DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dorsey and our future.

Thanks Jester. I knew I was right but didn't want to sound arrogant.

I'm pretty sure they both did it. But RAC was DA and Quinn or DA and Frye, I forget.

Not to be argumentative, but I believe Jester and 19 are right that Butch's moment was when he said he had a "gut feeling." I do not believe he flipped a coin.

Actually, I kinda doubt RAC flipped a coin. I think he just said that and people jumped his ass to make him look like a fool.

It was Romeo, deciding between Brady and Derek. Saying he flipped a coin. In the pre-season.
They both sucked, or he would not have had to coin-flip.

Exactly, and a more recent example is Hue saying 'trust me'. The media won't let it go, even if it was just a post-draft throwaway line about a 3rd round pick.

I don't think that's really similar or a good example with the other cases. Those were deciding on who would be our starting quarterback, the Kessler comments were not.

True, but the coin flip - if it even happened - was before a pre-season game. No biggie either way, just sayin'.

I feel like we've had a quarterback controversy almost every year. The best thing we did was trade Frye after the second week to eliminate any kind of controversy. DA was our guy.

Another tangent, but I think had we stuck with DA for a while until we actually found our QB, we would have been fine. He wouldn't be my first choice but I think he could have been a decent guy for us for a short while. We eliminated the wrong half of the controversy .

We had Quinn on the roster in 2007.

I guess Dorsey will play rock, paper scissors..

I'm 100% sure it was RAC Peen.

Browns to flip coin to decide starting QB

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8015a5b6/article/browns-to-flip-coin-to-decide-starting-qb

Yup. He was drafted that year.

I agree to a great extent. But it's the coaches job to select and name a starting QB. Flipping a coin is nothing more than a way to avoid doing your job. It's a joke and no matter how little difference there is between two QB's, that doesn't excuse you from your responsibilities.

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/962342801630375941

I mentioned this before, and got roundly poo-poo'ed for the suggestion, but I suspect that where the team is now was the Sashi's plan all along.

During the 2015 season, the second under Pettine/Farmer, the team was in a terrible state. There was friction and disfunction between the coaches and FO, and the team was made up of a mish-mash of players without an overarching vision or build.

I imagine that Jimmy and Sashi had conversations, what can we do to turn this franchise around, make it competitive. (I have no proof of this, but it makes sense to me that Jimmy was looking for ideas on how to fix his team, and Sashi had one.) What they needed was a good GM, but recent history had shown that no talented and established candidates would be interested with the team in the condition it was.

Again, my opinion, they developed a plan to, rather than try to sell the team as it was to a prospective GM, not hire one, strip the team down, and build a new foundation of young players, while at the same time build a war chest of draft picks and salary space to make the GM job much more attractive.

Sashi's role in this plan was, from the beginning, to be the fall guy. He was the guy who would take the blame for 'not building a winner' but instead delivering a GM's dream to the best available GM candidates; a team with a young foundation in place and all the resources necessary to quickly acquire the key pieces the new GM would need to build a winner.

If that was really the plan, Sashi would have been promoted to team President when Dorsey was brought on board.

I do think it was the plan. The problem was the plan was not to go winless this past season. No doubt we lacked talent, but the plan didn't plan on the coach not being able to coach us to 3-4 wins. We probably planned on using a few picks to move up to get the QB.

Then the tension between Hue and Sashi formed leaving Haslam in the position of having to release one of them. No doubt cutting the coach has more impact on continuity then does cutting the GM or whatever title Sashi held.

Sashi's downfall was not selecting a QB last year. Haslam saw guys like Wentz doing well, and we had Kizer as a 2nd round guy who wasn't looking very good.

Hopefully we make some positive moves selecting players, and hopefully Hue is able to be the head coach this team needs.

I agree mostly with this. I don't think Sashi was here to get fired in 2 years. I think his plan was spoiled by the team going 0-16. If we had won 4-5 games he'd still be here. Head coach is more important for continuity.

As for QB last year, I wouldn't be surprised if Trubisky and Mahomes were our top two and after drafting Garrett, we missed out on those two QBs. Hue was obviously not a Watson fan and that left us with Kizer, who incidentally was mocked to the Browns way back in November as #1.

Where Hue screwed up the QB position the last few years, Dorsey won't let him. The Haley signing was significant whether Hue wants to downplay that or not. All of this is why I have confident in the Browns moving forward.

We all have our opinions on what the team should do in the draft or who is the best QB. However, I'm sure most if not all of us will root for the team regardless of what we do or who we sign.

Sashi got fired. Hue is still here.

The likes of Bill Parcels and Ron Wolf were brought in to consult on the situation. Guys like Peyton Manning and Mike Singletary may have been talked to, as well. Joe Thomas has been very forthcoming about the situation.

Sashi was not wronged. He was the problem.

You guys trying to rewrite history won't change that and his current employment status confirms it. The guy [for all his supposed greatness according to a half-dozen or so posters on this message board] will never again have a position similar to the one he just got fired for. He had no business getting the job in the first place. He made some horrid roster decisions. We are better off w/out him because our FO is better and we will now see if Hue can coach or not.

And you and your little group can go off on me now, but I'll check out of this conversation that some of you refuse to let die.

His current employment status confirms nothing. People "go off on you" for your outlandish claims such as this.

This is the basis of your point. Right or wrong.



Then you acknowledge this. That makes your entire point above rather meaningless. You are implicating Haslam...not Sashi.



We are better off because our FO has more football experience guys. Sashi got us here - the good and the bad. I'd prefer we had all these new football guys AND Sashi in as the lawyer and cap guy.



He can coach alright...but can he win? He's demonstrated that - so far - he cannot win in Cleveland. Hue is out of excuses.

