DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns hire Todd Haley as offensive coordinator

He's certainly pulled the wool over the eyes of some hasn't he?

He's a QB whisperer, couldn't find one or develop one, and ended up getting Sashi fired. He's an awesome play-caller and offensive coordinator, he didn't need one, but now he's quietly, on his own mind you, hired one and turned the play-calling over to him.

I guess he can keep lying to us and himself about why he does things, but his actions speak louder than words.

I, however, am holding out that this can still work. Because realistically even though we kept the HC, we really have a new dynamic in place and the defense for the first time in a little while is experiencing continuity.

What evidence do you have that Hue, in any way, got Sashi Brown fired?

Yeah it was Hues job to find the QB. That's why Sashi was fired and Hue is still here. Basic math skills around here suck. lmao

lol, that's what I'm thinking.

Sashi got fired because of the QB room that was set up last year.


Cutting Joe Haden and leaving the WR group the way it was, didn't help either.......... That and the whole AJ McCaron fiasco.


That's why Sashi was fired.......... Not saying Hue is perfect.

But where does anyone come up with "Hue got Sashi fired". Total nonsense

Once an organization has attained the "distinction" of 1-31 and 0-16, that probably means there isn't a single person in the building who HASN'T done enough dumb stuff to warrant getting fired.

I mean, seriously... the secretary allegedly sent the trade papers to the wrong people. Not a single person is blameless.

With that understanding, you know changes are going to be made. However, we simply cannot blow this up again, so soon after the last blow-up. As crazy as it sounds, we do need some continuity. I believe Sashi was the more expendable of the two, and therefore he was the one to go. It probably helped Haslam push him out the door knowing that Dorsey was looking for work.
Again, it's not fair. Hue did more than enough to get himself fired. The thing I can't quite get past is that he was this great playcaller... and then all of a sudden wasn't when he got here. He was a players' coach and good leader... until he got here and started throwing people under the bus one after another.

I think that Hue being a bad play caller is a reaction and fabrication by posters who are frustrated w/the ineptness of the offense and/or those who were/are pitting Sashi against Hue.

I think all coaches call some questionable plays. A lot of them come in the red zone or w/time being a factor. However, as a former play caller, I find it absurd that so many people can lump coaches as good or bad play callers when they have no clue about so many factors. Those factors include down and distance, the tendencies of a defense to play certain coverages in those different downs and distances, location on the field, time on the clock, score, etc. They don't know how often teams blitz out of those situations and how often they drop 7 and rush 4 or bring a S on a blitz, or run stunts, X's, etc. Shoot, most people don't even know the blocking schemes or the names of the routes.

They know the plays work or don't and they make their "expert" evaluations accordingly.

Bottom line is that if a play is executed fans say it was a brilliant play call. A gutsy play call. If they play isn't executed the coach made a terrible call.

It all come down to execution.

Vers and Pit,

I know others mean a certain thing when they say that Hue is a bad playcaller. What I mean is this. We have Kizer at QB, who was obviously not ready, and we have our very talented offensive line and pretty decent RBs... and we still throw the ball all over the field like we have Tom Brady back there.

Fast forward to the middle/end of the season. We have Kizer at QB, who is throwing redzone and other costly interceptions at an absurd clip, and we have our offensive line and our pretty decent RB (Crow) running the ball at an absurd 4.5 yards/carry clip... and we STILL are throwing the ball all over the field like we have TB back there.


You're probably going to say that that's not "playcalling". Fine, so I called it the wrong name. My point is, I would think at some point, a HC/OC has to sit back and say, "Gee, maybe we should do less of what we do poorly, and more of what we do well".

Bingo! Yahtzee! A-Men! Spot On!

Hue called plays all year long as if he had the talent needed to run those plays. When it became painfully obvious that he did NOT have the talent to run HIS offense...he...didn't change anything.

That's the entire POINT of saying that Hue's play-calling was lacking.

You'll get a lot of likes for that post, but have you ever considered the scores of the games, teams stacking the box, us not wanting to be in 3rd and long w/Kizer at qb.

But whatever, Hue is no longer calling plays. Todd Haley is. I'm sure that won't stop people from piling on Hue. It's what they do.

You can't possibly take onto consideration what D the other team is playing or whether the box is stacked when calling plays Vers. What are you thinking?

Did you consider that we didn't win a single game last year? And won ONE game the year before? And that we are a team with no discernible identity after two years with the same HC? Of course people are going to "pile on".

Hue considered the scores of the games, teams stacking the box, us not wanting to be in 3rd and long with Kizer at qb and made the same decisions over and over again that resulted in virtually no success. He didn't adjust to what he had to work with...that's why peopole keep coming back to talk about it.

