DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Your Choice for Brown's Starting QB

I appreciate the apology. Honestly, my intent was to talk football. If we were at a pub, with a pint of beer and you said the above on QBs etc. I would have commented exactly the same way as I posted and we would have had a discussion about it. Nothing more, nothing less. Please don't assume otherwise. I have not intent to get into arguments about the Browns. We may agree or disagree. But, that is what happens when you discuss.

It's cool. I was just irritated after reading one poster's comments on few threads about how dumb the rest of us "fans" are and how smart he is. Especially given the history of his evaluations.

Let me regroup.

Alright, let me try to address some of your points. I'm a math guy and I like bullet points, but let me see if I can do this????

--Lamar: I think he is inaccurate and I think he doesn't read coverages quick enough. I don't consider him a guy you would draft in the top 5.

--Mayfield: I think he is short and more short qbs fail than succeed. I think he has some character and maturity issues. I think he plays in a conference that is notorious for guys putting up huge numbers and not even coming close to being decent in the NFL. I think his footwork is a travesty. I think the Browns should not dare pick such a risky player.

--Kizer: I haven't given up on him. However, I don't want him starting next year. He is so freaking inaccurate and he is so so slow in reading coverages and going through his progressions. We need to win some games next year.

--AJ: He has a weak arm and is a poor athlete. He doesn't deal well w/a strong pass rush. Sorry, but that isn't my kind of qb. He is similar to Kessler. Blah!

McCown: I like Josh and wish he was still on the team. I just don't want him as our starter. We need someone more dynamic. Additionally, he has never lasted a full 16 game season in his career.

Tyrod: He holds the ball longer than any qb in the NFL and he is inaccurate.

I am not asking you or anyone to agree w/my takes, but those are my takes.

Blake Bortles extension has Cleveland Browns implications

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/2/25/...ns-implications

On Saturday, the Jacksonville Jaguars gave a three-year contract extension to quarterback Blake Bortles. According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, the deal is worth a total of $54 million, with $26.5 million in guarantees.

The deal solves a salary cap issue the Jaguars were staring down, having chosen to exercise Bortles’ fifth-year option last offseason. In 2018, Bortles was set to cost over $19 million against the cap, an amount that was fully guaranteed for injury. With Bortles having recently undergone wrist surgery, he would have been unable to pass a physical by March 14, the date in which the salary would be officially on the books. By extending him on a modest deal, the Jaguars were able to save $9 million this year while also not inextricably tying themselves to a quarterback who, for most of his career, was not considered among the best in the league.

Schefter also noted that the extension means “Jacksonville [is] out of the QB market.” And while that’s not necessarily the case—the Jaguars could certainly target the position in April’s draft to serve as Bortles insurance (and potentially as his successor)—it does seem to appear Jacksonville won’t be major players in free agency when it comes to targeting quarterbacks.

That’s great news for the cash-rich Browns, who are still trying to solve their longstanding quarterback issues and may do so via a combination of free agency and the draft. Jacksonville’s decision about Bortles means one less suitor for the services of Washington’s Kirk Cousins, who is expected to be the most well-paid of the free agents at the position.

And even if Cousins isn’t in the Browns’ plans, they also have a better shot of landing other expected free agents at the position, such as one of the Minnesota Vikings’ trio of Case Keenum, Sam Bradford or Teddy Bridgewater or A.J. McCarron, whom the Browns had trade interest in just months ago. There is also less of a threat of the Jaguars wanting to trade up in April’s draft to snag another quarterback, meaning that the Browns don’t necessarily have to spring for the position with the No. 1 overall pick and could wait until they pick again at No. 4.

While the Bortles extension does not eliminate all obstacles to the Browns’ pursuit of Cousins or other free agent quarterbacks, it does knock one off of the list. Jacksonville has provided enough of a vote of confidence in Bortles that they won’t be among those seeking a free-agency upgrade at the quarterback position.

In bold above...this illustrates one of the inherent difficulties with communicating in writing vs. in person. There's no eye contact, tone of voice, body language etc. to help convey the message and give it context. It's easy to misinterpret.

Foles or Taylor and Trade 1 and 4?

You gotta be kidding.

That's the LEAST productive, LEAST impact thing we could possibly do.

On top of that, you just blew at least one of our 2nd rounders for Foles. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we'll get it back moving down.

I know it's your OPINION, but MY OPINION says YOUR Opinion BLOWS.

That's yet another Let's Outsmart the NFL tactic.

You can breakdown your QB plays all you want,, but I GUARANTEE you that either Darnold or Rosen are going #1 in this draft, and you just wanna GIVE them AWAY? Unbelievable.

Great post, lol.

What are you Vers sycophant? Vers Jr?

Your post begins with BS and somehow gets worse from there.

Quote where I said trade 1 and 4?

I would respond further but the tone of your post well....it says it all.

Good convo.

"If it's me, I sign Nick Foles or Tyrod Taylor and listen to offers for #1 and #4"

What the hell is that supposed to mean other than you're looking to move out of 1 or 4. Or both.

