley) give up playcalling? Yes, surprising...

Haley would not come to the Browns unless he had total control over the offense.

If Haley comes here, I doubt if AJ McCaron would be coming here. It would be a different system and different terminology, so AJ's advantages would not be as great.

Exactly why this is surprising...

I would give Haley total control of the offensive, I don't want Hue touching it, he doesn't know what he's doing. In fact I'd love it if this was just a prep step to eventually forcing Hue out if he continues to do bad. That may be harsh but whatever.

I gave three reasons why we didn't run the ball as much as some would like. I also pointed out that that Hue ran in in Cinci. In fact, the Bengals were 7th in the entire NFL in rushing attempts.

I think my reasons are a bit more logical than those whose reasoning is "Hue is dumb."

I doubt Rosen would be cool w/Haley's coaching style. Thus, this is a disappointing hire if it comes to fruition because that means we probably won't be drafting Rosen.

I also think Haley's play calling is far worse than Hue's. I don't get this move.

Yeah, but your also arguing a point that I'm not making.

I'm just trying to figure out if you agree with Hues use of the run game last year. And it seems like you do?

When Dorsey got hired, I jokingly said that he would hire a dumb football guy like Haley. Welp!

I think Haley is an outstanding Xs and Os offensive coordinator and playcaller.

It seems like he is a difficult personality to work with. But from a scheme/production standpoint he's been very good.

I wonder about the personality issues that could arrive in Cleveland though, especially in the current front office/team dynamic.

I think he's a damn good OC. Worry about the fit.

as ,long as Williams is on the sideline and Haley is in the box then it might work

Ah! We have found our new(est) scapegoat. It will all be your fault...

If the Browns hire Todd Haley I see them then focusing in on Sam Darnold. I think Darnold will fit Haley's offense better than Rosen.