DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Democrats Looking To Shut Down The Government

I am confused as to why this shutdown is "bad" and the 2013 shutdown was "good" from a Republican standpoint, because the 2013 shutdown happened exactly as this one is looking to happen: The minority party preventing resolution of the CR, thus forcing shutdown. I am aware of how the senate procedure works (and also know that if this passed congress as you claim, we wouldn't be having this conversation.)

I never said 13 shutdown was good. I am living in 2018 however. I don't care what happened in 13.

Let the government shut down. I will be fine. I just worry about those that will not. The dems talk about helping the little guy and the poor, yet shutting down the government only hurts them. FACT.

13 doesn't matter. They are shutting it down now because they value illegals over Americans. disgraceful.

I will also say, that regardless of good or bad, the shutdown was based on what the republican party thought BEST for American citizens. I will hear any argument against the reason, but that is a fact. they may have been wrong, but it was for AMERICANS. This shut down is simply putting illegals over americans.

It passed the house.

As far as 2013 was concerned, just look at the mess ObamaCare has become. Republicans were right to try to stop it and today we have the proof.

The Schumer shutdown contains everything the Democrats agreed too previously but now they want to force DACA into the equation but it is too late. DACA must wait. But they would shut us down because they could care less about America, they want to help illegals above everything.

Your people not mine.

I just wanted to outline my confusion on why it appears we are moving the goalposts. You "not caring" about 2013 is not a response for or against that. If anything that response indicates to me that you understand the parallels, you just wish to ignore them. If you don't wish to hold your elected officials to high standards then that is your choice. Maybe that is evident by your views here?



Is this best for Americans? If your viewpoint is that US soldiers are worth deporting ( link ) then that is your viewpoint. We can parse over technicalities but the realities are that we told hundreds of thousands of people that "hey, while we figure out how to get you citizenship, you can work, you can pay taxes, you can contribute." And instead of our congress figuring out how to get these people citizenship, the GOP wants to punt?

The GOP could have capitalized on a great opportunity to replace DACA with a permanent solution but instead will just return us to what we had before: many kids brought to this country without choice with nowhere to go, who without the United States have no country to call home. The 3 republican presidents preceding Trump shielded family members of illegals just like DACA did. Reversing course does nothing but break up families, and this used to be an easy "bi-partisan" win. Why we are suddenly content with this is frankly, shameful.

It's only too late because of 45. So he own's all of this. So sad, too bad. Wear your badges.

You are right, everything was agreed to. It was until the President tweeted that he had altered the deal (cue Star Wars quote whenever you like):
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/952528011869478912

You and I both know that negotiation is all about leverage. The Democrats have limited leverage because hey, they lost and are the minority party. But the only thing worse than having little leverage is not using it. It's a gamble, and it could backfire on them. But it didn't seem to backfire on the GOP in 2013 (at least not at the polls) so... maybe this is a safe gamble to make.



If you mean Americans then yes, the Democrats in Congress are Americans. If you mean Democrats then you are mistaken as I am an independent. I lean conservative usually on fiscal issues but DACA is not a fiscal issue... unless you mean the fiscal problem of returning these people to being unable to work and pay taxes, in which case it is a fiscal issue because we just burdened ourselves with hundreds of thousands of illegals who can't pay taxes, not to mention the cost of deporting them back to a country they may not even have memories of.

Personally, my VIEWPOINT on 13 again is that right or wrong whatever you believe the right did what they were doing because they believed they were doing what was best for AMERICAN citizens.

The shut down now, is being done for illegal immigrants. you cannot change that fact.

You are trying to compare two completely separate scenarios.

Example - you manage a business. On Saturday, you are the only one working. you get a notice that a close family member was in an accident and you have to close the doors and leave. so you do.

Then you come back, another store owner needs help w/ staffing, and you like him better than your boss so you close down early and leave.

Are you saying that those two instances are a "parallel?"

I EXPECT and DEMAND elected officials to put Americans above illegal immigrants. Always.

So you asked me a question and then answered the question for me without allowing me to answer. FIRST OFF this bill does not deport anyone! DACA is still on the table. They have until MARCH to work on it. DEMS are using DACA to oppose trump, first and foremost. It has nothing to do with the DACA kids, and you are smart enough to know that. So spare me your bleeding heart, because you dang well know this NOT ABOUT those people. If you read any of my post on this board, you would see that I AM FOR a solution to get the DACA people citizenship (THOSE THAT ARE OBEYING THE LAW OF COURSE). So do not try to insinuate anything otherwise. I think we do need to do something for them. Funny, the DEMS refuse too negotiate on it.

