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I think Kemba is due for FA Summer of 2019

we are losing by 31.

nevermind, now 34.

Isn't Thompson getting a lot of money to stand under the basket and rebound the ball when we're shooting?

If I'm Dan Gilbert, I'd be docking someone's pay when they're not where they're supposed to be, doing (or trying) to do what they're supposed to do.

Might as well trade for Lance Stephenson, just to make things more fun to watch around here lol

No amount of players will fix the clown we have at coach.

Maybe, we did win a ring with this coach on the bench, shoulda found a way to keep Kyrie.

Love getting hurt doesn't help either. That is a huge loss.

Won with Blatts system, the next year is when Lue started doing his thing, gotten worse every year on defense

Makes no sense to me why someone would want to change what works like that.

I only saw the lo-lites of the game this morning but Lebron certainly looked like someone who’s checked out all ready.

Chauncy Billups and Jalen Rose were saying that they think the team has checked-out on LeBron.

Checked out seems to be the operative phrase here. Whoever it may be.

As it turns out, we should have kept Kyrie, even though he wanted out. Our team just ain't the same without him.

Kyrie was apparently threatening to have a season ending knee surgery if we didn't trade him.

I can't watch the Cavs anymore. They are just horrid right now

I feel the same way. It's a swan song of sorts, me thinks. I turned it off yesterday and watched something else/went to bed.

Luck was with you! My son bought me tickets to the Spurs game Feb 25th as a Christmas gift. This could be as ugly as last night's game. At least I'll get to see the legends Pops, Parker and Ginobli live. Not sure what's going on with Leonard.

+1

He would have had surgery or simply sat out.

This team had an amazing 3-year run. This was bound the happen.

As I’ve said before, I’d be looking to sell everything off at this point, even Lebron. With him, I’d want to send him somewhere he might win a ring this season, not because I’m ticked at him.

Time to blow up the Cavaliers after 120-88 loss to Houston Rockets?

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/...art_river_index

Updated 12:49 AM; Posted Feb 3, 10:44 PM

By Joe Vardon, Cleveland.com jvardon@cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert sat in his usual baseline seat near his team's basket for much of the first half of this latest debacle.

He was gone before the halftime buzzer sounded, before the Houston Rockets' lead was up to 26, and before the Cavs were soundly booed off the floor.

Gilbert never returned to his chair in the Rockets' 120-88 win Saturday. Would you?

Cavs fans can only hope he spent the rest of the game plotting how to blow this team up by Thursday's trade deadline, making one last effort to save the franchise from an early playoff exit and rebuilding oblivion.

Gilbert's trade assets may be limited -- save for the Nets' No. 1 pick. But since last season, Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Blake Griffin, Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony have all been traded. None of them to the Cavs.

Cleveland simply is noncompetitive against the NBA's elite. It's not supposed to be that way for a team that's gone to three straight Finals and has LeBron James. But it is.

Cleveland has lost eight straight on national TV since Christmas, and has lost by at least 24 points now four times since Jan. 1. This isn't a network problem. It's an opponent problem. The Cavs are finding themselves on the wrong side of inferior too often.

Cleveland trailed by as many as 35 on Saturday, and this wasn't even the most lopsided loss this season. Houston tied a record for a Cavs opponent with 19 3-pointers (in 51 attempts!).

At halftime, coach Tyronn Lue told ESPN/ABC's Lisa Salters his Cavs were "soft, weak, no physicality, no toughness, no grit."

The details of this one don't really matter. The Cavs are facing an existential crisis.

The trade of Kyrie Irving to Boston for Isaiah Thomas and Jae Crowder has been a disaster. Thomas, who was 5-of-13 shooting Saturday for 12 points, is nowhere near the player he was before hip injuries knocked him out of last year's Eastern Conference finals against the Cavs.

He can't shoot and score like he used to. This team does not have the defensive-minded players to make up for his deficiencies on that side of the court.

"Another embarrassing loss. Something gotta change," Thomas said.

