DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum More AJ...

Cleveland Browns: Team may look to add McCarron and Darnold

by Randy Gurzi 2 hours ago Follow @rgurzi81

With a big need at quarterback for the Cleveland Browns, one media member is suggesting they could add a veteran and a rookie with the No. 1 draft pick

A lot of the offseason discussion for the Cleveland Browns has centered around what they will do under center. Their lack of a quality starting quarterback has been a huge reason for their 1-31 record over the past two seasons.

If they ever hope to become a serious competitor again, they need to fix that position before anything else. The speculation has gone crazy since the Browns have multiple options.

They have more cap space than anyone, which allows them to offer free agents whatever they want in terms of salary. Cleveland also has the No. 1 overall pick in the 2018 NFL Draft, so they could take the best prospect as well.

One media member thinks they will do both.

Benjamin Albright, a co-host on AM1340 and 104.7 FM in Denver tweeted out that Cleveland could plan to sign free agent A.J. McCarron and use the top pick on Sam Darnold out of USC.

McCarron just recently won a grievance which allowed him to be an unrestricted free agent. The dots were immediately connected between him and the Browns. McCarron played under head coach Hue Jackson, while he was the offensive coordinator with the Cincinnati Bengals.

Then there was the failed trade. The Bengals and Browns agreed to a deal that would have brought McCarron to Cleveland at the 2017 trade deadline, but a paperwork mistake nixed that deal. Now they could find a way to bring Jackson a player he obviously trusts, while saving their draft picks.

In this situation the hope would be that McCarron would serve as a bridge quarterback while Darnold learns the ropes. Darnold has immense talent, but is still raw as he had just two years as a starter for the Trojans.

This move wouldn’t be unprecedented. The Chicago Bears signed Mike Glennon in the 2017 offseason and then traded up in the draft for Mitchell Trubisky, who had just one season as a starter for North Carolina.

Link

I'd be down with that.

So one media member thinks they'll do exactly what most members of this board thinks they'll do. Sign a bridge QB and draft a QB at #1.

It sounds like he's a little behind the curve on that one. lol

More perspective on the previous take...

Cleveland Browns: A Hint About Their Likely QB Plans

by Erik Lambert 12 hours agoFollow @ErikLambert1

For the second-straight year, it looks like the NFL off-season will run through the Cleveland Browns. They have the #1 pick and loads of spending money.

Last year it didn’t go as planned. Despite making a number of notable moves, none of them panned out as hoped. The team finished 0-16, just the second franchise to ever accomplish that feat. One of the biggest reasons for this? They continued to dance around the quarterback issue. Instead of using one of their 1st round picks in 2017 on someone like Deshaun Watson, Mitch Trubisky or Patrick Mahomes they instead waited until the 2nd to take DeShone Kizer.

They were quickly reminded why he fell in the first place and are now right back where they started. Only this time a new GM is in charge. The good news is John Dorsey is no Sashi Brown. He’s far more qualified to hold the job. Yet the question remains. What does he have planned for the quarterback position? He could stick it out with Kizer and see what happens when he drastically improves the surrounding personnel.

Or he could try free agency. The crop of QBs expected to be available will be richer than normal with names like Kirk Cousins, Teddy Bridgewater and Case Keenum leading the way. However, NFL insider Benjamin Allbright believes they have a different plan in mind.

One-two punch of McCarron and Darnold could be smart thinking, Now, this is something worth sinking the teeth into. There’s plenty of logic to it. A.J. McCarron has starting NFL experience and a deep connection to Browns head coach Hue Jackson. He was almost traded to Cleveland last year before the deal was blundered by both sides at the deadline. McCarron showed promise in his brief stint as a starter late in the 2015 season, helping the Bengals reach the playoffs. He would’ve gotten them a win over Pittsburgh too if Jeremy Hill and the defense didn’t ruin it at the end.

Most still view him as nothing more than a glorified game manager, but it’s clear he understands how to win. If nothing else he could make for the perfect bridge quarterback until a young draft pick has had time to acclimate. That’s where Sam Darnold comes in. The USC star showed all sorts of promise in his two years starting there. He’s got size, athleticism, a big arm, accuracy and executes at his best in big games. The problem is he has a lot of mechanical flaws and still suffers from poor decision-making.

Having a professional like McCarron in front of him could do him some good and gives the Browns flexibility at a position that has tormented them for years.

