DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Josh Allen

This is a major point, might be easily missed, but Dorsey is on point so far IMO. He has said a few times statements to the effect of QB qualities he requires. One was to see them in a game situation rather than the hyped up noise and criticism and praise of college or practices; the second is he must be a winner. I did not see all the Senior Bowl, but I was truly impressed by the first drive JA had after the half to get a score. Lot of good there. He impressed me. Is it true Mayfield left?

He's not as good as Kizer. Plus Kizer has a year of starting in the NFL under his belt. Allen won't be our guy, they didn't run pro concepts at Wyoming and he's going to need a lot of time before he's ready to start in the NFL.

I'm curious to see who we get as our vet QB especially if it's not cousins or smith. The thing is of all the quarterbacks in the draft I think Rosen and Mayfield are the only two who could start week 1. I wouldn't feel comfortable starting any other rookie.

I agree.

So much better than Kizer and they ran a pro-style offense in Wyoming - same offense as Carson Wentz ran - same head coach.

He may be inaccurate at times, but he makes throws nobody else in the draft can make. Having said that, Darnold is the guy, IMHO.

Incorrect.

I'll fine tune that to pro concepts which for all intents and purposes could be considered the same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6GJvVDWIIo

Mason can make any throw in the game just look at the first 1 minute of this video and say again that he can't. From the 15 yard line on one side to the 30 on the other side he hits him like effortlessly.

At 2:26 Throwing from the 7 yard line to the 37 on the opposite side of the field. Hits the man in stride and drops in down in the bucket. There is a reason he throws the deep ball better than anyone else. Man it's not even close.

Wyoming runs a pro-style offense with presumably pro concepts (whatever the heck you mean by that).

"Luckily for Allen, he is coached by Craig Bohl, the same steady hand that brought Wentz to North Dakota State and molded that program into a small-school powerhouse. And, lucky for Allen, he is playing in a pro-style offense that forces him to make downfield reads, scan the field and make throws from the pocket, showcasing the very attributes that make those scouts and GMs drool. And, luckily for Bohl, Allen has a similar mentality and attitude as Wentz -- far beyond driven and motivated, eager to learn, a natural born leader without cockiness or entitlement -- which will make handling his impending fame, fortune and national attention much easier."

Still not correct. Spread offense. Not "pro style."

Wrongo.

Spread is what your beloved Mayfield ran at OK.

Great post. I agree 100%

I'm a little late to this thread and I'm sure there's been a lot of pro's and cons thrown around here on Josh Allen.

I'll say this, ..his performance in the senior bowl opened my eyes. He struggled early in the game but he didn't give up the ball. He held on to the ball much to long and ran a lot in the first half and then he put on a show in the second half. He has the tools and the size. He'll be a NFL starter soon.

Not wrong. Maybe you should watch a game...

Maybe you should get a clue.

I don't have a clear opinion on Allen as a prospect yet. But in response to the quote above the difference between the Wentz and Allen is production and efficiency. Sure, the played in the same "pro-style" offense at lower level divisions BUT Wentz was more productive. Is it a question of accuracy? Decision making? Who knows for sure.
2014 Wentz 63.7 comp% 3,111 yards 154 rating
2016 Allen 56.0 comp% 3,203 yards 145 rating (per PFF...w/ a drop rate of 4.8% 50th compared to a drop rate of 7.3% for Rosen 16th, 8% Jackson 8th, 6.1% Mayfield 29th so Allen's drop rate excuse doesn't hold much water in 2016 haven't seen the numbers for 2017 yet)

Somethings are opinion and that's fine. The type of offense a prospect played in isn't a matter of opinion though.

Allen did not play in a spread.

Well, if you guys want to think he was in a pro-style offense and didn't run any type of spread offense, go on ahead. But it's not true.

They run a pro-style offense with some spread concepts like jet sweeps, RPOs, and smoke routes sprinkled in. Is that what you are looking for.

However, by far and large, they run a pro-style offense at Wyoming.

This is fine. For the most part I believe it's a spread offense with some pro style stuff sprinkled in... but let's just go with a happy median.

aye we both agree on that

Agreed. Sometimes folks need to remember that everything doesn't have to be "this" or "that"


Like, I really want shrimp and grits right now. There's many different ways to make shrimp and grits, with different ingredients. And two plates that might have the same ingredients might taste totally different (one being good and the other being awful, just based off how they're cooked), and two plates that might have different ingredients might both be really good.


Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger are very different players yet they're both very good.

For all who want Allen how does he compare to Kiser? Everything depends on the veteran QB we get.

You are wasting your time on that guy. He makes stuff up all the time and acts like others are the ones doing it. Just ignore him.

I do have to say that it's gotten so weird on here that so many people are so set in their minds about qbs and will defend those opinions w/so much passion.

Allen has more talent then Kizer ever will, both are similar but Allen has arm talent that most just don’t have, nobody has. And Wyoming ran the exact same offense Wentz did in college, same coach, I believe. Not saying he’s our guy or anything but he did run a more pro style offense then most in this draft.

At the Senior Bowl on Tuesday, Josh Allen told reporters something that you don’t often hear.

“I want to be the guy that turns around the Cleveland Browns,” he said.

While that could indicate he’d like to be the top pick in the draft, Allen said, “It’s not about going as high as possible,” he said. “It’s about the right fit.”

To be fair, that’s true. The Browns could still take Allen with the No. 4 pick in the draft. Though you might imagine if they feel he could be the one, they’d be inclined to take him No. 1 overall, since they let Deshaun Watson go to the Texans last year, and traded the No. 2 overall pick in 2016 to the Eagles, which was used on Carson Wentz.

For what it’s worth, ESPN’s Mel Kiper does indeed have the Browns taking him with the top pick. But there’s more to it than just that.

He might be the only QB in the draft who actually wants to play for the Browns.
Allen’s comments come after there have been reports in the past few months that both Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen don’t want to play for the Browns.

A report in November from The MMQB’s Albert Breer said that Darnold would want to see who had the top pick or two in the NFL draft, because if it was the Browns he would want to stay. Darnold ended up declaring for the draft anyway. In Dan Kadar’s latest mock draft, he had Darnold going to ... the Cleveland Browns.

In late December, ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported that Rosen had doubts about declaring for the draft if there was a chance the Browns were going to take him, with the franchise not being stable and having started 28 quarterbacks since 1999.

At the very least, we know that Allen would like to. “Given an opportunity of being able to go to Cleveland and help change the culture there and be a part of a really good team... They’re a young team, so they’re going to be really good in the next coming years. They’re doing the right things with their new GM,” he said via NFL.com.


”To get the opportunity to go there and kind of be the guy would be special, but like I said, they’re going to do what’s best for the franchise.”

He’s been exuding confidence since arriving in Mobile.
Allen compared his confidence to a pair of all-time great quarterbacks. “Looking back at guys like [Brett] Favre and [Aaron] Rodgers, they’re not afraid to put it in any spot on the field,” Allen said. “I’ve got kind of the same [gunslinger] mindset.”

But he also wants teams to understand what type of person he is both on and off the field.

“I want them to know that I can understand football terminology. Obviously coming from Wyoming and not playing against the greatest competition week in and week out, I don’t think that has anything to do with football IQ. And I want them to understand that I have a high football IQ and I love this game.

“If there is one thing about me, I do love the game of football and this is the only thing I’ve ever wanted for my entire life – to be an NFL quarterback.”

And let’s be real — you have to be one confident football player to want to play for the Browns after the past 18 seasons and 28 quarterbacks in front of you.

There are still questions surrounding his game.
Allen’s career completion percentage as a starter is just 56.1. He told reporters about the percentage: “I’m way more accurate than that [number] shows.”

When looking at quarterbacks who have been drafted with similar college numbers, it’s not a great look:

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charles mcdonald
@FourVerts
Replying to @FourVerts
thought it was going to be hard finding QBs similar to josh allen that went in the first round. turns out, 2011 draft had 3 in the top 12.

4:43 PM - Dec 8, 2017
14 14 Replies 59 59 Retweets 92 92 likes
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He also said Monday on 92.3 The Fan, “Stats are for losers and the one thing I’d like to point out, while at Wyoming, we won games and I definitely think that’s how quarterbacks are judged in the NFL.” Mel Kiper also said something similar.

Wyoming never won more than eight games while he was quarterback. But at the same time, they never won more than five dating back to 2012, so he was part of a turnaround in Laramie.

