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I wouldn't freak out until Bradford was hurt again by the 2nd quarter of the season opener, Vers.
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j/c
As I've pointed out and shown, MOST NFL teams go the draft route to answer their QB position. Very few have long term success going the FA route. I'm not saying it's impossible for this FO to go the FA route to answer the position, but the likelihood is slim.
So how much will this FO pay for someone to be a bridge QB for a year or two at most? Well IMO that's a delicate balance. If they go the draft route and draft a QB at #1 like Rosen or Darnold, you're not going to pay a fortune for your bridge QB. Guys like Alex Smith or Kirk Cousins aren't guys who will be in contention. If the Bengals win in arbitration and put a first round tender on A.J., he's not going to be in contention either.
Yet at the same time, you want a bridge QB who can come in as a spot starter in case of injury. Sure Case Keenum and Nick Foles aren't world beaters, but look at how far they took their teams when injury hit. So going the cheap route isn't always a good avenue to follow.
It's a tricky proposition to say the least. I just hope that most of our fans aren't seriously hoping for a flavor of the day to be signed as our FA choice at the QB position, because if we plan to invest at #1 in the draft at QB, we aren't going to sell the farm for his eventual back up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I wouldn't freak out until Bradford was hurt again by the 2nd quarter of the season opener, Vers. It's time to put Bradford's knees to pasture.
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When did we start talking about McCarron? Shocking. I like the vet and high draft QB at 1. Let's be wrong that way for a change.
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I wouldn't freak out until Bradford was hurt again by the 2nd quarter of the season opener, Vers. Which is why the answer to FA or draft is both. We could draft Rosen and he could get another concussion or worse in his first game as well. Some rocket surgeons think it's stupid to get a vet when we invest a high pick in a QB. Those same guys complained that we had to play Kizer because we didn't have a vet that could win games on the roster. Stupid would be ASSuming that we got it right with that #1 pick after our history of getting it wrong. Stupid would be putting all of our eggs in one basket one more time. Smart would be to make two legitimate efforts to get a QB this year. In the situation where we don't Browns things up and actually have 2 good QB's we can always trade one of them. Nobody can tell you for certain that our #1 pick will pan out, but the rocket surgeons here want you to bet the bank on it.
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Actually signing a FA and drafting a QB is the only way to go. But you're not going to sign a FA that you have to pay 20+ million for four years to be your backup in a year. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure that out but a little common sense doesn't hurt.
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No the rocket surgeons struggle with the idea that teams will trade for a franchise QB with a $20 mil contract. They aren't that easy to find.
ASSuming that our #1 pick is the next Peyton Manning and taking a vet off the junk pile is the rocket surgeon choice.
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Actually signing a FA and drafting a QB is the only way to go. But you're not going to sign a FA that you have to pay 20+ million for four years to be your backup in a year. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure that out but a little common sense doesn't hurt. But with $117M in cap space, spending $20+M for a 4 yr bridge/backup is doable. And if you don't need him after 2 years, there is always a market for QBs.
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No the rocket surgeons struggle with the idea that teams will trade for a franchise QB with a $20 mil contract. They aren't that easy to find.
ASSuming that our #1 pick is the next Peyton Manning and taking a vet off the junk pile is the rocket surgeon choice. You're actually perpetuating a false narrative here. I'm not posting what I want, I'm posting what happens in the NFL. Actually, if I had exactly what I want, I would like to see Cousins, Alex Smith and a #1 draft pick taken. I mean why not? If Cousins goes down we would have Alex Smith on the roster so the rookie wouldn't have to start before he's ready, right? Then we would have three QB's with two QB's we could trade for a kings ransom. But that's not really the issue here. NFL teams simply don't do what you're proposing. That's the point. What team have you ever seen that pays a FA NFL top 10 QB money to, because that's what it will take to sign Cousins, and then turn around and spend the #1 pick in the draft on a QB? I can never recall that ever being done. I'm just looking at the history of the NFL and how they address the QB position. At the most likely scenario here. People just keep posing a scenario that's never happened. Is it impossible that it happens? No. But if it does, we'll be setting up a situation that's never happened before. The likelihood of that is slim to none and none is leading the race right now. Now if you wish to debate topics, stop with the bull crap and names and let's discuss it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I just gave you a list of QB's in the other thread.