Link

It's more about the specifics of who they'll draft, as related from a "source".

I'm of two minds on McCarron. My first thought is I don't know if he's any good. My second, more positive thought is Katherine Webb would be at First Energy Stadium all season.

McCarron gets somewhat of a bad rap, IMO, in that (as you say), we don't know if he's any good. That is often skewed as "He isn't any good". He's had limited success when he's had the chance to play, and he was clearly a winner in college with an excellent completion percentage and an outstanding TD to INT ratio. For me, he is a very good option to hold the reigns while a #1 pick gets acclimated, and I believe he would be a good pro in the QB room. (JMHO)

Here's Walter Footballs scouting report to refresh memories:

Strengths:

Limits mistakes
Makes good decisions
Quality game-manager
Field vision
Ball security
Distributes the ball to a variety of weapons
Good on touch passes
Basis for good footwork
Accurate
Improved throughout college
Intelligent
Hard worker
3-year starter
Leader
Good teammate
Experienced and successful against elite college programs

Weaknesses:

Lacks arm strength
Not a good fit for a vertical offense
Doesn't throw into tight windows
Needs to improve anticipation
Can get rattled by pass rush
Little mobility
Not a running threat
Not a play-maker

Summary: McCarron was a steady presence in the Alabama offense over the past three seasons and helped guide the Crimson Tide to two national championships. With a great defense and running game, Alabama didn't have McCarron throw the ball that often, and when he did he had a lot of wide-open receivers, but the Crimson Tide didn't need McCarron to be a play-maker in order to win. McCarron was a good game-manager and was more capable than John Parker Wilson or Greg McElroy.

McCarron won the starting quarterback job as a sophomore after McElroy moved on to the NFL. McCarron had the luxury of a tremendous running game and defense to carry Alabama to a National Championship in 2011. He completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,634 yards with 16 touchdowns and five interceptions for the year.

Alabama repeated as National Champions the next season. Once again, McCarron had the support of a great running game, and one of the best offensive lines in college football history. The junior completed 67 percent of his passes for 2,933 yards with 30 touchdowns and three interceptions. He had great opportunities to throw the ball with defenses focused on stopping the Crimson Tide's rushing attack.

McCarron generally played well in 2013 even though his supporting cast wasn't as good as the previous two seasons. The senior completed 67 percent of his passes for 3,063 yards with 28 touchdowns and seven interceptions. His performances versus Virginia Tech and Ole Miss in 2013 were underwhelming.

On the flip side, he played extremely well against Texas A&M to win a shootout at Kyle Field. To end his collegiate career, McCarron struggled against Oklahoma. He was rattled by the Sooners' pass-rushers and had three turnovers. It illustrated the concern that McCarron's superb supporting cast was masking some weaknesses in his game during the past three years. McCarron rarely ever saw a steady pass rush as his tremendous offensive line constantly kept clean pockets for him.

McCarron doesn't have a very strong arm for the NFL level and doesn't fit a lot of throws into tight windows. His anticipation could be better as well. It is clear that Alabama coached McCarron to be a good game-manager and not turn the ball over. He was very good at avoiding interceptions, but he often had wide-open receivers; a luxury that won't be available in the NFL. McCarron was a reliable game-manager, but he isn't a play-maker who can produce points on his own ability to beat a defense.

McCarron doesn't have an above-average arm or mobility. For the pros, he looks like a solid backup who could function well as a game-manager for a team that is based around a tough defense and running game. McCarron could help a team win in that situation and has the potential to be a quarterback similar to Trent Dilfer with the 2000 Ravens.

That being said, some teams view McCarron more favorably. WalterFootball.com knows one quarterback-needy team picking in the top 10 that has McCarron rated ahead of Teddy Bridgewater. McCarron looks like a second-day pick for the 2014 NFL Draft.

Link

Yeah but it's February. When talking specifics everyone is throwing darts.

Of course. But we eat it up because we find it interesting.

Bob Wylie is a good source too. He leaks everything to the media that Hue tells him to leak.

That sounds like Cody Kessler's scouting report to me. Why should we pay $16 mil a year to an older version of a QB that we already have on the team?

Because he's taller?

won more games than any qb on the roster?

And he won those games on our roster?

A.J. McCarron also supposedly threw teammates under the bus pre-draft.