You are painstakingly misguided on this. OBAMA was the one that NEVER did anything for them outside of the EO. The DEMS never put a bill through congress. TRUMP reversed the order because it was unconstitutional, OBAMA even said that! The GOP has not punted on the DACAs, OBAMA and dems did since the day he signed that EO.

What solution? Did you see the "bill" No Everify, 10% border funding, no fix to chain migration, etc. it was a joke. The left is trying to play fastball when everyone knows they have slow pitch softball behind their back.

Let me ask you a question, if they have no country and no nothing of their country of origin, WHY DO THEY NEED CHAIN MIGRATION? They do not know the country, they do not know the family there? Anyone care to answer that question????

Again, show me where they stated they would not give the DACAs citizenship? They have plainly stated time and time again we need to do something for them, yet the dems do not want to negotiate. Give them Everify and chain migration and the DACAs would have citizenship. But the DEMS will not, geeeeee I wonder why? THEY DONT CARE ABOUT THEM! They want to be able to bring their family members so they can get their votes! That is EXACTLY why they will not negotiate on DACA. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Man gage, I really thought you could see past some these things bud. But I guess I was wrong. We have disagreed before, but you at least were level headed and seen through the BS.

Shameful is holding up the US government for illegals.

Shameful is having 8 years to figure out a fix, and doing nothing for those DACAs

Shameful is using them are bargaining piece to lessen our security of the nation!

U sure are spending a lot of time on someone that can’t add 0 + 0 much less 1 + 1 ...

God Bless U bro ...

Common sense DACA deal (just like common sense gun control)....

1. DACA is for childhood arrivals....that means child, not parent...if you are a DACA kid then your parents are admittedly here illegal and must be given up for deportation. In your application.

2. To prove that this is not a democrat vote grab...no DACA kid can ever vote in a federal or state election. Second generation DACA kids get tge right to vote.

3. DACA kids cannot access social services or assitance until there are 10 years of confirmed tax payments made under their verified tax ID.

4. Receive 1 felony of any kind or 3 misdemeanors of any kind in you life time after getting DACA kid protection mean immediate deportation.


Liberals shoukd have no reason to not get on board with these common sense DACA kid guidelines.

Been thinking about this tonight and I've changed my mind. I want the Dems to pass this 30 day extension to lock down the CHIP funding. It also gives them 30 days to force Trump's hand on DACA. A shut down doesn't really hurt him as much as embarrass him and I think they have him sweating with only 4 hours remaining until the deadline. Daca is not getting done tonight, so take the win on CHIP and the other minor Dem things in this extension.

I guess this is why some in the media are referring to it as the Schumer Shutdown.

Those two instances aren't parallel because I managed a business on Saturday, and then when I come back I have a boss

If your contention is that the Republicans put Americans first in 2013 by trying to repeal the ACA, I would have to heartily disagree. While the law is not perfect it enabled many Americans the ability to choose their own destiny without fear of being without healthcare. I have a personal story about this, and I think it ties in nicely with what we expect the american dream to be:

After 8 years of working at the same place, I got tired of being overpromised and underdelivered on those promises. I left in 2014 to move back north and take my career into my own hands. My wife was pregnant, but I had COBRA, and it would have expired after my son was born. Except the company I _used_ to work for went bankrupt only a few months later, taking COBRA with it. We would not have been able to get healthcare without the Obamacare mandate against pre-existing conditions. You see, a woman being pregnant is a pre-existing condition. So without the ACA, I'd have had to pay for my sons birth out of pocket at a cost of $30,000. Instead, I was able to get Blue Cross and paid a tenth of that.

If anything, the 2013 Shutdown over the ACA would have affected me significantly more negatively had the GOP gotten their way, than this shutdown is now. So your assertion that the GOP was right in 2013 because it helped Americans just isn't true from my personal life experience.



Nice strawman. Hopefully it didn't take a long time to make!



The Democrats _are_ negotiating on it right now. I know you aren't a dumb guy, so you know that the Hastert Rule is a great tool the Republicans use to avoid bi-partisan bills from going to a vote. The Democrats only other choice in the matter is to force the issue with a bill the Republicans would otherwise like to pass.



Can you get me an Obama quote where he said DACA was unconstitutional? I had trouble finding one. Either way, the GOPs "rules" for bringing bills up makes it nearly impossible for a Democrat led bill to pass the House. So when you're given lemons... you know the rest. To be clear I'm not a fan of these "band-aid" fixes to immigration either, and would like comprehensive reform. Both parties are guilty of using this as a football so I'm not going to try to give anyone a pass for inaction on this.