Brady sat behind Bledsoe
Rivers sat behind Brees
Young sat behind Montana
Palmer sat behind Kitna
Rodgers sat behind Farve for years.
Mahomes just sat behind Smith.
Why does this seem so difficult for you?
1) We have the money.
2) Teams will trade for a franchise QB if we don't want him. They'll pay a lot as well.
Where do the complications come in for you?
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McCarron could turn out to be a franchise QB, nobody truly knows the answer to him just yet, so if we get him as a FA or in a trade then we draft a QB number 1 and see how McCarron does, if he turns out to be good then we have a younger franchise QB waiting in the wings. If not then our young QB gets a baptism by fire with a better all around team surrounding him through FA and the Draft ... 
Last edited by PastorMarc; 01/22/18 12:56 PM.
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And none of your scenarios or parameters you set for the Browns are the same.. Let's try this again, shall we?
Name one team who signed a FA QB to a top 10 paid FA contract and drafted a QB at #1 in the draft in the same season.
Brady late round pick and Bledsoe started before Brady was ever drafted.
Brees was there before Rivers was drafted
Montana was there well before Young was drafted.
Kitna was not paid a top ten NFL QB salary and was there before Palmer was drafted.
Favre was there for many years before Rodgers was drafted. Rodgers was a late first round pick. Not drafted #1.
Smith was there for year before Mahomes was drafted. Mahomes was not the #1 pick.
People can see what you've tried to do here. None of these situations match the scenario you are proposing. And you know that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I agree with this. It doesn't make logical sense to pay Kirk Cousins and draft a QB high. Signing Kirk Cousins, which I don't think is likely, is a signal that the QB problems are solved and we will build around him.
Given the above scenario, I might just punt on the QB position altogether (unless we can get Lamar Jackson in the second round) and go with DeShone Kizer as the backup developmental QB.
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I certainly believe they will sign a FA. I just don't think it will be some huge, starter type of investment.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I certainly believe they will sign a FA. I just don't think it will be some huge, starter type of investment. Agreed. I think it'll be someone they can go year-to-year with. Kind of like the Bears did with Mike Glennon.
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Your rite they shouldn't get a good proven QB that can win games and a great QB prospect in the draft that would only screw things up from being a perpetual losers and an embarrassment to you dawgs....lol and smh
J/C
Last edited by Riley01; 01/22/18 02:04 PM.
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Your rite they shouldn't get a good proven QB that can win games and a great QB prospect in the draft that would only screw things up from being a perpetual losers and an embarrassment to you dawgs....lol and smh How long would you like Kirk Cousins to be the QB for? Two years? Less? More? If you sign Kirk Cousins, you're hoping he is the long term solution at QB. I would say that means at least five seasons. So then you draft a QB first overall, that players contract runs four years (with a fifth year option). So now, after five years, you have to decide on the future of your franchise. You have to choose to keep Kirk Cousins or the guy who has, hopefully, never played a meaningful snap.
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Name one team who signed a FA QB to a top 10 paid FA contract and drafted a QB at #1 in the draft in the same season.
Maybe it's never been done because no one has had the Browns combination of need, desperation, and resources before. I'm not particularly interested in Cousins, so I don't care if he isn't interested. But if we could use some of that obscene amount of cap space to get KC to trade Smith without giving up anything higher than a 4th round pick, that would be, to me, the ideal solution.
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And none of your scenarios or parameters you set for the Browns are the same.. Let's try this again, shall we?
Name one team who signed a FA QB to a top 10 paid FA contract and drafted a QB at #1 in the draft in the same season.