Look...if Hue was 2-14 in '16 and then 3-13 in '17...I could get behind an argument that he doesn't have the talent to "Win". Maybe he does not yet have the talent to "Win"...meaning win with some degree of regularity or certainty. But...our talent isn't so bad that we couldn't have reasonably expected to win a game...or even two.

This turd is around Hue's neck. Might as well get used to it until he does something about it.

And the choices Hue decided-upon were...what...better?

Oh my Jim...they've stacked the box...might as well fold up the tents and go home...they figured us out and we are doomed.

Of course they figured it out. It wasn't hard to figure out how putrid the talent on O was. that we were a one demensional offense. That's why you don't fold. You call plays to combat the D.

Now you can continue to rant, whine and cry all you want to. It really won't change anything. But when you refuse to see that you do everything to take advantage of what the D is showing you, those are the right plays to call.

It seems like you feel it would have been much better to loose by running against those stacked boxes. I guess if you have a preference of how we should have lost you have a point.

They may have won a few games had they run the ball in the red zone either TD or at least 3 would have been better than INT in the red zone.

You know score points!

If you are leading or losing you can't catch up throwing INTS.

The talent on the offense isn't putrid. The talent/performance of the QB was putrid. I think those are two very different things.

Was our starting offensive line from L ----> R putrid? No, it was not.
Was our RB combo of Crowell/Johnson putrid? No, it was not.
Was Josh Goron putrid in the games he played? No, he was not?
The TE talent, specifically of Njoku is putrid? No, I don't think so.

I think, personally, it is rather reckless and a very broad generalization to say our entire offensive talent is putrid.

May we lack depth? Sure. Are our WR unknowns AT BEST due to poor QB play? Sure. But the offensive talent is far better than "putrid".

Well if frogs could fly they may not bump their arses on the ground when they land.

So where are we good? WR's? Nope. QB? Nope. RB's? Maybe not terrible. OL? Pretty good.

What this does is make you a one demensional offense.

You see, all across the county, N. England and BB are known for stopping what you do best and force you to use your weakness.

This isn't something new. All any team had to do against the Browns was stack the box and force us to pass.

So you had a choice in how to lose. Force the run against a stacked box and lose. Or pass and lose. I guess we can quibble over which was the best way to lose but the end result would be the same.

People try to second guess things and use their crystal balls to claim they know what would have happened had we run the ball. But they really don't.

And you may want to review Josh Gordons numbers before you trick yourself into believing he's the same WR he was a few years ago.

As cute as your post was, the Packers(?) game comes to mind. Our best drive of the day (and I believe the only one that got us in the endzone?) was all runs. What do we do after that? Well, obviously you only run it 2 more times the rest of the game, right?

I'll repeat something I said in another post last week. If criticizing a HC for a glaringly obvious flaw (even without the benefit of hindsight, mind you) makes me a "hater", then fine... I'm a hater.

You must be head over heels in LOVE!

So did Green Bay change up their D after that drive? You see, that was the entire premise of my point and one you didn't seem to address.

But a bigger question is, at what point is all of this bickering pointless? Hue is returning and will be our HC next year. So are we going to keep hearing this for the next month? Six months? I mean at what point do people just change their diaper and move forward?

I just want someone to provide him a QB and a roster with the chance to win some games. If he can't do it, then down the road with him.

And remember, it was you who said this....

Even you're smart enough to admit you don't know if it really would have made a difference.

See, I don't like this here. Simply because you said "Is" not "Was"

The guy came in mid-season for like the final 5 games (just enough not to accrue).

There's nothing to say that "If" (and that's a huge IF) he his eligible to play next year, he can't look like he did a couple years ago's preseason or when he had his big year with the Safron Slinger (Brandon Weeden).

Josh was thrown into the mix last year in the middle of nowhere. We looked awful. Had a QB that has been badly beaten mentally/probably physically. The potential to be great is still there for Josh.



But I also think that people on here are already making the same mistake that we've made in the past. We need two new WRs this year in FA or the draft. Maybe even three. As far as I'm concerned, anyone not named Corey Coleman and Josh Gordon should probably be cut.

Because you can't count on Josh Gordon, so you have to view him as a number 4 receiver. Nothing more


EDIT: And bring back Terrelle Pryor too for godsakes. We should have traded for him last year and been on the ball giving him a new contract

Can not know if you never try can you. But I do know you can not win throwing INTs in the red zone. That gets you 1-31.

Well... if you choose not to believe the truth, I'm sure you wouldn't be the first one around here.

lol, just answer my question to you. Right below your post.


Give me any evidence that Hue is responsible for getting Sashi fired..............

I am happy to believe the truth if anyone actually knew what happened behind closed doors. But they don't so they act like they do know and really have no clue.

I guess Sashi got fired because he was right about everything and Hue was kept because he was wrong about everything. For everything you think you know, the end result says your math is awful.

