DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Training Camp Log: Day 1- Mary Kay Cabot

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of CF at this point. As it's been said repeatedly,"this is an open QB comp."

Cf will have his opportunity this year to prove himself under much friendlier conditions(hopefully).

If he's the best of what we have,...he'll start.

You mean, "he didn't show improvement regardless of any measurement you might show me that says he did improve."

I expected more from you PPE. Stats are not the way to determine a QB's progress.

Ben Rothlisberger's QB rating in his rookie season was 98.1. Does that mean he's a great QB? No. And anyone that watches the game knows that he's not a great QB. But, his rookie season QB rating was the highest ever. QB ratings mean nothing to me.

Tell me, what improvements did you SEE Charlie make? Throw out all the stats... what did you see Charlie physically improve? Because I didn't see any.

I expected more from you UK... to dismiss any/all statistics just because you can say "STATS ARE FOR LOSERS, LOLZ0RZ." when they don't align with your perspective is shortsighted and, well.. funny.

Can stats tell the whole story? Hell no, they cannot. Can they give insight? Damned straight.

I'm not dismissing all stats. I'm dismissing QB rating because it's a joke.

How about this...

2005: November (2 games)... 2 INT's (0 TD's)
2005: December (4 games).... 2 INT's (3 TD's)
2005: January (1 games)... 1 INT (1 TD)

2006: September (3 games)... 5 INT's (2 TD's)
2006: October (4 games).... 6 INT's (5 TD's)
2006 November (4 games)... 5 INT's (2 TD's)
2006 December (1 game plus 1 1/2 quarter)... 1 INT (1 TD)

How about those stats? Show me the improvement.

Show em to someone else, I'm not getting into this except to dismiss your dimissal of stats.

I honestly, and truthfully, do not care if Dorsey or even Cribbs is the one that ends up as the starting QB this year. This year's success, or lack of, will have very little to do with, and will not be about, whomever the QB is... so y'all run with your whizzing contests.

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What I do find odd is how so many people are expecting Quinn to be a franchise saver so quick. It takes time for QB's to adjust to the NFL, yet people pretend that he'll take the team to the top in no time.

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And when he doesn't they'll turn on him like sour milk.

You're right about ONE thing. It takes time.

If you couldn't see improvements you are either A) Blind, B) in denial or C) didn't watch the games sober.

I heard on Channel 5 news last night that certain 'so called' Browns fans were showing up to the Browns practices to heckle Frye. Hmm, I wonder who those fans were, cough TopDawg16 cough.


Hmm, Frye didn't throw a pick in 3 of his last 5 starts.
Naw, that can't be an improvement.

Hmm, Frye improved his completion % from 61% to 67% from the 1st 6 games to his final 7 games.
Naw, that can't be an improvement.

Hmm, Frye improved his QB Rating from 67.3 in his 1st 6 games to 77.3 in his final 7 games.
Naw, that can't be an improvement.

Hmm, Frye was only sacked once in his last 2 starts.
Naw, that can't be an improvement.

Hmm, Frye started throwing more passes away out of bounds when no one was open as the season went one.
Naw, that can't be an improvement.

Hmm, Frye was 1-5 as a starter in his first 6 starts, and 3-4 in his final 7 starts.
Naw, that can't be an improvement.



Most amazing stat

Frye - 8 times had a higher QB Rating than the opponents QB during a game
Frye - 5 times had a lower QB Rating than the opponents QB during a game

Man, listening to all these impatient fans I'd of thought Frye would have had a lower QB Rating against all 13 QB's under the exact same playing conditions. Especially seeing how mediocre the Browns pass defense was last year.


Why did we lose so many games last year
31st in rush offense
31st in rush attempts

You can't do those 2 things with a 2nd year QB and expect to win.


Why did Ben Roethlisberger win as a rookie
Pitt was 2nd in rush offense
Pitt was 1st in rush attempts


Big Ben - Rookie Year
38.6 - rush attempts per game - (1st in the NFL)
154.0 - rush yards per game - (2nd in the NFL)
21.1 - Pass Attempts per game by Ben
98.1 - QB Rating

Big Ben - 2nd Year
33.4 rush attempts per game - (1st in the NFL)
138.9 - rush yards per game - (5th in the NFL)
22.3 - Pass Attempts per game by Ben
98.6 - QB Rating

Big Ben - 3rd Year
29.3 - rush attempts per game - (15th in the NFL)
124,5 - rush yards per game - (10th in the NFL)
31.3 - Pass Attempts per game by Ben
75.4 - QB Rating


Isn't that amazing how Big Ben put up nice stats, and the Steelers won when they ran the ball more than they passed. It's also amazing how Big Ben was very average when the Steelers made him throw the ball 30+ times a game. Man, and I thought QB play didn't rely on anything but the QB himself.