Link?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/10932201/aj-mccarron-cincinnati-bengals-hurt-pre-draft-reports

Why do you make stuff up all the time? There is no link for that. You aren't in the room. You are not privy to Hue's conversations.

LOL.........that doesn't prove your claim. You just made it up.

Man, this board is bad!

Bill Parcells and Mike Singletary advised me of this.

"He was critical of other people," Schefter also said.

wonder who?

This is the guy Hue wanted and thought we could win some games on board.


Let's see.

Actually, I like AJ...I don't think QB play was the biggest problem last year. I think it was coaching on the offensive side of the ball.

Maybe we have that fixed with Haley on board.

I didn't see where he threw anyone under the bus, just that he was critical of others. Could've been anyone, other QBs in the draft, coaches, or whoever. Being critical isn't a character flaw, IMO, unless you're being judged by millennials.

I'l bet you Dorsey thinks the QB position was the problem. Just watch how he handles the position to see.

I didn't say it wasn't a problem. I said it wasn't the biggest problem. Got to read my words my friend.



Right now Dorsey can't do much about Hue. There is no way to prove one way of the other, but I'd bet you a big breakfast with a slab of country ham that if Doresy had his choice at this point, Hue wouldn't be his choice.


Again, that's just my opinion. I don't mean to offend anyone with my comments.

Yes, it was & Hue could be absolutely be right considering what we had last year.

Side note: Hue wanted to give up a 2nd and 3rd even with the restricted/unrestricted situation uncertain. Which, seeing what transpired a couple of days ago, could have ended up being a huge mistake. (For ddubia, Pit, Vers, et al.- this doesn't mean I want Hue fired, just that he clearly shouldn't have been involved with asset trading)

I agree with you, among the bridge QBs, I don't necessarily think McCarron would be a bad short-term answer. However, I'm guessing McCarron wants a real chance to start I'm not sure that equates to Cleveland when we have the #1 pick most likely taking a QB and a coach already on the hot seat.

could have swore AJ was his second choice....

jc

i said it before, and ill say it again. yall sleeping on AJ.

dude has the tools to be good. he stepped into a crappy situation with Dalton going down and performed very well in a playoff game.

imagine what he can pull off going into training camp and the season as a starter.

And AJ is other people's third, fourth, fifth, or sixth choice. What's your point? I think the Browns wanted JG, if that's what you're getting at. There was no shot at getting him. I think that has been illustrated several times.

well when i read comments like "drool over AJ" i think its a good thing to remind people it wasnt even hues first choice... let the BBQ go on lmao

The pre-game pageantry with the Bengals after the trade deadline could argue differently.

[img]https://twitter.com/nflonfox/status/934833803767439362[/img]

Again, I don't think AJ is necessarily a bad acquisition, if the money is right and it's not for a 2nd/3rd.

you mean when hue and haslem went over to apologize for the trade screw up? i though it was nice of them

I'll try and bring it back on topic, Cal.



The weaknesses are what concern me about McCarron. Lack of arm strength, doesn't throw into tight windows, not much mobility, can get rattled by pass rush.

Those are tough things to overcome.

I get why some people want us to sign him and they make a pretty good argument, but I have never been a big fan of McCarron.

I won't go as far as to say he sucks, but he has some serious concerns/limitations and I would prefer that we go in another direction.

No wonder Hue likes him so much.

If you call trying to trade a 2nd and 3rd for McCarron not knowing whether he'd become a free agent or not a screw up?.....yes, ...yes that's exactly what I mean.

Cleveland Browns: How good is AJ McCarron, Terry's Talkin' -- Terry Pluto

Updated 11:03 AM; Posted 7:25 AM

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2018/02/cleveland_browns_how_good_is_a.html



By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

terrypluto2003@yahoo.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Is AJ McCarron any good?

No one really knows. But the Cincinnati Bengals backup quarterback is now a free agent...

Suddenly he is going to be paid like a starting NFL quarterback, even though he has only three starts in three years.

Such is the desperation for a decent quarterback who avoids self-destruction on the field. That's what led the Cleveland Browns to desperately offer a second- and a third-round pick in 2018 to the Bengals at the trading deadline. The trade fell apart, which was probably good for the Browns, because McCarron won his grievance against the NFL and became an unrestricted free agent.

Let's think about what might have happened.

