DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Lamar Jackson

Yeah, so, that game kind of confirms my first post.

Running qb, with some accuracy issues.

And let me say this: Heisman trophy winners don't impress me much when we're talking NFL.

So, 2 games down as far as me watching them. I still don't see an nfl qb.

Out of curiosity, who do you think has a higher QBR this year?

Using collegiate stats isn't the best way to evaluate how well they will perform in the NFL.

YouTube has full game "short cuts" or "cut-ups" that show every play. Have you watched any of those...or just highlights?

Cool, i'm charting that same game (LJ vs FSU) and will post it in the QB film breakdown thread. I would love to hear/read your thoughts on the plays that stood out to you that are examples of your observations. But, if you're casually watching and forming a general impression that's cool too. Film breakdown isn't everyone idea of fun and there undoubtedly better ways to spend our precious leisure time.

But, if you are interested I look forward to exchanging observations on the plays from that game.

I'm going to put his running ability aside and focus on his passing in this conversation.

When you say some,SOME accuracy issues i'm not sure what you mean/how you define that? My take on the game is that he didn't miss more throws then is acceptable in comparison to other QB prospects.

I didn't see the happy feet/bailing from the pocket without pressure. In fact there were a number of plays where he's hanging in the pocket waiting for the play to develop.

But, I prefer to discuss observations from the games with examples of plays from the game...and I will post my game charting soon. Look forward to discussing with you if you're interested.

It depends on how you define running QB because Jackson's run threat is a part of the offense. A coach would be brain dead not to use that aspect of his game. I didn't think LJ missed more throws then is acceptable vs FSU and there were definitely some throws that showed his accuracy and arm talent.

It was more an overall general thing.

There's a reason I said "Now, when I say a 'running qb', I understand that it may simply have been the o he was running. On read options, he kept the ball just about every time. And truthfully, to me those looked like good reads for the most part."

No worries and I agree 100%. But where did you or me express that idea?

As far as QB 'stats' go QBR is one that I like better then most when it comes to giving a 'snapshot' of a QBs efficiency and productivity. Not as a projection stat.

Anyhow....

I asked you this question:

Because of your post below:



You named QBR as the metric to use to judge who is better 5 years from now. Being that you chose QBR as the metric/stat of choice I thought it would be interesting to see where they stack up right now using QBR.

http://www.espn.com/ncf/qbr

Lamar is #3 QBR @ 85
Rosen is #45 QBR @ 66

link explaining QBR for those that are unfamiliar/interested:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/9612585/total-quarterback-rating-college-football

https://mobile.twitter.com/PatrickClaybon/status/957266792509882368/video/1

I don't know how to embed this video format...but it's a good watch

His effortless throws are impressive. I dont see the happy feet others have spoken of. He stands in the pocket and surveys the field just as well as any of the other top prospects. I would take him at #4

I don't see much difference between Jackson and Watson. I think Lamar will do well in the league.

See, I think Watson was a better passer coming out of college. I haven't studied Jackson that much, but the couple games I've seen, Watson looks like the more refined passer to me

One thing that rattles around my head is the comparisons to Mike Vick from an athletic perspective. Even Mike Vick has said multiple times that Jackson is the closest thing to himself - even saying that Jackson is five times better than he was at Virginia Tech.

Yet Jackson is a much better, more accurate, more natural passer than Vick was. He's more poised and comfortable in the pocket. Vick had a cannon but he was wild and inconsistent with how he used it. Vick never really had a great season as a passer. He had a strong year in 2010 with the Eagles, but even that certainly wasn't great.

It feels weird that a guy with legitimate Vick-esque athletic ability, but also superior talent as a passer, is so quickly dismissed.

I've noticed a lot of people have been mocking Jackson to the Steelers in the second round. Similar to the reports they were targeting Kizer in the 2nd round of the 2017 draft, it is a logical fit. An athletic, strong armed quarterback who, above all, requires development. Development that he can achieve behind Roethlisberger. The Steelers did take Joshua Dobbs in the 4th round last year, and I don't see him as being as strong a prospect as Jackson is.

So, why don't we love him more?

Honestly, I don't know. It's odd. There is certainly enough talent there that should reasonable draw the attention of any team. He's an elite athlete with great size and basic skill set. He's got a strong arm, he's accurate, he doesn't make many mistakes and he's breathtakingly productive. Far from perfect. As a passer, there isn't anything in his game that is top-of-the-class, in my opinion. But I wouldn't say there is anything in his game that suggests he shouldn't get an opportunity to play quarterback in the NFL.

I think Jackson has the best chance of being a combine riser. If his pre-draft work has him show up at the combine looking polished as a thrower, showing off his athleticism and, most importantly, nailing the intellectual side of football in meetings, I wouldn't be shocked to see someone fall in love.

If that happens, I can't see anything that truly prevents him from having the potential to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. He's not my guy, but I'm a little weary of why exactly he's so quickly dismissed.

I don't love him more because I don't think he is an accurate passer.

I think a lot of people see him and the comparisons to Vick and think he's a moron. I was accused of being a racist when I said Lamar Jackson plays like a skilled Teddy Bridgewater. The dude is a lot smarter than people will give him credit for. It's no surprise that Bucky has him as his 3rd QB overall.

Not everyone who isn't ga-ga w/Lamar is a freaking racist.

I don't like him because I think he is inaccurate and I don't like inaccurate qbs. That is why I don't like Allen, as well. He's white.

I loved Bridgewater. He's black. I love Russel Wilson. He's black, but maybe not black enough for Richard Shermin...LOL

For some of us, it's not about race. It's about the guy's skill set.