Yeah, I crazy disagree with you so I'm Vers' Brother. Love it.

Lol, let's not let a little thing like the actual definition of words get in the way of your post.

I mean...you do realize that listening to offers isn't the same thing as accepting offers?

And yes getting a bridge QB that can actually win games makes sense to most people.

That is the point right? To actually win games and play competitive football?

Your suggestion was to draft Darnold and sign a vet QB that doesn't play right?

And you come at me on your last BS post?

Lol, no. Great posts. Keep em coming. Really.

If we signed Foles or Cousins, I would consider a trade out of #1.

If we draft a QB at 1, I would listen to offers for #4.

Both spots could bring a bonanza of picks.

exactly my thought too

It all hinges on who (if?) we sign at QB as an FA. Cousins is not a bridge QB, he is a starter for the next 5-7 years. Therefore no need to pick a QB at #1. Sign a true bridge QB, then use the first pick on your choice of QB's. Glad I'm not the one making these decisions...

Yeah, if we sign Cousins there's no need to draft a QB at 1/4 ... sell one of those picks and take Barkley IMO

It's really not a difficult decision. People are simply overthinking it or in some cases trying to present themselves as the smartest person in the room. That's how the FO of this franchise has been ran for many years now. Trade down to fill the roster while passing on QB's and impact players. Taking the third and fourth rated QB's after convincing ourselves that's somehow going to solve the problem.

The only QB that may end up on the market in free agency that would preclude you from drafting a QB at #1 is Cousins. If we don't sign Cousins, you get the golden opportunity to pick your chosen player at the QB position in a talented QB class, you simply don't wait to take one of the leftovers by saying "insert name here".

NFL history has shown that's simply not how the process works. When the opportunity presents itself, you don't refuse to use it by hoping the leftovers will taste good. These QB's aren't as close as the media and some fans wish to paint it after the top 2.

IMO J\C

Landing a decent bridge QB is no 1 priority once that is done drat Barkly at 1 and there will probably be 3 of the top 4 prospects left in the 4 round simple

Over and over, I keep looking at the QBs in this draft and I can't pass on Mayfield. I'd be very happy with AJ, Barkley at 1 and Mayfield at 4.

Mayfield intrigues me.

Plan A. Cousins, Front load the deal so that he does not handicap up when it is time to retain our own FA's when the time comes.

Plan B. Teddy B. He is young and if healthy could lead this franchise for a number of years at a reasonable price that would allow us to continue to pick up key pieces via FA while also keeping our own players.

Plan A & B allow us to not draft a QB in this draft allowing us to draft more pieces to build this team correctly.

Plan C. draft Rosen at 1. He seeems like the best QB in the draft.

Is it just me or is Josh Allen very similar to Deshone Kizer???? I do not understand the hype. Big athletic QB with a rocket arm but accuracy issues. I thought we already had that on our roster.

I don't understand the hype either.

Me too...but I don't really get the Rosen hype either. Injuries, opponents, frame, mouth...I just remember a lot of throws at or near the LOS. I dunno...I'm no expert, but I don't see what the Rosen-supporters see...or not to enough of a level to make me comfortable with drafting the guy #1.

The film.

With Rosen, his mechanics are so good that a lot of media types are going to see him as more NFL ready.

While good mechanics certainly help to being ready, that isn't all that's needed.

. He says the Browns will strike quickly on a veteran QB

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/02/hue_jackson_sounds_like_its_qb.html

Teams can begin negotiating with free agents on March 12, and sign them on March 14. But "preliminary inquiries'' often take place in the hallways of the combine and in the bars and restaurants in Indy. Jackson acknowledged that the Browns will have to act quickly to land a starter.

"If there's somebody you really want, you've got to make sure you have the ability to put him on your team,'' he said. "Yes, I do (think we'll strike fast).''

He added that once they settle on their veteran, "you don't want it to be a competition.''

9. He's trade-weary

In the past two season, the Browns have traded down and away from Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson. Jackson is tired of trades, even though that No. 4 pick could fetch a boatload of picks.

"Yes, I am (tired of it),'' he said. "Let's draft players. Again, if it's the right fit for us and it helps our football team, we'll do whatever we feel is best and I think that's important too."

Rosen is 21 and 2 weeks old. Any talk about his frame is ludicrous. Certainly very few people here had the same frame at 25 as they did when they were 21. And those posters never had a modern day NFL workout regiment behind them.

Not only that, but Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady all have similar builds and have rarely missed games.

I do think Rosen's concussions are a concern, but I am not really worried about his physique.

Similar size for me, but from age 25 to 32. That's where my frame grew. By about 55 pounds, lol. And by Jesus, it's a war maintaining my weight under 200 pounds now, lol



This I agree with. I just don't understand how all these supposed experts have Rosen dropping the way they do. Funny how this can happen from January to March, so quickly. I wonder if it's inside info that we just don't know about or......... are they getting lost in storylines.

Cause I watch the tape, and Rosen stands out. He's stood out for three years. And on the tape, honestly, the closest thing I see to that level (on film) is Baker Mayfield. I'm working on coming around on Darnold, cause there's something about him that makes me want him to be the guy, but he's pretty darn inconsistent.