1. If the Browns had traded a second- and third-round pick for McCarron, he still would have been free to sign with any team at the end of last season.

2. If the Browns traded for McCarron, the team would have had him for a seven-game audition. He and the team would have gotten to know each other. That possibly could have helped the Browns re-sign him.

3. McCarron has a relationship with Browns coach Hue Jackson. They were together in Cincinnati in 2015 when McCarron was a rookie. So it was no surprise McCarron wanted the deal to happen.

ABOUT THE MARKET

Is McCarron a viable NFL starting quarterback? The answer is yes, especially when you look at the market.

1. McCarron probably won't frequently throw the ball to the other team. In 2015, he started three games when Andy Dalton was injured -- throwing six TD passes compared to two interceptions. He completed 65 percent of his passes.

2. Jimmy Garopolo was a second-round pick in the 2014 draft by the New England Patriots. He started only two games for the Patriots. For his very limited career with New England as Tom Brady's backup, Garoppolo was 63-of-94 (65 percent) with five TDs and zero interceptions.

3. Garoppolo was traded at mid-season to the San Francisco 49ers. He won all five of his starts for the 49ers and turned that into the biggest quarterback contract in the NFL. That will change when Kirk Cousins and some others sign in the next few months.

4. But Garoppolo's success will probably help the market for McCarron, even though Garoppolo always was rated higher. Some teams will wonder, "What if AJ can come close to what Jimmy G. did for the 49ers?"

5. ESPN and others have compared McCarron to Mike Glennon, who signed a three-year, $45 million deal with the Chicago Bears last spring. It included $18 million guaranteed.

6. I bet McCarron receives far more. Glennon was 5-13 as a starter with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He did throw 30 TD passes compared to 15 interceptions, an excellent ratio. He completed only 59 percent of his passes. Most teams considered him nothing more than a backup. There was enough bad tape on him from those 18 starts to scare a lot of teams. The video is limited on McCarron, and it's not alarming.

7. The Browns have more than $100 million on their salary cap, so they can pay and pay big. A few other teams -- perhaps the New York Jets, Denver Broncos or Arizona Cardinals -- could pursue him.

8. Supposedly, McCarron wants to go somewhere he can start immediately -- and feel the commitment of the organization behind him.

9. Glennon was shocked when the Bears signed him then drafted Mentor's Mitchell Trubisky with the No. 2 pick. Glennon started four games. He was 1-3, then lost his job to Trubisky.

10. Odds are the Browns will draft a quarterback with their No. 1 or No. 4 pick in the draft. Will McCarron see that as a repeat of Glennon/Trubisky and avoid Cleveland? That's an interesting question.

McCARRON AND THE 2014 DRAFT

1. I went back to McCarron's performance at Alabama. He started from 2011-13, winning national titles in 2011 and 2012. He was on a team with the best college coach of this age (Nick Saban) and the roster was loaded with future NFL players.

2. McCarron gave Saban things he prizes in a quarterback. He prepared. He could be trusted. He didn't throw the ball to the other team. He was poised under pressure. He could handle the big stage of Alabama football, which has ruined more than a few quarterbacks.

3. The raw data showed McCarron throwing 77 TD passes compared to 15 interceptions in three seasons. He completed 67 percent of this passes.

4. I found ESPN's Mel Kiper's final QB ratings before the 2014 draft. Here they are, in order:

Johnny Manziel
Blake Bortles
Derek Carr
Teddy Bridgewater
Tom Savage
McCarron
Garoppolo

5. So for fans who say the Browns should just follow Kiper's ratings, it would not have been a good idea when looking for a quarterback in 2014.

6. Here is where those quarterbacks were drafted: Bortles (3), Manziel (22), Bridgewater (32), Carr (36), Garoppolo (62), Savage (135) and McCarron (164).

7. Not only did Kiper rate McCarron as the No. 6 quarterback in the 2014 draft, so did ESPN draft expert Todd McShay.

ABOUT THE BROWNS

1. We'll be spending a lot of the off-season talking about current NFL quarterbacks who are or could possibly be available. Remember that it's rare a truly good NFL quarterback become a free agent. Teams simply don't allow that to happen.

2. Kirk Cousins is pretty good and seems destined to be the highest-paid quarterback in NFL history when free agency opens March 14. Washington could actually give Cousins a franchise tag for $34 million. It would be the third year in a row for him to be franchised.