But this mess is by no means Thomas' fault. He didn't ask to come here, and as he's pointed out, the Cavs were pretty bad defensively before he played his first game on Jan. 2.

James has always been the tide that lifts all boats. He hasn't lifted much of anything lately. James posted 11 points, nine rebounds and nine assists in 31 minutes Saturday, shooting 3-of-10. It's the second time this season James has scored fewer than 12 points in a game.

James averaged 23.5 points in January and the Cavs were outscored by an average of 7.1 points while he was on the court.

"I'm lost for words, actually," James said. "Going 0-8 on national television. They should take us off every nationally televised game for the rest of the season. We haven't played good ball and we get our butts kicked every time we play on national television, so I'm at a loss for words."

The big picture here is if the Cavs prove to not be a championship contender, if they fail to reach the Finals with no real signs of getting back there next year, James will probably leave again in free agency.

Then again, Gilbert is already spending $177 million on this team now, James is here, and the team is nowhere close. Yes, the Cavs still sit in third place in the East, but that's thanks solely to a stretch in November when they won 18 of 19 while playing the league's second-easiest schedule.

Since Christmas, this team is 6-12. Kevin Love is out for two months. The body language is bad and the tension in the locker room is worse. The roster pieces don't fit. Lue started the second quarter with Thomas, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, Kyle Korver and Jeff Green on the court.

That's three point guards, one shooter, and 31/2 poor on-ball defenders.

Does Gilbert try to salvage the season, trade the Brooklyn pick for real value, and shake up a stale locker room for one last run with James? Or hope his front office finds the team's future in the June draft, and pray a premium free agent chooses the harsh Cleveland winters over somewhere warmer?

General manager Koby Altman attended the Duke-St. John's game earlier Saturday before coming home for the Cavs and Rockets, if that tells you anything.

"I just think mindset needs to change," Lue said, referring to the players here now. "I think we need to do things harder."

The Rockets, winners of four straight and eight of nine, were led by Paul with 22 points. He piled up 11 assists and passed former Cavalier Andre Miller (8,524 assists) for ninth place all time in assists.

Paul didn't play in the Rockets' 117-113 win over the Cavs on Nov. 9. Neither did Thomas.

James Harden added 16 points and nine assists. Houston had six players score in double figures.

J.R. Smith scored 12 points for the Cavs but shot 4-of-12. Wade contributed 10 points off the bench and passed Gary Payton (21,813 points) for 31st on the all-time scoring list.

NEXT: The Cavaliers play at the Orlando Magic at 7 p.m. Tuesday.

I’ve said for several weeks now that there’s not enough trade that will make us contenders, we should be sellers at this point and blow it up and rebuild something sustainable. This is lebrons fault. Being to involved in FO affairs and not letting team know his intentions makes it impossible to do anything

Nobody really wants to say it ,but it starts, and end in one place, and one place only, and that is squarely on the shoulders of Lebron.

I have a feeling that come playoff that Lebron will play hero and turn it on, but this has been Brons M.O. his whole career. When things arent right, he checks out . He did it here, before he left, and he did it in Miami, and it is the reason he is 3 and 5 in the Finals.

I don't necessarily agree with you about Lebron being 3-5 in the finals because he checked out of series'/games. I think two of his finals losses are on him not playing good enough, and it's the two he lost in Miami.

I can't really knock him for the Spurs in 2007 or either of the GSW losses. The other teams were just flat out better, and that first GSW series he lost the next two best guys on his team (not to mention he played like a GD maniac in that series)

I do agree that a lot of these current struggles are on him. He's the leader, and the those guys follow him.

I love that people are going after Ty Lue, as if he has any control over this situation. There are way too many egos in that locker room. It's on the players. They aren't playing to their potential. They don't play defense, the rely too much on outside shooting.

The last few years the have just turned it on towards the end of the year, and it's worked. The gap between the Cavs and the rest of the east isn't much of a gap now. They're not going 12-1 or 12-2 to the final this year. They're vulnerable and could get knocked out. With all that said, as bad as they have been, they are only 5 losses behind the top record in the conference, which is kind laughable.