Would Hue LIE to save his job?

Please don't make stuff up that I think JG is/could be the same WR as a few years ago. I didn't say that. You said the offensive talent is putrid and I don't agree with that....Specific to Josh, is his talent "putrid"?

Hue's influence?

You just love to make crap up. Climb out of the cave. The sun shines much brighter up here.

Here's a thought/question. (and yes, since it comes from me, I totally expect you to disregard it) The team has stunk for the last 2 years especially. One of the problems with the team is/was constant coach turnover. So, did Sashi get fired because HE stunk? Or did Hue get saved because the owner realized constantly changing coaches is not a way to win games?


Perhaps that is why Hue was taken off the scrap heap?

Here comes the tangent...

I don't think that's why Sashi was fired at all unless you can provide proof of Haslam or someone in the know saying exactly that...

And cutting Haden is like cutting Kosar all over again for some... The once prodigal son let go. What did Joe Haden do the previous 2-3 years here? What did Haden do this year that says he was worth keeping for what was it, 11 million? We were in rebuild mode. Haden hadn't done anything and his replacement...McCourty... yeah, he was playing like one of the best in the league at times! Were we going to the playoffs had we kept Haden? You know, I like Haden, love what he stood for, loved how he played the game, and loved what he did for the community, but I can tell you he hadn't done squat for 2 years. Yes, I'm upset Haden sucked. I wish he was good enough to warrant him to stay. Keeping the guy for the sake of keeping him is just plain silly.

According to PFF, McCourty ranked 21, Boddy-Calhoun ranked 25, Taylor ranked 75 and yes, was a disappointment after being ranked 19 in 2016. Haden ranked 51. Did we really miss him? Our entire defensive unit went from ranking almost dead last to 14th! AND HADEN WASN'T HERE. Did we miss him? Did we really miss him? If you said yes, you're wrong.

Would our WRs be better if we had a better QB? I think that's the question you should ask.

Well I'm certainly not one who thinks Hue isn't without his warts. And actually, it wasn't just coaches where we had constant turnover. When Haslam cleaned house, he did it across the board. Both coaches and FO. So actually when you say he changed coaches often that isn't the entire picture.

I think it was a matter of the QB position more than anything but also other factors as to why Sashi was let go. We have had a QB problem since our return in 1999. Everyone knows it. I believe that after no answer being found in two years and passing on Wentz, Haslam felt he had to find someone to address the problem.

People can argue the trade with McCarron all they wish, but the fact is it was decided the trade should be made and Sashi dropped the ball. It very well may have been pure insubordination. He picked four WR's in the 2016 draft that was a very bad draft class for WR's. That move has never made sense.

In the end I think Haslam is pretty much where I am with all of this. I'm not sold on hue. I'm not sure if he'll be a good NFL HC or not. But I also certainly believe that he hasn't been given the talent on the O side of the ball to succeed.

What I certainly don't believe is that Sashi lost his job because of Hue. I say give Hue a QB and a little help at the WR position where our opponents actually have to respect the pass as well as the run and let's see what he can do.

So right or wrong, I feel that Haslam believes the jury is still out on Hue and until some more pieces of the puzzle come together it's a little to early to make that decision.

From all of the drops I saw this past season I'm not sure it would make that much difference. I know that Kizer was inaccurate, but I based my opinion of the WR's on the balls they should have catched.

Caught. Not catched. Caught. Otherwise, I can agree with what you said.

I don't really agree with your point on Haden. What's 11 million dollars if it makes your defense better? I mean, was our defense better with or without Haden? It's been discussed that we had issues communicating on defense. Matching up, etc.

Haden would have helped.


And yes, the defense did get better. But would we not have been EVEN better with Joe Haden? He was a leader in the locker room too........ Our corners shoudl have been: Taylor, McCourty, Haden, BBC.


All kinds of things could have been better. Had that fat pos Lions Guard not rolled up on Jamie Collins Ankle, things would have been better too. That other guy who stepped in tried hard (52) but he isn't Jamie Collins. That just sucked.

Someone should have punched that Lions Fat pos Guard in the throat. That was a dirty play, and it deserved a dirty play to counter it. He rolled up on Collins' ankle after tackling him, on purpose. Danny Shelton should have done the same thing to his ankle.

Oh, and that D-Lineman pos on the Lions who wouldn't get off Kizer at the end of the first half. Joel Bitonio and Kevin Zeitler should have given him the ole heave-ho to his side of the LOS. Honestly, on that day I was happy that most of Detroit is unemployed and on welfare, that the Canadians were stealing all their money with that gambling casino right across the border, and that Flint had no drinking water (there's a tangent for ya)



Anyway, you never answered my original question. How did Hue get Sashi fired? How.......