Brady late round pick and Bledsoe started before Brady was ever drafted. (That didn't keep them from trading Bledsoe to the Bills as soon as they saw what they had in Brady)
Brees was there before Rivers was drafted(And young and on his first contract and playing well, they traded him)
Montana was there well before Young was drafted.(And a Hall of Famer, they traded him)
Kitna was not paid a top ten NFL QB salary and was there before Palmer was drafted. (Kitna threw for 3500 yds and 26 tds the year Palmer sat.)
Favre was there for many years before Rodgers was drafted. Rodgers was a late first round pick. Not drafted #1. (Farve also was a HOFer and teams with a HOF QB rarely have the #1 pick while their still playing, but I'm betting that you knew that already.)
Smith was there for year before Mahomes was drafted. Mahomes was not the #1 pick. (But Mahomes was their #1 pick. Smith had the highest QBR in the leauge this year, is only 33, and they still drafted his replacement.)
People can see what you've tried to do here. None of these situations match the scenario you are proposing. And you know that. You keep trying to switch all of your requirements on me around hoping that you eventually hit on a combination that weakly proves your point, but how about last year? Mike Glennon signed a 3 year $45 mil contract with the Bears and then they traded up to the #2 spot to sign Mr Biscuit. Did they go in thinking they wanted a $15 mil backup or did they hedge their bets in case the QB they picked didn't work out? If the only argument you have is that nobody has ever done it before, my argument is that it is about time that somebody did.
Last edited by DeputyDawg; 01/22/18 02:37 PM.
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Your rite they shouldn't get a good proven QB that can win games and a great QB prospect in the draft that would only screw things up from being a perpetual losers and an embarrassment to you dawgs....lol and smh How long would you like Kirk Cousins to be the QB for? Two years? Less? More? If you sign Kirk Cousins, you're hoping he is the long term solution at QB. I would say that means at least five seasons. So then you draft a QB first overall, that players contract runs four years (with a fifth year option). So now, after five years, you have to decide on the future of your franchise. You have to choose to keep Kirk Cousins or the guy who has, hopefully, never played a meaningful snap. If our rookie sucks, I'd like him to play until our rookie doesn't suck, then I would like to trade him.
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Your rite they shouldn't get a good proven QB that can win games and a great QB prospect in the draft that would only screw things up from being a perpetual losers and an embarrassment to you dawgs....lol and smh How long would you like Kirk Cousins to be the QB for? Two years? Less? More? If you sign Kirk Cousins, you're hoping he is the long term solution at QB. I would say that means at least five seasons. So then you draft a QB first overall, that players contract runs four years (with a fifth year option). So now, after five years, you have to decide on the future of your franchise. You have to choose to keep Kirk Cousins or the guy who has, hopefully, never played a meaningful snap. If our rookie sucks, I'd like him to play until our rookie doesn't suck, then I would like to trade him. How do you know if the rookie sucks or not if he doesn't play?
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What if this What if that....scenario...look... all I'm saying is you never can have enough good QBs period...ask Belichk
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Your rite they shouldn't get a good proven QB that can win games and a great QB prospect in the draft that would only screw things up from being a perpetual losers and an embarrassment to you dawgs....lol and smh How long would you like Kirk Cousins to be the QB for? Two years? Less? More? If you sign Kirk Cousins, you're hoping he is the long term solution at QB. I would say that means at least five seasons. So then you draft a QB first overall, that players contract runs four years (with a fifth year option). So now, after five years, you have to decide on the future of your franchise. You have to choose to keep Kirk Cousins or the guy who has, hopefully, never played a meaningful snap. If our rookie sucks, I'd like him to play until our rookie doesn't suck, then I would like to trade him. How do you know if the rookie sucks or not if he doesn't play? You might not be able to see if a rookie is great in practice, but you can sure as heck see if a rookie sucks in practice. You can also throw a rookie out there in a game late in the season knowing that you can put a decent QB back in if the rookie isn't ready.
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And that's fine if you think it's time that somebody did. It seems you conveniently ignore the fact that I would love that it happened too.
But Glennon is no Cousins. And the price tag won't be either. And BTW- my parameters have been consistent from the very start. Nobody changed anything.