I find it funny that the media is going after Dan Gilbert for basically not moving that pick or even entertaining it. I don't think they will. I think he realizes Lebron is leaving, and without any kind of long term commitment, why should he? I love Lebron, but I'm a Cavs fan first, and I don't want that pick dealt for anything outside of bringing back an amazing player. There really isn't a deal out there that you can flip this pick for that somehow puts you on the level of the Warriors, it's not happening.

I am convinced Lebron is leaving, and that's totally cool with me. He came back and made good on his promise. His legacy in Cleveland is sealed. If he wants to chase the ghost of Jordan, he's going to have to do it somewhere else, because they won't be able to build a team good enough to beat the Warriors in Cleveland. No hard feelings this time around.

I wish him well, but I want that pick. We can start our rebuild right away, and give Ty Lue an actual chance to coach. He doesn't have the cache to coach those types of egos. Give him some young guys who have something to prove? Much different story.

But yeah, Lebron and the rest of these guys not getting back on defense, or not closing out the 3 point line is somehow coaching. Get bent.

I'm actually excited at the prospect of being able to rebuild. I would love it if Lebron stayed and we kept going to the finals, but I don't see a reason why he would, and I think if he had plans to, he would be smart enough this time to make that clear so that they can attract players.

I agree with your whole post, and I was just using his Finals losses as examples, but he has checked out, or quit if you will in other series, and situations. The Boston series comes to mind.

I was talking to a friend of mine who is an asst coach at a Big Ten program, and he kind of reminded me of something we used to say about some plyers that we were game prepping for. Guys who were extremely talented players but we knew if we put pressure on them they would fold. Coach Dre would always say " he doesnt have that dog in him"

Yeah, there's no doubt he has checked out of games. The infamous Boston game 5 will always come to mind. That entire series was bizarre. People often forget the Cavs handed the Celtics their worst home playoff loss in team history in game 3. Then of course, he almost got the quadruple double in game 6, he was one turnover away from it.

The game 5 is the one people will always point to. 3/14 FG, 14 points, and even more than that, his body language that night was unlike anything I've ever seen out of him.

I don't know how many other playoff games he's really checked out of. Didn't see all of them in Miami, but he just stunk in that San Antonio series (right before he came home)

I mean, that is kind of a trend with him. Played horrible in 2010 before FA, again in 2014 before FA, and now once again, he's facing FA, and facing a pivotal point in his career this summer, and he's on a struggling team that looks like it may limp into the playoffs as a middle seed.

Normally guys play great in contract years, for obvious reasons. Lebron doesn't have that motivation, because he's getting paid anyway, but I couldn't imagine the pressure that goes into making a decision, where you know you are changing the fortunes and outcomes of so many OTHER people.

I gotta admit... I'm becoming more open to a LBJ-less Cav's team and reshaping and rebuilding the roster. We could have a ton of no-names and still be likely the same shape, same bad team as we our with our overpaid players.

IT coming back, I mean I figured it would take time for a star like that but I'm still not feeling it.

Maybe we just all checked out and waiting for the playoffs? IDK...

Woj was on Zach Lowe's podcast today, 2/5/18, and he said there are actual real problems with the Cavs this year. It sounded like most of the problems start with Dan Gilbert and LeBron. They also talked about how Kyrie Irving saw the writing on the wall and that's why he wanted out. He basically knew the poo was going to hit the fan.

The problem is lebron, He wants ownership to go to extreme measures to put a winning team around him, yet won't commit to anything so they can do that sensibly. This is why to me Lebron will always be second to Jordan, Jordan never put the FO in a position like this. He didn't feel the need to go somewhere else. You can still make max money and allow the team to put players around you that can play..not these old has beens and never will be's because they are your BFF's or represented by your guys. Lebron is more responsible for this being a dumpster fire more than anyone. We won a ring so there's always that, but anyone with a set of eyes knew it wasn't going to be sustainable like what GS has and what Boston is now building

I think that Lebron refusing to commit long term has made it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to add upper level players. Top players don't want to come here and be "stuck" if he bolts.

