DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Despite holdout, Quinn still hard at work

So who does everyone hate more, Condon or the Poston brothers?

Currently??? Condon

Overall though I'm not a fan of the Postons... I've never really heard anything too negative on Condon.

Late July, early August doesn't particularly strike me as offseason vacation time for NFL agents..

GM you are talking about greed and all that...WHAT ABOUT THE GREED OF THE TEAM????? you say Brady is hurting the team...what about the FO??? Aren't they hurting the team by not offering something that both sides can agree upon???

The plain and simple fact of the matter is that we DO NOT KNOW exactly what is being discussed so it is IGNORANT to choose EITHER side....

And frankly GM you are wrong....just because he was picked at #22 does not mean he isn't worth more than that(heck it doesn't even mean he is worth that much). Regardless of where he was picked...he should be paid for what he can bring to the team. I mean Tom Brady isn't being paid like a 6th rounder.....And though he hasn't proved it yet, Quinn has to make sure that if he does bring certain things to the Browns...that he is compensated for them and not treated as something less.

Brady has to do what is best for he and his family....Because you are naive as hell if you think that if Brady starts and does well this year or next year that the Browns are just going to tear that contract up and automatically pay him like Peyton Manning....Sure Quinns second Contract may be where he says you get your big money from.....But first you have to get there. And that is at least 5 years away...Til that time you have to make sure you get what is fair value for your services while doing what is best for your family...And there isn't a soul around here that would take just 1 million if he KNEW he could get 2.

And just because he isn't signed it doesn't mean that he is the only reason for it. You are assuming the Browns are making a fair deal....You assume the kid is being greedy.....But you don't know what exactly is being discussed.

There is only one fact that we do know...Just one....And that is that the 2 sides have not come to an agreement on a contract. That is IT...Nothing Else....Everything else is speculation and assumption...I don't care what the reporters say...They weren't in the room and they report on heresay.

Browns GM frustated by Quinn holdout

Friday, August 3, 2007
BY Steve Doerschuk
REPOSITORY SPORTS WRITER

Quarterback Brady Quinn’s holdout — six days, nine missed practices and counting - has grown old for Browns General Manager Phil Savage.

“You have to have two sides that are willing to engage,’’ Savage said this morning. “That’s what happened with the Joe Thomas thing. There were talks all summer, and then in the 11th hour, basically in six hours, we got that thing done.

“What we did in six hours with Joe Thomas seems to be taking almost two weeks with, you know, our other player.’’

Savage spoke on the Browns’ radio flagship, WTAM.

Quinn, a No. 22 overall pick, is represented by a group headed by Tom Condon. Thomas, a No. 3 overall pick, signed a six-year contract Friday, in time for him to make the first full-squad practice. Thomas’ agent, Peter Schaffer, negotiated a deal voidable to five years, with a reported $23 million in guaranteed money.

Savage hinted frustration at being painted as stubborn by Condon’s group.

“In regards to the way the Browns do business,’’ he said, “I don’t think if you go back over the last 2 1/2 years we could have extended Orpheus Roye, Andra Davis, Leigh Bodden and Steve Heiden, guaranteed more money to any rookie lineman in the history of the league, paid for LeCharles Bentley, went out and got Eric Steinbach ...’’

Continuing the point, Savage alluded to rookie second-round pick Eric Wright, who also is represented by Schaffer and signed the same day. Savage indicated the Browns had one hard proposal in mind for Wright, and Schaffer had another.

“We actually split the difference and added a little bit on Eric Wright to get him in on time,” Savage said.

Alluding to the Quinn camp, Savage said, “All of a sudden the Browns are gonna shift gears and try to extract blood from the quarterback that we picked, that we say is gonna be the face of the franchise, that we say is the future of this team? It makes no sense. It’s not logical. I think people are smart enough to figure this out.’’

Savage reiterated mild optimism that a deal with Quinn can get done soon.

“We feel like we’re on the same neighborhood but not on the same street yet,’’ he said. “I don’t think it’s so much the money. It’s how it’s gonna be gotten to, playing time percentages, what happens in year 4 and 5.’’

Earlier this week, Head Coach Romeo Crennel gave a strong signal that the holdout has knocked Quinn out of a chance to start the Sept. 9 opener against Pittsburgh.

This morning, Savage said the brass has loosely agreed on a schedule for deciding whether Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson should go into the season as the starter.