I don't care who officially drafted them, Hue had a major say on who was in the quarterback room here. Dorsey here hopefully means Hue has been silenced.

It's great if you wish to hold that opinion yet there's no way to confirm that opinion. If you actually think Hue wanted to go into last season with a QB room with no veteran and no QB that had ever won an NFL game we simply disagree.

No, they've decided that Hue actually had zero say in who the Browns would select at quarterback - in spite of everything suggesting he had control - and have also decided that Jackson absolutely loved Wentz and Watson - in spite of Jackson's own best friend, and journalist, reporting that wasn't the case - because it best fits the narrative.

I agree 100%. Things don't look good for Sashi Brown at QB, but Jackson was involved in that discussion too, and I'm hopeful that Dorsey will be a major factor in the Browns getting it right this time.

Just like with Dorsey, the final decision was Sahsi's. The final decision will now be that of Dorsey.

And we've discussed final say... it's overblown by some. The draft picks were a collaborative effort of everyone, not just Sashi (who also happened to not be the talent evaluator in the building).

you and memph lol

Paul DePodesta Chief Strategy Officer his plan

not shashi with draft or talent evoul....

no wonder the guy got fired.. he did nothing lmao

Actually I think you may find the scouting department did the talent evaluations. It certainly wasn't the HC.

Play him, bench him, start the third string, start the... whoever. Hue also played a major role in screwing up the qbs, regardless of the talent at hand. Unless Sashi told him who to start, pull and restart and etc - then you should be upset how Hue handled it.

It certainly wasn't Sashi.

We need Free Agency to start so you folks have something new to beat to death ! lol

The bottom line is Sashi didn’t do his job well enough, Hue didn’t do his job well enough, the players didn’t make enough plays. Everybody’s right. Sashi was fired over it, and maybe Hue should have been too, but I’m not one to ask that question to cause I didn’t like Hue from the first time I heard we were interviewing him, but Hue is still here as are the players, for now. The players need to improve as does Hue. We’ll see what happens.

I am not going to go off on you. I don't totally disagree. I think we are better off in the FO now then we were then.

Our only disagreement is on the coach. I think we should have won some games last year. I am sorry, I simply can't line up behind a coach with a 1-31 record.

I just can't do it.

Moi aussi. There were however, multiple issues, not just Hue...

No doubt. That is why I don't totally disagree with Vers. Those issues have been dealt with...at least I assume Dorsey is a upgrade and will bring in a few decent free agents and draft some impact players. That just leaves Hue as the other half of the crew that won 1 game over the last two seasons.

We have a front office with experience at picking players. We hired a offensive coordinator who has had unquestioned success over his career. We have a owner willing to spend money.

It all points up. That is why I am going to renew my season tickets. I expect to see a drastic turnaround. I mean maybe to the tune of 9 wins and a shot at a wildcard. Maybe even our division. It isn't all that strong at this point.

What we can't have is a 3-4-5 win season. That's not going to cut it. Things are in place for Hue to show what he has shown before and go out and win games.

I think a lot of the disagreement regarding Hue is more about semantics than it is about substance. I think it's more about the time frame than it is arguing his abilities. At least that's where it is for me. Hue has certainly made some mistakes. I certainly don't feel like writing him a blank check on the timeline.

While none of us have any power over the situation, in my mind Hue had three years when he was hired. The same went for Sashi and the FO. But as I said, we don't have any power over that. I fully understand why Sashi was fired and would also have understood had Hue been fired. I get it. However, you simply won't solve your issues by firing everyone every two years.

I can't speak for everyone else who supports Hue staying on as our HC. But I can speak for myself. My feelings on the subject is that he's on a one year show me deal. Show me you've learned from your mistakes. Show me you're improving as a HC.

I'm not going to put a number on wins like you have done but let me say that I do understand why you would. For me? I'm going to have to wait and see what talent is brought in to help the roster. What we do in the FA market. What we do in the draft. What the QB room looks like going into the season. All of those things will factor into what my expectations are for the 2018 season.

But actually for all the rift going on when it comes to Hue, I don't believe there's nearly as much separation on the subject as some make it out to be.

For me it was never about the losing, it was how we lost. People can rag on me and my opinion all they want (and I know some will), but kicking off in OT, poor use of timeouts.... Those things add up and cost teams games. And I know there will be those who will defend every move Hue made because he was just trying to win A GAME.

I know you are adamant about having a "stud" HC. And I know you've posted you think Hue is a stud HC. I don't necessarily think he's a stud HC. A good coordinator doesn't always make a good HC. Take Mike Smith with the Falcons for example... we would have never been 7-4 in 2014 if Smith hadn't been a terrible game manager. We lose that game to better time management. Should have lost 24-23 with almost no time on the clock... instead we win and never should have had a chance. These are things I feel is imperative HC's realize and Mike smith obviously wasn't very good at this and I don't think Hue is either.

You're going to get the guy who will laugh and say it was the defenses fault... meh. I don't care how good your defense is, you always assume the other team is going to score. 45 seconds is a lifetime in the NFL. Because of stuff like this, I think Hue has cost us wins.

Maybe Hue will be able to focus more on the game with the hiring of Haley. I'm hopeful that Hue is learning... but... If the Browns go 10-6 there's going to be those who will say, see, I told you so, keeping Hue was the right move... But if we go 10-6 and we could have won 2-3 more games but didn't because we kicked off in OT or lost in the final minutes because of ill-advised timeouts then I'll be on the side with people who will blame Hue for not being 13-3.

Sorry about the long reply for a simple point, but hopefully that makes sense...

I know some are going to be happy if we start winning. But I don't just want to win, I want to be the best.