Yep. That's what doomed his original stint here.

This is why it's difficult to like Lebron at times. Yes, he came back and against all odds, won a Championship for the city.

But then he has to try to wash all that goodwill by holding the team to the fire and doing nothing in return. So we end up handing out bad contracts to all his buddies, deplete all our draft capital, and trade away all our best young players that could of been stars post-Lebron. Then Lebron bolts and leaves us with nothing. It's hard to play the "I had to go because the team couldn't win anymore" card when you're the one directly responsible for the team's state in the first place.

It's like a guy staying at a nice campground. He brings in a bunch of RV's and friends, trashes the place, spray paints some nearby rocks, starts some small wildfires and scares off the local wildlife. Then leaves the next weekend because it doesn't feel like "nature" anymore.

Yes, thanks for the Championship Lebron, but it feels kind of hard to want the team to retire your jersey or give you a statue when you've left the team in shambles twice now. If you stay and do the honorable thing, then it's a different story.

I agree w/the last few takes about LeBron not committing to the Cavs.

The only thing I will say to be contrary [create further debate/discussion] is that the Cavs are done when LeBron leaves. We can talk about building through the draft and making this move and that move, but this is the NBA and Cleveland is not going to attract the top free agents needed to compete for a championship. And the young guys they do draft will bolt as soon as they can because they won't want to stay in Cleveland when the team is a lottery team each year.

It really sucks all the way around. Having LeBron is akin to making a deal w/the devil. You are in a bad place no matter what happens.

At this point--and I am not sure if this will even be enough--I would prefer we make a huge blockbuster trade to make one last run at the championship. I say that because I believe this team is going to be one of the worst teams in the NBA for decades.

I realize the odds of us making that trade[s] is/are slim and none and it still might not be enough to overcome the toxicity of the situation right now, so I might have to be content that it was fun while it lasted.

j/c:


http://amicohoops.net/cavs-offered-smith-thompson-own-pick-for-jordan/

no way I do that trade unless we are getting something other than DJ, like Williams. DJ is gone after this year and he doesn't make us that much better, getting rid of TT and smith would be great, but I think we are bidding against ourselves at this point

I think that they desperately want out of the Thompson and JR deals. If he can move both, he definitely earns his paycheck.

Jordan would immediately improve our interior defense.

This would be a great trade for us and clear out some of the log jam that is our 2 guard rotation.

The problem is we don't have a 2 guard..lol, thats why i'd want to get williams back as well.

I don't think we'd be able to get Lou without adding something else significant on our end. And outside the Brooklyn pick, I don't think we have.

Windy was on WKNR today and said as much as well. He said LeBron and Dan Gilbert do not trust each other right now. Windy stated it's one of the reason Dan will not trade the Brooklyn pick at this time. He doesn't want to be burned by LeBron leaving again and not have that pick.

I lean toward not trading that Brooklyn pick. I don't think there is a trade that can reasonably be made that would give them a reasonable shot at beating the Warriors.

That is a terrible offer for Deandre Jordan and one I think there is a 0% chance the Clippers would accept. They are trying to clear cap space, adding Smith and Thompson's horrible deals does not align with that thinking. Getting the Cavs first round pick does not make up for having to take on two horrible contracts (for guys who aren't even league average players at this point).

My guess is that the Clippers hold on to him, try to stay competitive for the rest of the season, and then let him go sign for about $20 million a year somewhere else.

There never was a trade that gave them a chance either (Boogie was never going to be available). The Cavs best bet is to stand pat and hope LeBron turns it on in the playoffs.

It's very, very believable. I think Gilbert and LBJ is a toxic relationship, however... I think with the way he conducts himself, LBJ would be toxic for most if not all teams trying to handle and moderate the entire situation and etc.

Like others have said many times, the players that could likely substantially help us don't want to be "stuck" here if/when LBJ leaves again, and him leaving AGAIN seems more a reality than anything anymore.

Like Vers said, we might "all" just have to be content while the fun and etc lasted.