“We’d like to get through that first preseason game (Aug. 11) and then maybe be able to make a decision,’’ Savage said. “Then if not the first (preseason game), then the second. But I think clearly now it’s Charlie and Derek, and we’ll see how it turns out.’’

The Browns have a single practice today.

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t's how it's gonna be gotten to, playing time percentages, what happens in year 4 and 5.

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this is the part i HATE...

if Brady is just the least terrible QB on terrible team during the years in question, he gets paid some ridiculous bonus b/c of playing time %?!! dumbest escalator a team could ever agree to, IMO ...

Brady Quinn, it's time to sign deal
Joe Thomas sets positive example

Published on Friday, Aug 03, 2007



Dear Brady Quinn:

As you work out in Arizona or wherever, have you dared to ask yourself, ''Just what am I doing?''

Do you realize that your holdout makes it seem like you have an overblown sense of entitlement? That you not only are hurting yourself by holding out, but also not helping the team that saved you from even a bigger free-fall in the NFL Draft?

Brady, the Browns picked you at No. 22.

It doesn't matter that they once said you were among the top five players on their draft board. Or that you thought you should, as a quarterback, go higher than 22nd. Or that your college coach Charlie Weis thinks you are the next Tom Brady. Or that you went to Notre Dame.

You still were picked 22nd.

The only reason you didn't sink lower is the Browns made a deal with the Dallas Cowboys to stop your skid at 22. As you sat there forever in that room sweating in your suit on national TV during draft day, did you ever wish you had gone fishing with Joe Thomas instead?

Some people have suggested your strategy might be to wait until next year and go back into the draft. You went 22nd when you did play. Where will you be drafted after sitting out a year?

How stupid does all this have to become before you ask yourself, ''Is it me, or is it the Browns? Who is out of line?''

Or is this driven by your agent, who never imagined you'd drop to 22? You need to ask, ''Who is in charge of my negotiations, and what really is important to me?''

A way to assess your situation is to consider the team's recent history of signing draft picks. The Browns came to terms with first-rounder Joe Thomas and second-rounder Eric Wright just before camp opened. They signed first-rounder Kamerion Wimbley and second-rounder D'Qwell Jackson before camp a year ago.

To sign Thomas, they bucked the whispers from some other teams about how they should pay him a little less at No. 3 because he's a lineman. Supposedly, an offensive linemen should not be valued as highly as a ''skilled player'' such as a quarterback or a wide receiver.

The Browns gave Joe Thomas No. 3 money because he was the No. 3 pick. At $23 million, it's the most guaranteed money ever given a rookie offensive lineman. They signed LeCharles Bentley and Eric Steinbach to two of the largest free-agent contracts in NFL history for offensive linemen.

Thomas gets it. He signed. He's in camp and close to earning a starting spot. He's earning the respect of the other veterans, who see him sweat with them and appreciate the fact that he's asking for no special favors simply because he's a first-rounder.


Brady, you have said that you want to be ''protected'' in your contract in case you become a starter. Here's a bulletin: You hold out, you don't have to worry about starting this year.

If you had come to camp on time, gotten hot and played well in the preseason, you would have started soon, if not Opening Day. Now, you are a deep No. 3 on the depth chart and soon will be looking up at Ken Dorsey with no chance of competing with Charlie Frye or Derek Anderson for the job.

This is not about putting you down as a player. Obviously, the Browns believe you eventually can start, or why deal for you? They made their first offer to you May 23. They are available to talk, and your negotiations have had far more sputters and stalls than starts.

Ever consider telling your agent to fly to Cleveland, sit down in a room with the Browns and not leave until a deal is done? With a flick of the pen, you will become an instant millionaire. It's not hard to do this you look at what the 22nd pick received a year ago, add 10 to 15 percent, then get on the field.

Tom Brady was a sixth-round pick, and now he's one of the highest paid players in the NFL. He got his money after he went out and earned it. Now it's time for you to sign, then go out and do the same. noweb


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Terry Pluto can be reached at [Email]terrypluto2003@yahoo.com.[/Email] Sign up for Terry's free, weekly e-mail newsletter ''Direct from Pluto'' at www.ohio.com.

Good Article Shep

This Holdout Crap Is Getting Old, There Is No Reason For It What So Ever.

Pete, Pete, Pete I love it when you talk dirty to me

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you say Brady is hurting the team...what about the FO??? Aren't they hurting the team by not offering something that both sides can agree upon???