And I think you know that Rosen is my favorite qb in this draft. I think I have been pretty clear it's because of how accurate he is and how he reads coverages. I don't see those things in Lamar or any of the other qbs this year.

Darnold might be the closest, but there is still a gap there.

I never said this, but your defensiveness is eye opening.

I think race is a legitimate issue. I'm tired of hearing about what Jackson "is" while also hearing about what Josh Allen "could be." I don't see anyone else talking about Allen moving to wide receiver because he simply can't be a quarterback.

Jackson isn't my guy. I think he requires too much development, and we've already got that in Kizer. At the same time, Jackson is as talented as anyone in the class, and the sky is the limit if he finds a team who is willing to allow him time to develop and put him in a system that suits his strengths.

If he's our guy though, I'm not against it. He's a lot of fun to watch.

Why do you need to make this personal? You are the one who brought up race. Not me. I responded to your comments about being called a racist because people think Lamar is dumb.

I had already given my reason for not liking Lamar as a top 2 qb. I then reiterated that reason and tried to clarify it's not about race w/many of us.

I think some people discount him because he's black and he can run. I also think we have posters on this board that champion black qbs year in and year out. It works both ways.

However, I think the majority of posters are not influenced by the race of a qb. I would prefer that we talk about the guy's talents and skill sets and leave race out of it and I sure don't like you pointing an accusing finger at me w/that uncalled for "defensive" comment.

Well there was this at one time...


Link

I said Allen should move to TE before that guy did, lol.


In the right situation/coaching I could definitely see Jackson having Watson level impact.

If every QB reached their peak, Lamar Jackson would be the best.

I think it would be close between him and Allen.
If Allen reaches his peak he would be like a plus version of Wentz...something like a cross between Wentz-Newton

Agreed. I love Lamar Jackson and am jealous of teams that have a chance of drafting him.

The thought of Jackson and Barkley in the same backfield has me warming to the idea of Saquon.

Saquon at 1?

I'm not sure if I'm quite ready to go there yet. Before the past week or so, I'd have said no way. The pairing of those two is intriguing, though, and you might have to take Barkley there to do it.

My dream Draft right now is managing to snag Barkley and Fitzpatrick at the top and Jackson at 33. Highly doubt it works out that way though.

Not sure they'd be the right fit for Hue/Haley, but in the right system they'd be fun to watch.

I'm thinking RPOs where the running game is attacking the edges and backside contain. Easier reads in the passing game.

Not really a fan of Barkley between the tackles, though.

Yes, absolutely. and then Jackson at 4

I think Lamar will help the running game of any team. Even if he only keeps it a handful of times a game his run threat will keep the backside contain and pursuit honest scared.

The hypothetical pairing of Quan and Lamar would easily create one of the best run offenses in the league.

I don't know about Lamar's fit with Haley/Hue. But then again I didn't expect Obrien + Watson to work out so well so quickly. And Haley and Obrien share the same offense: Erhardt-Perkins so there's that...

I've been saying for a while now, that I dont think you could go wrong with any of these top QB's (not including Allen in this category).

Whether we get Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen, or Jackson, I think they will all have success in the league.

That being said, I've thought about an offense with Jackson and Barkley as well. The potential to be a dynamic offense... I mean we could ultimately have a 2016 Cowboys like run. Defenses having to contain a mobile QB and talented RB, while also containing Gordon, Coleman, and solid pair of TE's.

We have the ammo to draft back into the 1st round... Just think:
1A - Barkley - HB
1B - Fitzpatrick - FS
1C (trade up) - Jackson - QB

I dont think anyone said EVERYONE who doent like him is racist

But, there is a subtle racist tendency with guys like Lamar, where an assumption is made about intelligence

Welp, we disagree on his accuracy. And his injury history doesn't suggest he's anymore likely to be injured then the other prospects who've actually been injured despite being tackled far less often. And obviously he's not going to run in the NFL at anywhere near the same rate as his offense asked him to in college.

I like White too...as far as who will have the better career i'll leave that to you...i just like to evaluate skillset

huh, well since Rodgers went....what # again? he had accuracy issues.

lol, you can think whatever you like....for whatever reason you like............either way its got nothing to do with me

Well I was using your own ridiculous logic that a QB who drops automatically has accuracy issues.

There’s plenty to be concerned about with Lamar, but i find it odd that when evidence is given to you that shows some of your opinions on him isn’t what’s actually be displayed on the field, you dismiss it anyway.

I mean damn, I’m not even a Rosen fan, but you did the same thing to him with regards to Mayfield. You’re stuck on Mayfield, admit that you didn’t watch a lot of Rosen, but are somehow steadfast on your opinion of Mayfield.

And again to qualify my statement, I’m cool with either Mayfield or Lamar, so when you talk about Mayfield, I agree with you.

Honestly I just wish the eotab of the past would post. You use to always watch a lot of top of the top 5 guys, and I remember you breaking stuff down on the old board too.

Atleast then with Lamar, Mayfield, and Allen, if you did that and then had these sorts of opinions, I could be like “ok, this is his legit opinion”

Lamar easily has the highest ceiling of any QB coming out this draft. Hell, I could make the argument that he also doesn’t have the lowest floor, that’s for guys like Allen and Rudolph. If you think it’s a good idea to get a vet/bridge QB and not have our future QB start day one, then I don’t see why we wouldn’t take Lamar or Mayfield and let them develop.

Hell, we WOULDNT even have to draft them two #1 or #4. We could trade up with the abundance of draft picks into the mid teens and have a shot at those guys.