Charlie Frye - 2nd year
23.3 - rush attempts per game - (31st in the NFL)
83.4 - rush yards per game - (31st in the NFL)
30.2 - Pass Attempts per game - (31.4 if you count the KC game as a 1/2 instead of a full game)
72.2 - QB Rating

I'd love to see what Frye does with a team that will actually call running plays, and are effective with those running plays.

mensa.. u be killing the stats.. i do have to applaud u for ur effort.. I've never seen so many stats..

Mensa, the main question is do you really believe the Browns can win with Frye?

Throw stats out the window and go by what you see with your own eyes.

Do you believe Frye has the potential to be the long-term answer at quarterback for your Cleveland Browns?

I believe so.

And hopefully with a running game and a line he can prove me right.

I also believe we can win with Frye. Especially this year. He gives us the best chance by far.

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If you couldn't see improvements you are either A) Blind, B) in denial or C) didn't watch the games sober.

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You have a good point. Too bad it's on top of your head.



Was that digit infested post aimed as an arguement with ME?


For crying out loud dude. I reply to one of your posts agreeing with you and you jump like I just tore you a new ass. Which, by the way, you may need, judging the manner in which you've been treated on here.

I like Charlie Frye. You've never heard anything less from me. And I don't need a basket full of numbers to tell me that he didn't have a snowballs chance on Venus of keeping a drive alive last season.

I saw some improvement. But I'm damn sure not going on a mission to try to make others see it. Especially by throwing numbers in their faces. Many would choose not to see it even if it were money you were throwing.

So who the hell are you trying to convince anyway?!

The last game was eons ago. Who gives a rat's ass to dig into the most minute details to try and prove some ghostly point about the quality of Charlie Frye's play last season. It's over.

This season is this season. He should have grown. We'll see.

It's all going to play out.

And just like Christmas morning, there'll be a brand spankin' new set of numbers for you to romp around in.

This team is gonna win with Frye @ QB... yea its gonna stir up the Frye vs. Quinn debate... but Frye is gonna do his thing this year with this new o-line and new offense, not to mention a better back in Jamal Lewis.

The bandwagon will come back as if Dilfer were the starter back in 05 and Frye is waiting for his first shot...

I'm all for it!

My hope is that he is what I think he is. What I see is enough leadership, arm strength, accuracy, gus and tenacity to make plays. To win games. To pull out some tough ones.

A reasonable amount of protection and a decent running game and I believe many will be pleasantly surprised with Charlie Frye.

Quinn is still the future. If the Browns have the common sense I think they do they will not put him in a pressure cooker. They will set him up with the best chance to succeed. If that means watching, practicing and learning this season so be it.

This is the year of the Frye.

ddubia, I used the quick reply. Sorry about that. That previous post was not directed at you. It was directed at a few others on here.

Rishuz, yes I believe we can win with Frye. We are 6-12 with him as a starter, not great, but better than our 31% winning clip (40-89) since our return in 1999. Whether or not he's the guy to get us to a Super Bowl win or not, I don't know. I think Frye can lead us to the playoffs though. (Not this year though, because I think our run defense is going to kill us).

Winning % of Browns starting QB's since 1999
37.3% - 22-37 - Tim Couch
36.4% - 4-7 - Trent Dilfer
33.3% - 6-12 - Charlie Frye
30.8% - 4-9 - Kelly Holcomb
30.0% - 3-7 - Jeff Garcia
11.1% - 1-8 - Doug Pederson
0.0% - 0-4 - Luke McCown
0.0% - 0-3 - Derek Anderson
0.0% - 0-2 - Ty Detmer


Tim Couch was 4-16 as a starter after his 1st 2 years.
7-9 as a starter in year 3
8-6 as a starter in year 4
Thrown under the bus in year 5, b/c Kelly Holcomb was the flavor of the week.

I'd like to see if Frye can take that leap that most NFL QB's take between year 2 and year 3.


I'd like to see us end the following trend for once.

Leading Passer
2002 - Tim Couch
2003 - Kelly Holcomb
2004 - Jeff Garcia
2005 - Trent Dilfer
2006 - Charlie Frye
2007 - ?? - I'd love to see us try the same QB two years in a row again, I know it's crazy, but I'd love to see it.

Well, then I too am sorry for jumping all over you like that.