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Not if what Brady is asking for is way out of line. They would be hurting the team by over paying for him.

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And frankly GM you are wrong....just because he was picked at #22 does not mean he isn't worth more than that(heck it doesn't even mean he is worth that much). Regardless of where he was picked...he should be paid for what he can bring to the team. I mean Tom Brady isn't being paid like a 6th rounder...

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Brady was paid like a 6th rounder when he was drafted.

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And there isn't a soul around here that would take just 1 million if he KNEW he could get 2.

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and their is not a soul around here that would not jump at the chance to sign a contract that ensures them at least 8 million dollars to do something they love to do.

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And just because he isn't signed it doesn't mean that he is the only reason for it. You are assuming the Browns are making a fair deal....You assume the kid is being greedy.....But you don't know what exactly is being discussed.

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Yes I am assuming, the browns are making a fair deal. But I am not basing that on anything the media is reporting.

web page

Q&A | Brady Quinn
QB says contract demands reasonable
Rookie uncertain when he will join Browns
Friday, August 3, 2007 6:34 AM
By James Walker

The Columbus Dispatch
BLOG: Dispatch reporter James Walker wants your take on Brady Quinn's holdout
BEREA, Ohio -- Quarterback Brady Quinn knows that much is being said about his holdout from Cleveland Browns training camp, now in its eighth day.

Quinn, a Dublin native who played at Notre Dame, was given a big jolt at the NFL draft when he slid down the board before the Browns traded to take him at No. 22. The Browns' other draft picks have signed, including offensive tackle Joe Thomas, who was taken third.

During his holdout, Quinn has been working out at the Athletes' Performance Institute in Tempe, Ariz., trying to stay ready for when he eventually joins the team.

In an interview yesterday, Quinn discussed the details of his holdout and what has been the toughest part of missing training camp.



Question: Is this the longest week of your life?

Answer: Pretty much, yeah. It's tough. Obviously, I don't want to be in the situation that I'm in. But when you look at the situation, it's a long-term contract. It's something that other guys right now who are holding out, that are veterans, are doing, because they didn't like their first contract or something previous. I look at (Kansas City Chiefs running back) Larry Johnson and the kind of situation that he's in right now. I don't want to be in that situation. I would rather sign the right deal the first time.

Q: Is it true that you're asking for too much as the 22nd pick?

A: A lot of people have said things like, "He's asking for top-10 money," or whatever. That's not the case at all. They're pretty uninformed. Right now the big issue with the contract, more or less, is the incentives. If I do in fact become the (starting) quarterback in the later years of the contract, all we're asking for is starting quarterback money. That seems to be the dispute.

Q: How far apart are the two parties and has there been any recent progress?

A: I don't know. And to be honest with you, I'll ask (agent) Tom (Condon) a few questions, but with everything dealing with the contract I try to stay out of it. Tom gives me the heads up of where we're at. And as of right now, I think they've made a little bit of progress, but I don't think they're close.

Q: How have you been staying ready in Arizona?

A: Pretty much I've been coming out and working out twice a day. I'm running, conditioning, that sort of thing. I'm weightlifting. I've been out here doing routes with Larry Johnson and a couple other wide receivers who are out here. That's kind of where I've been. Usually at night I'll study a real important piece of the playbook and watch a lot of film.

Q: Has Johnson or any other players given you advice on how to handle the business side of football?

A: Yeah, a lot of guys have. There's a ton of guys who have been in the league, and the biggest thing that they said is, "Hey, this is the only guaranteed thing you have in your life right now. And you want to make sure you do it right and you want to make sure you put yourself in a situation where you can support your family." I think it's impressive because it is guys who have been through it before. It's just tough because I'm competitive. I want to get in there and I want to compete.

Q: Do you miss the camaraderie from your teammates?

A: That's probably the toughest part. I called some of the other rookies and some of the other vets. I've talked to (receiver) Braylon Edwards and (quarterback) Ken Dorsey and other guys that I've become close with, and it's tough not having that camaraderie and the opportunity to get to know them even better.

Q: The contract holdout is a week long and counting. How much longer can this draw out?

A: I don't know. I think it's a give-and-take. It's tough to answer. But what we're asking for is reasonable.

jwalker@dispatch.com

Q: How far apart are the two parties and has there been any recent progress?