No I didn't see the bill. I was meaning a Republican led bill to fix DACA permanently through congress. If you refer to a Democrat bill I'm not sure which one you speak of at the moment.



It's funny how the history of this has changed over the decades. In the 1960s it was Republicans who wanted chain migration (social) and the liberals wanted a merit based system. Historical anecdotes aside, chain migration has been a part of our country since it's founding. Donald Trumps family used it. My ancestors used it. It would be useful for these children because it's going to be harder to make them productive members of society if you deport their parents.



So you are OK with a teenager being on a path to citizenship as long as their mom and dad get deported? Why even bother? I'm not terribly familiar with E-Verify so I won't comment one way or another.



Sorry to disappoint you... I agree we should have had a fix for these problems during Obama's term, during GWB's term, Clinton's, etc. I just think chain migration is not just barking up the wrong tree, it's a deal breaker. Breaking up families is actually worse than giving the children a path to citizenship. Kids need their moms and dads. I shouldn't have assumed the party of family values would agree.

The next time you want to troll me, don't. I write 3D Graphics software for a living so maybe I shouldn't spend alot of time on someone who probably doesn't know how to calculate the determinant of a matrix.

God Bless you bro

j\c How bout those anti American dems ....they are willing to shut down the govt for illegals and illegal criminals leaving all true AMERICANS holding the bag watta a bunch of scumbags

Obama did say this:


Responding in October 2010 to demands that he implement immigration reforms unilaterally, Obama declared, "I am not king. I can't do these things just by myself." In March 2011, he said that with "respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that's just not the case." In May 2011, he acknowledged that he couldn't "just bypass Congress and change the (immigration) law myself. ... That's not how a democracy works."

https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/daca-unconstitutional-obama-admitted

It is absolutely shameful that the Democrats would actually shutdown the government and financially hurt Americans in the military, American children, and American seniors for illegal immigrants. DACA is an added piece of legislation that does not belong in the spending bill.

Are they playing politics or keeping the narrative about a government shutdown and not on a booming economy?

Dunning-Kruger poster child.
'thought flatulence' on public display. Without any sense of shame.

The irony is almost too much to bear...
-because the laffz just never stop. Dude is why I don't need to watch sitcoms.
What scripted ish could ever top this?

O
M
F
G.



'Exhibit A,' from the Clemdawg recent archives:






Dude... regarding him: whatever.
Folks like him are everywhere. He just happens to be here.
You'll find him everywhere you go.
Because: America.
Long may she wave.

Everywhere does include here.

Look: EverywHERE.

So the GOP majority controlled congress and white house FAILED to work with the minority across the aisle and the leadership/minions have the audacity to try and lay the blame on the Dems. If it weren't so pathetic it would be laughable.

I think the Dems should have voted to extend for 30 days, but I absolutely get why they did this. The GOP is paying the price for shutting them out of the issues that only take a majority of 51 votes in the senate. They did this with a 'you can suck it' attitude toward the Dems. Well today the Dems said 'how does sucking that taste?'

Now it's time to come together and resolve these issues with bipartisan legislation. Period.

Too bad this shut down doesn't include POTUS.

The world didn't end when it shutdown in 13, I doubt it's going to end now.

We are always, in all ways...
nowhere:

Now.
Here.

Since it’s shut down maybe they can take advantage and oil the moving parts so it runs smoother when it starts up again.

I'd be down with that....

"Oil me..."

Illegal immigrants-1
The needs of America and her children-0

The shut down is a farce. They won't get paid now, but as soon as the shut down ends, they get all the back pay. SS checks still go out.

Funny thing is congress will still get their checks while the shut down is in progress.

Shut Down Delays Death Benefits of Soldiers

I don't care who's shutting down what, the only people that shouldn't be getting paid during a shut down is congress.

Wrong.

Democrats-1
The needs of America and her children-0

Any issue to "shut down the federal government" would have suited the democrats.

i love people freaking out over a shutdown like it actually matters.

How do you feel that Trump has himself said that he is to blame for this shut down?

Best post in the entire thread.

Thank you Pastor. Great post!

I wouldn't blame him if he did. The democrats tried to force amnesty on him with the CR.

I miss that little red bouncing ball you posted maybe 15-20 years ago.

NO! Everything the Govt does is terrible, the only good thing is gridlock, if they don't do anything we are all better off.

Don't give the Democrats Anything!

Oh my, look at this 40... how fitting:

Schumer Name Meaning

German: unexplained. North German (Schümer): nickname from Middle Low German Schumer

‘good-for-nothing’, ‘vagabond’.



Source: Dictionary of American Family Names ©2013, Oxford University Press

It does if your one of the people who does not get your paycheck.