It's just that you're setting up a scenario that has almost zero chance of happening.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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MAN...don't get me wrong cause I have much love for all you dawgs but ,I think that some here don't want a winner cause the wouldn't have anything to bitch about LOL
J/C
Last edited by Riley01; 01/22/18 03:17 PM.
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I think it's more a case that some of aren't confusing what we want with what we're most likely going to get.
NFL teams just don't sign a FA QB to a four year deal paying him 20+ million a year and draft a QB #1 overall in the draft the same season.
Hey it would be great if they would but history pretty much dictates they won't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Lol, yeah those parameters stayed constant, You just kept adding more as we went.
It went from why would a team have a good vet QB and then draft a good QB high in the draft to spending top 10 money on the FA and specifically the #1 pick and only the #1 pick in the draft. That certainly filters everything out quite nicely.
Glennon was not paid $15 mil a year to be a back-up. He was expected to compete for the starting job.
It has a great chance of happening. I'll leave you with a scenario someone else brought up. If the Browns broke the bank and paid Drew Brees $35 mil a year making him the highest paid QB in the NFL, they would still have more cap space than anyone else in the draft. At Drew's age, I would be shocked if we passed on a #1 QB in the draft if we felt that someone we wanted was there. The Packers didn't pass when they had Farve. The 49ers didn't pass when they had Montana.
You keep trying every avenue possible to get a QB until you are certain that you have a QB.
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My question has been consistent from the start. In neither of your cases did those teams draft a QB at #1 in the draft, period. You do realize that Steve Young wasn't even drafted by the 49'ers and was taken in the supplemental draft by Tampa Bay, right? You do realize that Rodgers was drafted at pick #24, right?
I'll tell you what, once you actually answer my question, I'll answer some more of yours.
Name one NFL team that signed a FA QB and paid him top 10 money at the QB position AND drafted a QB at #1 in the draft. Or, paid a FA QB over 20 million a year on a four year deal and drafted a QB at #1 in that same draft.
I've got time, but so far you've done everything but answer that question. This isn't the political forum.
BTW- I gave you the option of *top 10 money* because the NFL hasn't been paying QB's over 20 million a year for all that long. So *top 10 money* gives you a much larger window of opportunity. You're welcome.
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Yep, I do understand Young was drafted by TB and that the 49ers still saw enough of what they were looking for to go after him even with Montana on the roster. I also understand that the Packers took Rodgers with THE HIGHEST PICK THEY HAD even though they also had a HOFer on the roster. I also understand that teams don't always take a QB with the #1 pick even when they need a QB. Sometimes there isn't one there. I also understand that in the last 20 years there were only 20 #1 picks. I also understand that players didn't start making $20 mil a year until 2012. So I also understand what you really are asking me is that if we go back the last 5 years how many of those 5 teams that had #1 picks also paid $20 mil to a vet while drafting a QB with that #1 pick even if they didn't have the $20 mil cap space to spend or if there wasn't a #1 QB in that draft. Lots of history we can go back to there. That's what I get for trying to reason with a rocket surgeon. 
Last edited by DeputyDawg; 01/22/18 05:01 PM.
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Yep, I do understand Young was drafted by TB and that the 49ers still saw enough of what they were looking for to go after him even with Montana on the roster. I also understand that the Packers took Rodgers with THE HIGHEST PICK THEY HAD even though they also had a HOFer on the roster.
I also understand that teams don't always take a QB with the #1 pick even when they need a QB. Sometimes there isn't one there.
I also understand that in the last 20 years there were only 20 #1 picks.
I also understand that players didn't start making $20 mil a year until 2012.
So I also understand what you really are asking me is that if we go back the last 5 years how many of those 5 teams that had #1 picks also paid $20 mil to a vet while drafting a QB with that #1 pick even if they didn't have the $20 mil cap space to spend or if there wasn't a #1 QB in that draft.
Lots of history we can go back to there. That's what I get for trying to reason with a rocket surgeon.
Dude. Just STOP. The Packers took Rodger's with the highest pick they had? Lmao. Just WOW. NEXT?