A: I don't know. And to be honest with you, I'll ask (agent) Tom (Condon) a few questions, but with everything dealing with the contract I try to stay out of it. Tom gives me the heads up of where we're at. And as of right now, I think they've made a little bit of progress, but I don't think they're close.

Does this seem a little odd to anyone else? It makes it sound like I know more about his contract negotiations than he does. Which I don't believe for a second.

Up until this point I couldn't have cared less about when Brady signed. But I'm starting to rethink that stance. And not in a good way......

I always like this one :

"make sure you put yourself in a situation where you can support your family"


This line is getting old and no longer works for most of us suckers. Time for the agents to come up with another one (load of crap).

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That right there says a lot. "How afar apart are you" answer "I don't know" If he doesn't even know how far apart they are why in the hell doesn't he pick up the phone and find out

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He answered that question when he said "I try to stay out of it."

This is not something new that's happening for the first time in history....but lots of folks are acting like it is.

I don't think anyone thinks this is an historical "first". I do think that many people expected a bit more from Quinn. Rightly or wrongly.

People are mildly upset now. In another week they will start to get genuinely pissed. Another week after that and he better hope he's better than Diam claims he is or he's gonna hear his name paired with words he didn't learn at ND.

The above is opinion only and should not be construed as fact.

I agree.....but it is rather entertaining to read what some of these people have to say.

Yes, it's very entertaining to watch people blame the FO for everything and defend Quinn and Condon and hold them blameless and say that this would already be done if a "fair" contract had been offered the first time.....without knowing what's been offered.

I know the niegborhood his parents live in, his family is anything BUT hard up on money.

if he is indeed holding out for more guarenteed money, that was elluded too in a previous story. Shame on him. But if he is asking for #22 up front money with alot of back end money for starts, games, other incentives, i would think its more of a team problem.

Although i think BQ's agent is a freaking weasel.

the number of holdouts is getting out of hand, i think the nfl should adopt a plan resembling that of the NBA, where you are picked in X spot you get X money.

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he's gonna hear his name paired with words he didn't learn at ND.

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as usual your WRONG .... Wies is a 4 letter machine .... and he spends most of his 4 letter words on his QB .... BQ has heard it all ...

when they did Wies on 20/20 during a game ..... every other word was bleeped out ... BELIEVE ME when i tell U .... he wont be hearing anything he aint heard before ...

But there is a difference between hearing them in a generic manner and being called them in a personal manner.

But I am sure the kid is tough enough...but this probably does make it a little more important Brady starts off fairly well.

The Chuck Frye and Tim Couch fans are already a bit ticked off and are going to be more than happy to dish out what they perceive their boy took.

I will support Quinn no matter how long he holds out, it pisses me off that he isn't in camp, but its his contract, life, money, and NOT his job to negotiate.

I would rather have Condon go to Berea and get this deal done...

I agree.

j/c

Quinn seems to always bring up the advice of other players in similar situations.

Unfortunately he's surrounded by a "pro-holdout" style of community out there in Arizona.

It'd be nice if he could get advice from players that could give him a different perspective on his contract,....but I guess it's unlikely that that would happen.:(

"Just last week,I heard Tab talking about how Browns fans should see the "glass as half full".

I can't remember using that term on the board in years .

Look as long as BQ hold out he's a douche-bag, pure and simple. The day he signs and officially become a Brown... is the day I open my arms to him and like anyone in my family, forgive him and rejoice.

I'm pretty consistant. You're a Brown I love you...You're not a Brown - I could care less. Thats how it is. Right now BQ is not a Brown. His agent is a piece of dirt who for all we know hates us for spurning his client Couch and throwing him to the wayside which was one of Savage's first moves!

I don't trust Condon...it don't sound fishy to anyone that Condon has NO CLIENTS out there left to negotiate and yet we can't sit down and get this done. That feedback from him make a one hour communication and negotiation feedback into 1 week. Until BQ comes out and DEMANDS his agent get him signed and in BQ will be a hold out. When BQ does that he becomes my hero and I welcome into the family.

So because I'm not pie in the sky with BQ something is fishy with you??? Confusing??? Actually I've always been on the side of our FO concerning any of our Rookies signing late. Travis Wilson I ignored cause quite frankly he was a 3rd rounder, we were deep in WR and he's a WR a position I don't rate high.

But I came down on BE when he held out...When they hold out I feel they are going against their word when they say they will get into camp on time and money is not an issue with them.