Verses Texas, he looked great. Then I saw tape verses Utah (only made it through the 1st quarter) and he threw two straight passes, that should have been interceptions, to the same spot, in the same quarter.

But there's just something about Darnold that I like. So I'm working on coming around. I just need more time (I hope, lol)



Those concussions are really nerve wrecking though. Wish it was as simple as a different helmet or something to fix.



EDIT: One thing I will say is that whoever the Front Office takes at 1 (assuming it's a QB), I don't think I'll walk off a cliff or anything. Gotta at least give the new FO a chance, so even if it's Allen, I'll be excited.

This team can only get better. So I'm looking forward to at least one win next year

If they do that I'll be somberly excited. Can one be both? lol

Yeah, I think Pete was stating an obvious thing that he knows won't be done but using it as an example of his team loyalty.

Honestly, I don't know.

I just have gotta hope these guys know more than me.

My draft track record isn't the greatest. Sad thing being, many of the guys I wanted, the Browns actually drafted. Coleman, Richardson, Gilbert, Johnny, Brady. I was high on Weeden too. I mean, he looked good at Oklahoma State

The film of him on the bench with a bum shoulder? His surgically repaired throwing shoulder? The film with him on the bench with a concussion? The film of him watching the Cactus Bowl? The film of him being as mobile as Derrick Anderson? I'm leery of guys who can't stay on the field in college suddenly being able to do so in the pros...where escaping the beating is even more of a challenge.

He has remarkable little to show for his career as a starter as far as staying on the filed and winning football games.

He is very skilled and likely the best passer in the draft...when he is actually on the filed.

I'm leery of this guy...plus he has four names Joshua Ballinger Lippincott Rosen. So there's that.

Really, the one quarterback who could easily begin the season as the starter would be Mayfield. Then maybe Rosen or Jackson. Guys like Darnold or Allen would benefit more by sitting out a year.

I hope it changes, but the closer we get to the draft the more I feel like Darnold will be the pick. Might be a fine QB and I hope it works out but Mayfield is easily the better pick.

Josh Rosen can move in the pocket. He is not a scrambler, but he is very good at buying time in the pocket. I know some posters have said he is a statue in the pocket, but that isn't true. I can provide links if you are interested.

I know you are high on Mayfield. I and I like him a lot too. But - if this statement was actually factual, then 'easily' all the NFL teams would have the same perspective, scouts too, and even the media talking heads. I think you do a disservice to your view on Mayfield with this sort of black and white rhetoric.

Regarding starting QB - I think nearly everyone is on board with a bridge QB. The trouble I see is that there might only be one or two true legit bridge QB's ... Brees and McCown. That's due to their age. Bridgewater, AJ, Keenum ... they don't want to come to a team drafting a QB#1 overall. All the talk in the world about how they can keep their job if they perform is going to mean nothing ... this isn't Aaron Rodgers who was taken in the mid 20's ... we're talking about a franchise picking their future savior with the first overall pick in the draft. That pick is going to play year 2. He probably will play year 1 at some point. Maybe I am wrong - but can someone name a #1 overall pick that didn't start by their second season that wasn't a result of injury? Maybe Bradford might be an option ... he probably stay healthy long enough for there to be a QB controversy - plus I think he'd a be a pretty cerebral and professional QB for our rookie to mentor under.

I understand what you're saying...

The thing is, drafting a QB is mostly about projection. I believe that Mayfield is the best QB today and I project he will be the best QB tomorrow.

In other words, what's going on now is that teams are trying to project which QB well have the best career. I don't think the question is whether or not Mayfield will be good, but rather if someone is going to be better.

Guys like Darnold, Allen, or Rosen may drafted higher because their respective team believes they can make them the best.

Contrary to what some believe, I think Mayfield is the safest QB pick in the draft because of what he brings today. But I know there are people who believe the ceiling for Rosen or Darnold may be higher. I don't necessarily agree.

Mayfield may be the 10th or 12th rated player in the draft or 3rd or 4th rated QB (by someone important), but I believe him to be the best fit for our franchise. I believe he has a very high ceiling. And maybe we are just splitting hairs debating about Drew Brees or Eli Manning...

I don't know if anyone has read Steve Young's book, but I think there are similarities there. Not necessarily their play on the field but their attitude. Young was driven by people telling him he can't do this or can't do that and he was afraid of failure. I feel Mayfield is similar. Read like the first 6-7 chapters of Young's book and you might be as excited as I at the prospect of having Mayfield in Cleveland.

Considering the fact he actually didn't miss that many games, you certainly are being very selective about what film you're watching. lmao

Huh ... they actually filmed that .... ....

Do you EVER say anything PRODUCTIVE? Lol. I don't either. Hehehe.

I'm officially doubling down, no QB in the first round

I'm taking Barkley at #1, Fitzpatrick at #4. I can't accept a 50% success rate picking a 1st round qb, I'm drafting the best players. I have to nail both of these picks. I may be jaded, I just want players.

We have to build culture