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What if this What if that....scenario...look... all I'm saying is you never can have enough good QBs period...ask Belichk Yeah. Go ask him now. He's BONED when Brady goes down.
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Yep, I do understand Young was drafted by TB and that the 49ers still saw enough of what they were looking for to go after him even with Montana on the roster. I also understand that the Packers took Rodgers with THE HIGHEST PICK THEY HAD even though they also had a HOFer on the roster.
I also understand that teams don't always take a QB with the #1 pick even when they need a QB. Sometimes there isn't one there.
I also understand that in the last 20 years there were only 20 #1 picks.
I also understand that players didn't start making $20 mil a year until 2012.
So I also understand what you really are asking me is that if we go back the last 5 years how many of those 5 teams that had #1 picks also paid $20 mil to a vet while drafting a QB with that #1 pick even if they didn't have the $20 mil cap space to spend or if there wasn't a #1 QB in that draft.
Lots of history we can go back to there. That's what I get for trying to reason with a rocket surgeon.
Dude. Just STOP. The Packers took Rodger's with the highest pick they had? Lmao. Just WOW. NEXT? I guess I'm missing something here. It appears the packers DID take Rodgers with their highest pick that year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NFL_DraftOr, maybe that link is wrong. What am I missing?
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You are missing that buddies are buddies forever, even when one of those buddies is struggling in an argument.
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Yep, I do understand Young was drafted by TB and that the 49ers still saw enough of what they were looking for to go after him even with Montana on the roster. I also understand that the Packers took Rodgers with THE HIGHEST PICK THEY HAD even though they also had a HOFer on the roster.
I also understand that teams don't always take a QB with the #1 pick even when they need a QB. Sometimes there isn't one there.
I also understand that in the last 20 years there were only 20 #1 picks.
I also understand that players didn't start making $20 mil a year until 2012.
So I also understand what you really are asking me is that if we go back the last 5 years how many of those 5 teams that had #1 picks also paid $20 mil to a vet while drafting a QB with that #1 pick even if they didn't have the $20 mil cap space to spend or if there wasn't a #1 QB in that draft.
Lots of history we can go back to there. That's what I get for trying to reason with a rocket surgeon.
Dude. Just STOP. The Packers took Rodger's with the highest pick they had? Lmao. Just WOW. NEXT? I guess I'm missing something here. It appears the packers DID take Rodgers with their highest pick that year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NFL_DraftOr, maybe that link is wrong. What am I missing? Lmao. You're nominated. Pick 24. Follow the Bouncing Ball. Not what at least Pit and I are talking about. Maybe we need to be more simplistic? Whatcha think Pit? It ain't Rocket science.
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You'd better check the air in your ball, cause your ball doesn't even bounce. HERE is what you replied to, in a snarky way I might add: I also understand that the Packers took Rodgers with THE HIGHEST PICK THEY HAD even though they also had a HOFer on the roster. HERE is your reply: The Packers took Rodger's with the highest pick they had? Lmao What are you laughing about? The packers DID, in fact, pick rodgers with their highest pick. If you don't have a compressor, many/most gas stations do. Take your ball to a gas station, and take a few quarters with you, and fill your ball with air so it at least bounces.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518 |
So I guess you don't think that the BROWNS should do everything possible to secure the QB position even if it takes getting a solid QB and draft one also? Well...ok if that's what you believe that but I happen to respectfully disagree cause until then a 5 win season is all we have to look forward to , and I for one just aint IMHO
Last edited by Riley01; 01/22/18 06:37 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
So now that Haley is our OC does this thread even exists anymore???
The O is going to be Haley's project I think he is going to have a big say in the QB for his program.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518 |
I was just giving a dream scenario on fixing the QB woes and if You think HALEY is the guy to do it that's great cause I value you opinion.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I wouldn't freak out until Bradford was hurt again by the 2nd quarter of the season opener, Vers.  Very nice! You made me laugh. I better clarify though...........I wasn't talking about as a starter, but as back-up vet guy if we went w/a rookie like Rosen. But again, that was a great line.
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