As for the negotiations with Thomas...what were Young's guaranteed money and what was Joe T? just curious. Guranteed is the contract...anything else is pretty much hokus pokus.

But all I know is that we are close to 15 guarantee money that we offerred...more than 10% of what #21 got. So we are already offerring BQ more money than 22 slot and that is because he's a QB. I agree position should be considered and I think we are making fair offer's accordingly.

And what we don't know is what Incentive bases are involved...Rogers contract with the Packers could have him getting 30 mil more I'm sure we have laid out something similar. But what I'm hearing is the more we put out there as in incentives Condon wants a pct of that Guaranteed instead of earned.

Meanwhile you got BQ going on record saying what if I'm a starter I just want to be paid like one....well that is what the incentive achievements are covering. Either he is a liar or is being mis-informed by his agent.

All I know is he needs to demand that his agent sit down and get this done...or he might be out for a long time. He might cost us a 08 first round pick as well as the 07 2nd with no return??? Who knows what Condon has in store.

All I know is when he is a Brown thats when I put on my Orange glasses...till then he don't get that respect from me.

It is that simple but for crying out loud this is not a BROWNS Half Empty or Half full situation. I'm not crying the sky is falling I'm saying we got with Frye like I have thought we would for 07 anyway and let BQ learn. I don't see the Half Empty I'm claiming for the Browns. I never have so your statement is wrong...Actually I'm still Half full cause the 07 QB situation doesn't change all that much in my eyes.

Just cause I don't agree with somebodies opinion all of a sudden I'm being a Half empty kind of guy? Where, Where have I put any whoa on the Browns expect for my fear of this going on and we lose our rights to BQ all together. Just cause I'm not in BQ's corner on this one.

I don't think I will be in any Browns corner for a hold out unless proven that we are being less than fair. But I believe even Savage out of frustration was quoted today as saying What all of a sudden we decided to SCREW the franchise QB that we chose? When we have been fair with every signed player upto this date. We decided to screw him???

Its Condon screwing BQ and us as well!
I don't like agents...they ruined baseball and they want to ruin football as well!

I am consistant.

JMHO

Well Levi signed...the most lucrative contract to any NFL OLMAN Ever.

Ya think Zona overpaid for him

Exactly my point and if you all don't think this is a spin off from the Leinart cave in...then you all are more gullible than I am

JMHO - but I know I'm right...lol

Psst ... if i recall correctly bOtch threw Timid to the curb not Opie ..... Opie had nuttin to do with Timid leaving town ...

Thanks...we're even with the Wimbley thing...lol

I still don't trust Condon - I think he's doing a diservice to your boy...when he signs he becomes our boy

No probs bro .. we just disagree on this one ... not the first time, wont be the last ..

i get a feeling the end is near ... and its just a "gut" feel ...

after he's signed the haters can move on to sumptin else to bash him for ..... *L* ..... and NO, your not a hater ...

and just so everyone knows ... i will be gone for the next week and will have no computer access ... so if sumptin happens good or bad I wont be around to bring COMMON SENSE and the TRUTH to whatever events transpire .. ....

this post is a public service message in case sumptin bad happens with BQ ... I will not be AVOIDING it I just won't be around to know it ..

GO IRI .... ERR I MEAN BROWNS ...

Have a good trip Diam.......and we won't miss you!

Maybe the Browns should send those guys to the negotiations.

I blame any Condom that dosn't work !

So it's "pure blind loyalty" instead of seeing it as a "business negotiation" on your part?

The "Browns are right" 100% of the time? The old "you're either with us or against us" strategy? We see how well that's played out on a grander scale huh?


And my "phrase" wasn't "a direct quote". When people "first started complaining" about this.........................this is a paraphrase btw...........................

.........................."two out of the three are signed so look at it that way. It's not so bad".

See,he's going to be here for "years". A few weeks one way or the other NOW to allow him to work out a deal for YEARS isn't something I think is worth "getting my panties in a bunch" about.

Of course the media and the fans pile on. Don't smother under the weight of it all Buddy.

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your fired the first bulletS and now your claiming the "who me" defense ... *LOL* ,...


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Ooooohhh Ooooohhh Ooooohhh Ooooohhh Can I claim the Johnny Cochran "Chewbacca Defense"????

That don't make no sense....If Chewbacca lives on Endor then Brady must be Paid!!!!

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I don't think I said that so I am not sure why you are quoting me