And while he’s been confident in his abilities, he’s also realistic when it comes to his game. “It’s a tough situation obviously to come in as a rookie and expect to be perfect right away,” he said. “I know that I have a lot of flaws as a quarterback.”

The Browns went 0-16 last season and will have a new offensive coordinator in Todd Haley. Haley’s going to be Hue Jackson’s first offensive coordinator since being in Cleveland.

Whether or not you’re a fan of Allen’s game, to hear a player want to play for the Cleveland Browns is entertaining. How he performs at the Senior Bowl and NFL Combine could either help or hurt his case in trying to be the player that turns around the NFL’s longest-suffering franchise.

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/1/23/16924462/josh-rosen-cleveland-browns-nfl-draft-2018

huh...change of pace. someone wants to be drafted by us. (QB).

Are you tellin' me...

We gotta get this guy?

We already have this guy. His name is Kizer.

So much better than Kizer.

Your welcome to your opinion but I don't agree. I do like Allen's personality better though.

nope, simply stated that it's a change of pace so far...he actually wants to come here.

nothing more, nothing less

at this point, anybody is better than Kizer.

lol. I know, but as a Browns fan, it's easy to fall head over heels for a guy with this much talent that actually sees the upside and openly wants to be a part of the journey. When I script the next "Because... Cleveland" narrative, I see us passing on the humble, hard working kid who grew up on a farm - because of the scars from the last willing participant... Mr "Wreck this league". Allen goes on to be an MVP QB when he could have been the Paul Bunyan of the AFC North for the next 15 years.

That's how it works in Cleveland, and him being open about wanting to come here (when almost every other QB in the NFL or College is pretty open about trying to avoid it), makes an interesting story line leading up to the draft and free agency. And let's be honest, embattled Browns fans will be a sucker for anyone that wants to come to where "QBs go to die".

Don't care what he wants. He is not good enough to deserve to be a top 10 pick. Lol of course he wants to come here so he can get an extra 10 million dollars. I can guarantee you we are not picking him at #1 overall. There is no way our scouting department is that bad.

Allen is raw talent. He has the arm and size. He needs a great coaching staff to develop him now. He'll be a fine NFL starting QB if he gets that type of attention early on.

Raw talent sure. He definitely has raw talent and that is why he is at best a 2nd to 3rd rounder. He is so inaccurate though that I would never draft him. When their college completion percentage is under 60% they almost never make it in the NFL. I mean if you can't pass to guys in the kiddie league it sure wont get easier when you start trying to complete passes when your playing grown men.

I mean he could always surprise us but you just don't take that kind of a QB in round one unless your desperate and there is nothing else to draft. You usually draft them in the third or later as a developmental project you don't plan to play for years.

I’ve compared Allen to Favre, undisciplined gunslinger with elite arm talent, and the college stats of both are also very comparable. Not saying Allen ends up being the next Favre just saying it has happened where a QB with accuracy issues in college has done well with NFL level coaching.

Pat Mahomes: RAW talent / canon for an arm

Weaknesses:
Gunslinger who can be reckless with the football
Has some mechanical issues to fix
Throws too many passes back across the field
Can sail deep balls too far
Will need to learn working under center
Will have to work on footwork with making drops from under center
Will need to learn working a NFL huddle
Will need to improve footwork
Needs development for a pro-style offense
College offense ran lot of plays he won't run in the NFL
Needs to take more check downs
Needs to work on staying in and being comfortable in the pocket

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2017pmahomes.php#60tS6mERz7oik78d.99

Drafted at 10. Organization ready to move on from top tier QB one year later...

Raw talent goes according to perceived upside, plain and simple. When a player has ALL the tools, they go higher in the draft than their completion pct, yards per carry, etc... I'm not an advocate of drafting him #1 overall. My dream scenario is out the window because I wanted Alex Smith and to to move out of #1 and draft Allen at about 6-10.

No way I take allen before the end of the second and don't want him really till the third.

Also mahomes was a lot more accurate. His last college season he was at 65% completion % which meets the golden rule of 60%. Plus he was great at running into the endzone to get rushing tds. Not to mention he played in a tougher conference. I had mahomes rated at a top 15 pick and predicted he he got to sit a year that he would really be a great pick up. I wanted us to draft him I know that much.

They are really not very similar at all.

Bet he be gone in the first round with SEVERAL others