3. Hard to believe Washington would do that after trading for Alex Smith. It's possible they'd franchise Cousins and try to trade him, but that gets very complicated.

4. Cousins became Washington's full-time starter three years ago. His record is 24-23 in that span. He's completed 65 percent of his passes, 81 TDs compared to 36 interceptions. The stats seem like he should have won more games, and it points to some other weaknesses with the team.

5. Cousins made the 2016 Pro Bowl. In other words, he's above average. He'd make a big difference to the 0-16 Browns. But he's not elite -- although he will be paid like it. That's why I don't anticipate the Browns being the spot where he lands, especially because the 30-year-old Cousins wants to go where he has a chance to win.

6. As for Nick Foles, I doubt the Philadelphia Eagles will trade him. He is under contract for 2018. Carson Wentz is coming off major knee surgery and it's possible he won't be ready for the 2018 opener. The defending Super Bowl champs would not be wise to trade the Super Bowl MVP and leave themselves vulnerable to Wentz having a setback or not being fully healthy.

7. Case Keenum (one good year), Sam Bradford (major knee problems) and Teddy Bridgewater (major knee problems) are all Minnesota Vikings quarterbacks and all free agents. The Vikings need to keep at least one of them. They all have question marks -- even if Bridgewater and Bradford are now supposed to be healthy.

8. One fan suggested the Browns sign Ryan Fitzpatrick. Another suggested Colin Kaepernick. Another suggested Josh McCown. Another suggested Matt Moore. Sigh! Why not mention former Browns QBs Brock Osweiler, Brandon Weeden and Derek Anderson -- all of them are free agents, too!

9. I've liked Tyrod Taylor a bit. He's not a free agent, but Buffalo might let him go. In the past, Browns general manager John Dorsey has liked (and once signed) Chase Daniel.

10. I spent a lot of time discussing McCarron because of his suddenly becoming an unrestricted free agent. But it's also because the pool of available quarterbacks tends not to be very exciting -- and that's why McCarron will indeed receive a very healthy paycheck.

I have suggested Matt Moore and Pluto can sigh all he wants, but I will tell you why I suggested him.

If we draft Rosen w/the first overall pick, he will be ready to start day one. I don't want to bring in a vet who will keep him on the bench.

I also think that Moore has won some games in this league and can readily accept his backup role. He will bring some stability to the qb room.

I think Moore can help mentor Rosen and Kizer. I think he can come in and be decent if our starter gets hurt. I don't think he will need to start to help.

Now, if we don't draft Rosen, than I would no longer want Moore. I would want a vet to start because I don't think any of the other qbs in this draft are ready to step in and start day one.

Signing a QB that isn't a threat is shear stupidity. If you want an extra coach, hire an extra QB coach.

"He'll suck enough for Rosen to start right away." is a horrible plan and especially horrible if Rosen struggles in pre-season.

If Rosen is all of that and a bag of chips a vet like Josh McCown who could also help coach Rosen, shouldn't scare anybody.

Just because Rosen's mechanics are good, that does not make him a week 1 starter.

What happens when we follow that plan and Rosen gets his brains scrambled in preseason?

Dorsey was part of the team that drafted Aaron Rodgers when they had Brett Favre and part of the bunch that drafted Patrick Mahomes when they already had Alex Smith.

Let's just give up pretending that we are trying in FA if we are afraid of giving Rosen any competition. I don't think Dorsey likes Rosen anyway.

A.J McCarron is only a threat, really, because Hue Jackson is infatuated with him. McCarron is unproven, largely inexperienced, a poor fit for Haley's scheme and is going to be wildly expensive.

McCown threw 2,900 yards, 18 touchdowns and 9 interceptions last year in 12-and-a-half games. Not great, but pretty damn good. He's a great fit for what Haley does, as is Kizer, who one would expect to show progress from year one to year two.

McCown also comes cheap on a one year deal. We get the development, on both fronts, and we give ourselves options without handcuffing ourselves.

I like that better than throwns $70M at McCarron.

I agree. I'm not a McCown fan but he's really not any worse than McCarron or Cousins and won't require a huge contract.


It also seems significant that the backup quarterback on the team with the worst offense in the league could command that much money. Are teams really overpaying that much for barely average play or are the Bengals really that stupid?

Can you make a post w/out insulting someone?